Sales

[Snatchmaster]

Two more things:

One, starting a business: Have enough money to start the business right. That means don't plan on paying yourself a salary the first year.

I have two very close friends each whom started a business. One did it on a shoestring. He managed to keep the business afloat for nine years, but he was always struggling to cover his expenses at home and at the business. He was never able to properly build his business because of a chronic cash flow problem.

My other friend got himself an investor/partner. He did all the work, the investor got 50% of the profits. But he always had the money to grow his business. As a result, he has made enough money to begin buying his partner's share of the business.


Now then,

There are 3 kinds of salespeople:

features/benefit
relationship
consultant

The first salesman runs down the litany of features/benefits and hopes enough of them fit that the prospect buys.

The second guy tries to build rapport with the prospect on the premise that the prospect will buy because she likes the salesman.

The third guy asks the prospect questions to unearth wants, needs and concerns. Only then does he tell the client how he can help her achieve her desires/avoid peril.

Which kind of DJ are you?

 

[Oxide]

Great thread!

I am going into cell phone sales and this will be very helpful.

I am going to sell Tmobile - Cingular at the Mall, a lot of people, good potential. The thing that kind of gets me it is minumum wage OR commission. so you hustle hard just to make the minum wage..then hussle more to make top bank... id rather get both.


Ill keep you posted how this goes, but if anyone got advice i am all ears.

p.s. Had another guy (SB) who sold phones stand at the booth.. a guy comes in and asks if we sell chargers.. SB goes : check my store, we might have them... the guy walks away, SB goes "if he would have gone to my store, i would try to sell him the phone, more money for me".
.
welcome to sales.

 

[Alpine]

There are some very interesting theories and excuses about sales here.

If you want it to be a 9-5 then your attitude is wrong full stop, for anything. Having said that jobs that rely on numbers instead of intelligent qualifying will eat up your time when you could be with a decent prospect or improving your sales skills.

If you are serious you will be the top earner, even in a sh1te sales job, no excuses. With that you can then move up to a better sales job because you have proven you have risen to the top even under difficult conditions/lack of training.

Read books by top salespeople (Hopkins, Schlain, Lund) , leave the NLP stuff for now, and I'm increasly coming to the conclusion that Bandler is a whack job anyway.

Take responsibility for training yourself. Ideally if a company trains you that's great, but if they don't do much or it's sh1te, you have an advantage over others if you learn yourself.

Avoid shop sales, pretty much order taker mode for most. Cut your teeth in telesales, it's tough, but you will certainly get an education.

Think long term. Don't focus on making the most for the least effort, this will keep you poor.

I started in sales 15yrs ago cold calling for vacancies with an agency. From there I went on to do more and more 'upmarket' sales with longer lead times, ultimately 6months-12 months. Yes that's right, only getting paid a year after doing the work.

Today I could give up work completely, I have no debts, own my own house and rental property. I know that if I went bankrupt tomorrow, I could walk into a sales job with the clothes on my back and in a year be earning more than most people get in five.

That's why sales is the best profession, for the right person.

 

[PVSSY-EATER]

If you read some books from a guy named, Tom Hopkins, one is, How To Master The ARt of Selling, and my favorite one, Act Like A Lamb, Sell Like A Lion...,.

go to a bookstore and request these, or telll them to order them for you, they are about 30 bucks each, and he is the best sales trainer ever............trust me................

 

[Alpine]

^^^^

Great minds...

'Read books by top salespeople (Hopkins, Schlain, Lund)'

 

[elite7]

Read the richest man in town it has a chapter on sales and is overall a good book

 

[Unbridled_Phoenix]

This thread should be stickied.

Gentlemen, a job in sales is perfect for the kind of man who comes to SS. A successful salesman embodies every quality one seeks in the pursuit of self-improvement!

Sales is the only profession where in order to become better at your job, you must become a better man. The things you learn when you come into sales whip you into shape. You must:

1. Learn everything you can about your product, industry, competition, and most importantly, your customers. Sales makes you THINK and analyze.

