Ron Louis and David Copeland vs. David DeAngelo

[Marcopolo]

I have noticed that most people on this board seem to really think that David DeAngelo is the authority on DJism. Has anyone here heard of Ron Louis and David Copeland ever? The wrote a book called "How to Succeed with Women" and have a tape series abnd a DVD series out as well. From what I have read, much is the same, but also they have some slightly different philosophies and advice on how to pick up women. Thoughts?

 

[Derek Flint]

I have the "How to Succeed" book and the DYD DVD's and the DYD stuff is much better, in my opinion.

DeAngelo really goes so much more in depth in the DVD's than he does in his ebook and newsletters.

The "How to Succeed with Women" book is OK, but it seems more like the basics.

 

[Gipper]

I'm not familiar with David DeAngelo's material, but I started my "DJ" lifestyle with Louis & Copelands book. At the time, I was in dire need of the basics, which they cover very well.

Their tape series is an excellent continuation of the book, with more detail thrown in.

Most of these guys are covering a lot of the same material however, so there will naturally be some repetition. I found this website much later however, and it seem to work very well, and for free, I might add.

Work with whatever approach you are most comfortable with, but get out there.

Gipper

 

[Big Pappy]

You know, I have never heard of any of these guys until I blundered onto this site looking for a DJ for a party of mine. The only thing these guys are after is your money.

I daresay, there's nothing on their CD's and or in their books that's not covered here in the forum. Use the search, read a bit and be enightened.

 

[Derek Flint]

Originally posted by Big Pappy
You know, I have never heard of any of these guys until I blundered onto this site looking for a DJ for a party of mine. The only thing these guys are after is your money.

I daresay, there's nothing on their CD's and or in their books that's not covered here in the forum. Use the search, read a bit and be enightened.

So you've read and studied all their material and are in a position of experience to make this observation?

 

[Big Pappy]

Point taken.

However, I do think that confidence is from within.

If shelling out your hard earned cash makes it easier for you to interact successfully with women, by all means, do so.

My point is that there is more than enough data on the forum to do the same thing. (FREE!) If you can't find it here, it's certainly available somewhere on the Internet.

 

[Derek Flint]

I agree that there is a lot of good, free information on this board.

But what guys like DeAngelo and others offer is a structered learning environment that repeatedly gets predictable results.

Word of mouth travels fast, and the so-called PU guru's who run these workshops and sell these DVD's and such get a reputations very quickly, whether it's good or bad.

Personally, I think DeAngelo has a lot to offer, although I might not pay what he wants for his material.

I also think that anyone can benifit from his stuff no matter how much "game" they have.

I've been in the "game" for quite some time and do well, but I'm always open to learning more and tightening up my game.

I'm about to drop $900.00 on a weekend bootcamp in the near future, because of the feedback I've gotten from those who've taken it and tell me its the best money they ever spent, and, because parts of my game can use improvement.
I see it as an investment in my happiness and future successes.

But none of this stuff matters unless you put it to use in the field.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

Exactly. Time is money. If I'm gonna learn something new, or taught in a different/unique way, that I can use, I am open to the fact that it is not gonna be free.

DeAngelo goes into the topics in detail, and gives very good examples that are practical. Very organized and professional business he runs, and the material reflects it.

Louis & Copeland, their book is very basic, but a good and easy read, and great resource for anyone.

 

[Jariel]

DeAngelo is good at showing downtrodden men how to regain their dignity. For this and this alone, his stuff is worth a look (though not worth paying for).

However, you will not attract women using his advice - he so much as admits that himself, hence the reason he promotes the art of "nexting" and constant approaching. If his stuff worked, you wouldn't need to keep approaching.

As a matter of fact, many of his suggestions will offend and drive away women...and I say this from experience. There aren't many women who would put up with the way he recommends speaking to them.

I've always preferred reading and learning from people's experiences on this board than some self-appointed authority out to make some easy money.

 

[MackJr]

I tried Louis & Copeland's book, How to talk to women, and it sucked, big time. It was really AFC.

the problem with L&C is that they aren't willing todo what it takes to really attract women, and they ignore that it's an amoral process. They basically teach you to be a nice guy and make dozens of approaches.

fortunately, I read this board and found out about The Art of seduction, made by the same people who created the 28 laws of power and also from reading posts in the DJ Bible, I got an understanding of the challenge principle. the challenge principle is the single most important aspect to attracting women besides physical appearance, I'd say.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

If you feel DYD and DD's stuff isn't worth paying for, then you haven't bought it. Of anything I've read or heard, next a good hypnosis CD, DD's Advanced material for $100 is spot on. 11 CD's worth of material cover everything from beginning to end, most stuff people wouldn't get either.

However, one caveat, his course is about reforming the "inner game" so that ALL tactics, techniques, and skills are pliable to your new person. No amount of skill set work with limiting beliefs still pegged to your person.

I introduced the Advanced stuff to an older friend of mine who's been successful all the way through and he confirmed that this is the most efficient and applicable "mindset" to have.

The value of information is not what you pay for it, but what you do with it.


A-Unit

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I've read DeAngelo's online articles and they seem to get to the point and illustrate a certain degree of understanding, but I can only take the author of a "How to get girls" book, DVD, website, etc. so seriously. It's in all of these guys best interests that you 'study' their methods derived from annectdotal and correlative information and observations.

I'm a psychology graduate student with an emphasis on personality studies and behaviorism and my suggestion would be to pick up a copy of 'Why Men are the Way they are' and/or 'The Myth of Male Power' by Dr. Warren P. Farrell. This guy has the info you need to study. The titles may seem a bit misguiding, but they're all about intersexual relations.

Farrell lays out the foundations of what De Angelo and the rest of these guys have built a business out of.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi

Farrell lays out the foundations of what De Angelo and the rest of these guys have built a business out of.

So, in other words, Farrell also has made a business out of writing books that help men how to succeed with women.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Not per se. Farrell's intent is more a psychological understanding of intersexual dynamics - sort of the hows and whys of the behaviors of both sexes with regard to each other. Yes, he's selling books (he's published 4 in about 20 years), but they're not in the self-help section of Barnes & Noble. Farrell doesn't go into 'how to get a girl', rather he explains the primary and secondary motivations of both men and women and in the process adresses a lot of issues that both sexes have with each other. Farrell doesn't patsy around or pander to women in particular like a lot of 'doctors' do in their books such as 'Men are from Mars,..blah blah',..it's pretty much nuts & bolts and that's pissed off a lot of his critics, because he's not appologetic for his studies.

 

[Matt Rogers]

Jariel, would you mind elaborating on that point about Deangelo and offending women. I have read a lot of his stuff and use a lot of his ****y and funny stuff and calling girls out when they act flaky or play games, and I agree girls often think you are just a jerk when you do some of this stuff.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

Originally posted by Matt Rogers
Jariel, would you mind elaborating on that point about Deangelo and offending women. I have read a lot of his stuff and use a lot of his ****y and funny stuff and calling girls out when they act flaky or play games, and I agree girls often think you are just a jerk when you do some of this stuff.

Off course, the key is not caring what they think about you and making sure it comes across loud and clear. These bitshes are so used to every guy kissing up to them and being nice, that when they run into a real man who won't put up with their flaky and second class behavior, they can't help it but notice him and react.

If they wan't a guy to be nice and put up with their games and nonsense, and not to call them on their BS, then they can look into the 95% of guys from Wussville, who instinctively already do that, and who will provide that predictability for them.

 

[MrCode]

I have both products and I think DYD is highly superior to the Louis and Copeland book. Like MackJr said L&C are pretty AFC, though still better than a complete AFC attitude.

But the DYD stuff has been a perfect fit for me. It may not work for every guy, but for me it really works.

Regarding the concern about "offending" women by teasing and being ****y & funny, here is what I say: who gives a sh!t? If you do give a sh!t, well then, guess what, it won't work. You aren't being congruent because you are still seeking the women's approval while you are "attempting" to tease her and be C&F. I've always been a bit of a smart ass and after implementing some of the ideas from DYD I feel like I can finally be myself around both women and other people. I really don't give a sh!t what other people think of me. I tease my boss and coworkers, and I sure as hell tease women I interact with. But it is all in fun, and they know it. So far I have not had a bad reaction from a woman, in fact let me tell you, this attitude is about a thousand times better than my previous mindset.

BTW, I'm not trying to sell the DYD stuff. For a lot of people blowing $200 on 11 CDs is too much. For me, it isn't that big of a deal. I'm not trying to brag, it just happens I sacrificed years of my life going to college and working and not having a social life to be where I'm at today. With the concepts from DYD and this web site, I'm finally starting to have the social life I've always wanted.

Plus I feel more like "me" than I ever have (but that is due to quite a few things, not just DYD.)

 

[klaz]

I have both products and I think DYD is highly superior to the Louis and Copeland book. Like MackJr said L&C are pretty AFC, though still better than a complete AFC attitude.

I have to agree with MrCode in regards to the book versus DeAngelo's DYD's (Why DYD's rather than DVD's - puzzled). The DVD's are far superior, in that they at least give you a visual foundation on how this is done. Plus you get to see the enthusiasm he and his guest speakers have for the subject.

The Book in itself, is a nice starting point, but for me it was the first step towards finding this whole arena of help.

Jariel, would you mind elaborating on that point about Deangelo and offending women. I have read a lot of his stuff and use a lot of his ****y and funny stuff and calling girls out when they act flaky or play games, and I agree girls often think you are just a jerk when you do some of this stuff.

deAngelo's stuff focuses alot on this type of approach, but he tells you in his course work, that its not vindictive. You're calling her on her insecurities. You're not being mean. In a way (my understanding) you're just throwing back some of the reactions that they have given us in reverse situations.

I don't use the ****y & funny "lifestyle"/"routine". Its not me. I lean more heavily towards Ross Jeffries viewpoint. You're bringing pleasure into their lives by helping them come to terms with the fact that their lives are enriched by knowing you. On any level you're willing to let them have.

Farrell lays out the foundations of what De Angelo and the rest of these guys have built a business out of.

From what I've found, most of the authors of these books have links to each other, whether training with them, partying with them or being friends. All of them draw upon psychological concepts that are found in most socialogical books. They've just expanded them (and fully tested them), and translated them into useful english.

 

[MrCode]

Originally posted by klaz
I have to agree with MrCode in regards to the book versus DeAngelo's DYD's (Why DYD's rather than DVD's - puzzled).

DYD = Double Your Dating, the name of DeAngelo's "system." I actually just have the CD set of the Advanced Series and have found it very helpful. I'm sure the DVDs are great too, but I like being able to listen to the CD series in the car or on my computer.

 

[KC_Seductive]

Originally posted by MrCode
I have both products and I think DYD is highly superior to the Louis and Copeland book. Like MackJr said L&C are pretty AFC, though still better than a complete AFC attitude.

From what I've read on their website and their newsletter, I would have to agree.

IMO, the DYD ebooks are lame. The interview CDs are good though.