2. Overcome fear and rejection anxiety. This is huge, and is the real reason so many people make a stab at sales only to quit and badmouth it for the rest of their life. When you are starting out in sales, you are treated like crap all day long. You are ignored, disdained, rejected, and avoided. But like an Oak sapling, you begin to grow immensely despite your environment. You shake the fear, it doesn't bother you anymore, and you realize that if you had never gotten into sales, you would still be afraid of rejection. You see yourself differently, not as a salesman, but as a guy continually taking his balls in his hands and conquering fear, everyday.

3. You get to interact and build rapport with other people, all day long. You shoot the bull, you ask questions and you go for the sale. It is exhilarating. You also get to show your style as much as you want. I don't believe in the existence of an overdressed salesman. When I sold advertising, I would wear a suit everyday, and I got noticed. It feels great to wear a suit to work everyday, all men should know what it's like at least once in their lives.

Women go crazy for a sharp dressed man, remember?

4. You learn to take control of your mind, and only think positive thoughts. You realize that perception is a choice, and you choose to see the best in others and in situations. You become a magnetic force of positivity and self-determinism; when I get on a rant with my friends, they see my passion and it inspires them. It was my choice to enter sales that made all of this happen.

5. You create goals and strive for them. You are always pushing and seeking to grow.

As I stated before, to improve at sales is to improve at life itself. I got my start as an outside salesman at a lumberyard six years ago, and I loved it. It was more of a social sales gig, I was meeting with people but not trying to close them on the spot. It was about building partnerships, making sure we kept up our end of the deal, and doing tons of estimates as quickly and expertly as I could. I called on offices a little, but I was mainly out bullsh!tting on construction sites.

When the yard owners quit paying their suppliers and rode off with the money, I sold for an electrical manufacturer for awhile. Here I had to be more disciplined and spent a LOT of time on the phone. I became more organized and professional at this gig. My problem there was, we were making a highly niche product that just doesn't move in the volume I needed to make any money. Plus the management was a clusterfvck, I think the main lesson I took away from that job was to QUALIFY A SALES JOB LIKE A WOMAN.

As much as I believe in the power of persistence in sales, it is far more advantageous to sell a product that is in high demand and, more importantly, one that you are excited about. People buy because of emotional reasons, not logical ones, and nothing sells like FAITH. You win some, you lose some, but you only lose the ones who were never going to buy anyway if you BELIEVE in what you are selling.

My biggest realization in sales (and there have been many) is that the stereotypes which surround sales are COMPLETELY false. True, an inferior salesman will attempt to manipulate people with all sorts of tricks (from modern NLP all the way back to old school Ben Franklin 4 Corner Close stuff), but the true secret to infinite success in sales is this: You can have anything you want in the world, if you help enough other people get what they want. Zig Ziglar said it, and it is my Golden Rule of Sales.

Verily, it is the secret of LIFE ITSELF:
You solve your own problems by solving the problems of others.
You become wealthy by helping others become wealthy.
You are awarded prosperity equal to your contribution to prosperity.
AS YOU CREATE, SO YOU ARE CREATED.

It is with this mentality that I begin my career as an insurance agent/financial services associate next week. It is my first sales job with a HUGE earning potential (a $2,000,000 book pays $400,000 a year; that's my goal) and far more prestigeous than anything I've done yet. I'm also getting my commercial finance business off the ground at this time, and the sky is truly the limit there. The best part is, I know that I have EARNED my shot at what I'm getting into. I cut my teeth the way everyone else does in sales, and I have willed my way up to an esteemed position. I will soon have an office in my hometown; how cool is that?

Imagine the girl who shot you down because you weren't ambitious enough driving down the street and seeing your name/face on an office sign. I rest my case.

So have I sold you yet?

 

[synergy1]

As a principal owner for a small business that just got started, I must say I am utterly annoyed by the sales reps I have had to deal with. Basically, I am aware of the application I need, so I send in a request for a quote on a sensor package. When I get contacted back though email and phone, I never get the price out of them. So basically its a bunch of back and forth without getting what I want. They realize if they spill the beans initially and we can't afford it ( because we can't), than they have lost a lead...but for the love of god, my phone and emails are polluted by these people trying to make a buck. My solution to this is to ignore them, and than utilize field experts to directly refer us to what they use and be done with it.

I am not trying to rip on the sales profession, but rather give a glimpse to those on the other side. We don't have all the money in the world to be blowing on these products, and we don't like having our phones ( some private because we don't have company ones yet) blowing up at all hours of the day. At the same time, I really feel for you guys having to do that kind of stuff. Moreover, I respect the guys who can really make it in a dog eat dog world.

Speaking of sales, our company has to sell our ideas to the government. The only difference is they'll call us if they want to do business.

 

[Unbridled_Phoenix]

As a principal owner for a small business that just got started, I must say I am utterly annoyed by the sales reps I have had to deal with. Basically, I am aware of the application I need, so I send in a request for a quote on a sensor package. When I get contacted back though email and phone, I never get the price out of them. So basically its a bunch of back and forth without getting what I want. They realize if they spill the beans initially and we can't afford it ( because we can't), than they have lost a lead...but for the love of god, my phone and emails are polluted by these people trying to make a buck. My solution to this is to ignore them, and than utilize field experts to directly refer us to what they use and be done with it.

I am not trying to rip on the sales profession, but rather give a glimpse to those on the other side. We don't have all the money in the world to be blowing on these products, and we don't like having our phones ( some private because we don't have company ones yet) blowing up at all hours of the day. At the same time, I really feel for you guys having to do that kind of stuff. Moreover, I respect the guys who can really make it in a dog eat dog world.

Speaking of sales, our company has to sell our ideas to the government. The only difference is they'll call us if they want to do business.

synergy1, I apologize on behalf of my profession for the difficulties you encounter with salespeople.

Salesmen come from all kinds of backgrounds, and for many it is not the best fit. They may even be able to make some money, but they never see the big picture. They are the stressed-out, ulcer-ridden kind.

It is their view of the profession that makes them how they are. They are trying to makes sales instead of building profitable relationships; they are worried about commissions instead of YOUR problems, which is what they should be focusing on.

For instance, if I was dealing with your company, I would research your product/service extensively.
What's your idea?
What are your goals?
What's your market like?
Who is your competition?
Forecasts and projections?

And last of all, my gut feeling.

Many salesmen do not have the vision to look for these things. And they don't see the tremendous value of helping you get your company off the ground. If my gut feeling on your business was good, I would take every dollar of my commission out of the price and negotiate on your behalf within my own organization. I would do everything I possibly could to get our product in front of you.

Businesses are built upon mutually beneficial relationships, and you build these relationships by being the first one to stick out his hand. You give in order to receive.

synergy1, what is this business you're starting?

 

[elite7]

Awesome post

 

[backbreaker]

I really lucked out in life.

My mom does amway, she's actually pretty high up in the orgnigzation. i had to grow up listening to dexter yager and such in the car everyday from the time i was 8 until I left the house. before that she worked her way up to regional sales manager of NASE. my mom can sell. she's made a very nice life selling.

The one thing i learned growing up is that as long as you have the abaility to make people want to buy something, you will always live a comfortable life. In fact I dont' know why more people don't get in sales. A sales person that does not play around with sales and takes his job seriously, studies sales, and gets to the top of their profession will be a millionare times over.

I had a company I started when I was very young and to despite me my youth and my inexperience, I was lucky enough to where it took off.

I was lucky in alot of senses, I was not lucky in the sense where I knew or had a very good understanding on how to sell things (we sold computers).

Sales is not sitting at a car lot, having someone tell you what they want, you getting the key and hoping the like it and writing the deal up. that's not what real sales is. Sales is knowing your product, convincing your customer why your product is the best fit for that parituclar person and more so than anyhting, being presentable. Caring about the customer. Rather you are selling a 50 dollar shirt or a $25,000 website (which is the business I run now)

know your strong points and your weak points. I'm the most anal retensive person on earth. I'm extremely detailed in everything I do so i use that to my advantage. For instance, the business venture I'm in now (actually turning out to be more successful than my first) builds websites. I might not get a client but I'll be damned if i'm outworked for one. That just is not going to happen.

While I'm a tech by trade and a programmer, I'm a sales person more than anything. I can walk on any car lot in the country and within 2 months sale 25-30 cars a month, I've done it before and could do it again.

A sales person,a good one, will always be able to put food on the table.

 

[Unbridled_Phoenix]

I'm with you, backbreaker. Outside sales is where it's at; that's where you're putting it on the line. Inside sales is shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[synergy1]

Short summary is we are starting an energy company. Funding we are currently receiving is going towards a feasibility study which includes preliminary lab work, design work and some research. Pretty basic stuff. The idea is to develop cost structures for subsequent phases, so part of that is where my research has come in. Without disclosing too much, we are basically going to be developing integrated sensor packages, and I am in the process of gathering and determining what specs we need ( response time, sensitivity, and the like), so I do searches and find the product I'd like. You have to fill out a form including your email and phone along with a brief description of what you want, and I explain , perhaps foolishly, that we are a budget limited small company looking at these products. my guess is that the folks on the other end are looking at what we will need, and thus are trying to form that relationship now.

My time is scattered and limited right now so I don't get back to them. We are working on securing move government funding as we speak. On a tangent, Europe is already spending a ton of money on this sort of infrastructure, but the U.S "expresses" interest....yet they do nothing. Hard to get this stuff moving without support from those with the money and power! Money doesn't come to us, which doesn't make it to the vendors....the economy doesn't do ****. /end tangent

I think eventually I will develop good ties to my vendors. I have worked with vendors before at my last job, and was on a first name basis with the owner of the other company. The problem now is that these questions come amidst other pressing priorities which I must see through.

Businesses are built upon mutually beneficial relationships, and you build these relationships by being the first one to stick out his hand. You give in order to receive.


We had a deal cut with our CAD program. However, long term financing options are rather steep at 14% interest. Part of our long term goal is to support American vendors, so these relationships will ultimately be an important aspect to what we do.

 

[elite7]

If u check out money magazine top 50 best jobs list one is sales manager and the other is outside sales rep.Insurance broker is another its kind of like sales in my opinion .Sales is good but whats seminars have u guys attended?

 

[backbreaker]

If u check out money magazine top 50 best jobs list one is sales manager and the other is outside sales rep.Insurance broker is another its kind of like sales in my opinion .Sales is good but whats seminars have u guys attended?

hard knocks

 

[Unbridled_Phoenix]

Short summary is we are starting an energy company. Funding we are currently receiving is going towards a feasibility study which includes preliminary lab work, design work and some research. Pretty basic stuff. The idea is to develop cost structures for subsequent phases, so part of that is where my research has come in. Without disclosing too much, we are basically going to be developing integrated sensor packages, and I am in the process of gathering and determining what specs we need ( response time, sensitivity, and the like), so I do searches and find the product I'd like. You have to fill out a form including your email and phone along with a brief description of what you want, and I explain , perhaps foolishly, that we are a budget limited small company looking at these products. my guess is that the folks on the other end are looking at what we will need, and thus are trying to form that relationship now.

My time is scattered and limited right now so I don't get back to them. We are working on securing move government funding as we speak. On a tangent, Europe is already spending a ton of money on this sort of infrastructure, but the U.S "expresses" interest....yet they do nothing. Hard to get this stuff moving without support from those with the money and power! Money doesn't come to us, which doesn't make it to the vendors....the economy doesn't do ****. /end tangent

I think eventually I will develop good ties to my vendors. I have worked with vendors before at my last job, and was on a first name basis with the owner of the other company. The problem now is that these questions come amidst other pressing priorities which I must see through.

Businesses are built upon mutually beneficial relationships, and you build these relationships by being the first one to stick out his hand. You give in order to receive.


We had a deal cut with our CAD program. However, long term financing options are rather steep at 14% interest. Part of our long term goal is to support American vendors, so these relationships will ultimately be an important aspect to what we do.

It seems that you really believe in this business. If you really are on the cutting edge of ingenuity (or not, even), why are you looking at long-term financing to get you off the ground?

This is where I can help you.

I'm getting my commercial finance brokerage off the ground at this time. I've built my lender network (and my lenders are lending now, unlike banks) and established relationships with a couple brokers to learn about the business and get referrals. So I don't claim to be an expert, but I am soaking it up like a sponge.

IMO, the beginning is the worst time to borrow money. With all the stress you will have getting it to cash flow, starting with a big pile of debt is never your best option. It's like dragging a dead carcass up a mountain; why would I ever do that?

I have to tell you, 14% interest has you well into the waters of hard money. And hard money is the absolute last, rock-bottom resort for ANY business. Sky-high interest and exorbitant fees are the reason that my associates and I will not do hard money loans; you are hurting a borrower more than you are helping him. Who said there's no ethics left in finance?

With that said, assuming your business is light on assets or cash flow (if not I could get you capitalized in two weeks), the gleaming weapon in your warchest is the VENTURE CAPITALIST. You are the perfect example of why I want to expand my business into venture capital as well; that way, I can honestly say that if there is ANY way in hell that you can get capitalized, I can make it happen.

But you need to strongly consider seeking a VC. Yes, you'll have to (at least initially) surrender a % of ownership and profits on the return, but rest assured, the right kind of VC will be your greatest asset next to your product. Your ideal VC would give you a fair deal on interest and, more importantly, guaranteed buyout options on your contract. There are VCs like this, we've all heard the horror stories about people losing their companies to VCs, but if you put in the work to find the right one, it will be the 2nd smartest decision you ever made in your business.

This is motivating, I see that I need to get to work on getting my VC pool together.

 

[backbreaker]

venture capital is a definte but I have alot of experience with that from my first company.

BE CAREFUL!!!!

we started right at the end of the tech bubble and we were a computer company and we had our stuff in order where we would get random, not a lot but some random VC interest.

Then one company liked our business after we showed them our business plan and models and prospectus so much that they flew down to our office and had a meeting with us.

We were very excited, then this mother****er tried to get us to pay them some type of "fee", to get venture capatial. That **** just didn't make sense to me, even at that age. 'you want me to give you money, to get money?"

We had that happen a couple of times, there are a lot of vultures out there in the VC world taking advantage of nieve business people.

One company got us, they were smart. they weren't pitching VC but they "knew alot of VC compaines' and we paid them 4 grand to print about 700 packages which included mailing and everything and they were supposed to mail them out, we never got one.

Then, we had another guy that was going to do something similar but in exchange for our services we built him about a $2,000 computer. never heard form him again.

ironically, we said fvck it, if we are going to make it we are going to make it on our own, and once we got really determined, a real VC company came along an d made us an offer that we just couldn't pass up.

but the moral of the story is be careful. be very careful. the **** we went through, we got taken advantage of to the point where I seriously thought about quitting a few times.

you are struggling, you ar brpoke, all your money is going in your company and mother****ers a re ripping you off left and right?

 

[elite7]

awesome advice

 

[synergy1]

we just started and are riding our first wave of funding into phase 1. The idea of VCs came up, but why surrender a % of our holdings of the company to them for very little. Right now the company is not worth much ( because it has no real cash flow), so a small % now which would do very little could potentially be worth a great deal down the road when the government starts to give out grant money. We also will be working with colleges and apply to various grants like NSF.

but the moral of the story is be careful. be very careful. the **** we went through, we got taken advantage of to the point where I seriously thought about quitting a few times.

our board of advisers said the exact same thing.

I have to tell you, 14% interest has you well into the waters of hard money. And hard money is the absolute last, rock-bottom resort for ANY business. Sky-high interest and exorbitant fees are the reason that my associates and I will not do hard money loans; you are hurting a borrower more than you are helping him. Who said there's no ethics left in finance?

Its 14% accrued annually, and we anticipate having the software paid in full in 3 months. We needed the second injection of funding to full pay for it, which arrives next week! Some folks advocate leveraging debt in order to get things rolling but we are opting not to initially since we can't promise positive cash flow.

 

[elite7]

Do u need a degree 2 go into insurance as a broker