Religion conditioned me to be an AFC.

[Berom]

I realize there are many variables to consider when wondering how one is conditioned to be an AFC/"nice guy". However, in my case, I believe religion (Pentecostal Christianity in my case) has played a significant part in this paradigm I'm trying to break myself out of.

I've seen a couple threads to where men feel helpless in their journey towards red pill enlightenment. I can relate.

You see, my whole life I've been taught the "golden rule". Treat others as you would want to be treated and that you must have a "servants heart". Other Christian concepts include treat women with up-most respect, they are your "sisters in Christ", masturbation is a sin, do not lust after a women, bounce your eyes. I'm sure you could name countless of other rules taught within the Church and Christian families.

When I was younger, my family and I were Pentecostal missionaries overseas (this was in the early 90s). Speaking in tongues, slain by the spirit, dancing, prophecy, and all that other weird ****. My father was and still is a work-a-holic for the ministry. My mom was sexually abused when she was younger. My parents got a divorce when I was 8 because my mother cheated on my father. Big surprise right? Since then my mother has always had bad luck with men (divorced 3 times). My father remarried a few years later and has been with the same women since.

Now here's the kicker --- Here I am, almost a 28 year old man, and I'm just now discovering how much of a negative impact certain elements of my childhood has had on my mindset about life and women. I feel like I've been lied to by the ones I love the most. I understand this is what they genuinely believe, this blue pill fantasy Disney land. I won't hold that against them, but it makes me so angry.

My mother constantly taught me and my brother to be nice, treat women with respect, open doors, buy flowers, compliment them, don't curse, don't fart, listen to them intently, tell them you love them and care for them, beauty isn't everything-it's the heart that matters, etc.

THIS IS WHAT I THOUGHT THAT ALL WOMEN WANTED. And that women genuinely hated "the jerk".

I thought I was different from all the other men out there and that I was going to be rewarded by God with a beautiful woman who wanted to **** all time. I was special----But I'm not. There's a ton of ****ing AFC's out there with the same mentality. All they are getting is the **** end of the stick when a woman realizes her SMV is declining. So the chump gets the old hag with 2-3 children from a previous marriage, who's sexual interest seems to be depleted, and is only with you because "you're safe/financially viable/treats her well". **** THAT ****.

What I'm getting at is that I really think it's important to look back and take a closer look at your childhood and determine who lied to you and why (religion, abused/smothering mother, neglecting father). You can then begin to pick apart and change your paradigm to your liking.

I understand there are Christian DJ's on the forums and I respect that. But from my experience, this has had detrimental effects on what my mentality of women and life in general has been. It's taking me a lot longer to swallow the red pill then I would like, but then again changing one's paradigm isn't going to happen over night.

Stick with it men. It will get better in time.

 

[Desdinova]

What I'm getting at is that I really think it's important to look back and take a closer look at your childhood and determine who lied to you and why (religion, abused/smothering mother, neglecting father). You can then begin to pick apart and change your paradigm to your liking.

Yup, you've described pretty much what I went through. My major transformation began when I showed up here in 2001. One specific post (probably gone now) sent me on one hell of a rollercoaster ride, making stops along the way for me to deal with all the 5hit that had been piling up since birth. I've addressed so many issues that I've had. It isn't all perfect, but it's certainly much better than it was before I came here. I can honestly say that I'm a better person now than I was in my early 20s, and that goes for all areas of my life.

As for religion and the bible, I don't belong to anything. However, if you read The Bible without some religion picking out the socially acceptable parts (and the parts they like to twist for their particular faith), you'll see that The Bible actually portrays how men and women should behave to have correct order. The wife should be in subjection, the man should be the head of the household, and women who enjoy bad behaviour and everything that goes with it deserve to be turned into a pillar of salt.

 

[Berom]

One specific post (probably gone now) sent me on one hell of a rollercoaster ride

I'm interested as to what the post said if you remember.

 

[Bible_Belt]

So go fvck some Pentecostal girls.

For all the guys on here who want a virgin bride, you are set up to get one whenever you want. Whatever the age of consent is where you live, as long as you're getting married, your church is going to be fine with that. They want you to pop out kids asap.

 

[lance1983]

Wow, your experience parallels mine in so many ways. I was raised in the pentecostal ALJ religion, and my mother was molested. I had cousins on the mission field in Asia.

My mother told me the following about women and sex, and I believe it has more to do with a generational thing than the religious elements but both come into play. "Women don't like sex, women like men who treat them like princesses, women like a provider." These are all the elements to groom a future beta provider, and I was born alpha. She would constantly get onto me and shame me for being "a bad boy" when I knocked the **** out of someone at school, or questioned the teachers, even the sunday school teachers. I was heavily medicated (thanks to public schools) at age 7, and resisted it violently, eventually succumbing to it around 13. I was so dopped up I could barely stay awake, and eventually was kicked out of school.

I very recently began looking back on my life and she definitely tried to lay some of her junk on me. She was everyone's dormat, due to her abuse, and she hated confrontation more than anything. So me as a strong willed child caused her to react by changing me into her, which never really worked out. She always put herself last and wanted us to be the same, which is unhealthy. She also put our family last when it came to the church.

We must have gone to church 5-7 days out of the week and twice on sunday. The pentecostal church is actually very masculine in many aspects. Women don't have a god damn say in anything, and in my denomination weren't even allowed to pray for each other, and they had to call on a male preacher to pray for their groups, and all female conferences had to have a male preacher in case the need for prayer was there. Strict dress codes were also applied to the women, and sex and masturbation were always an element that was focused on. You not only weren't supposed to have sex but if you thought about it you would lose your salvation and go to hell when Jesus returned.

The pentecostal church was also manly in that the man was head of the house hold. God<Man<Woman<Children The pastor is the absolute autocrat and monarch of his church. He can appoint the board that governs him, and the congregation believes he was sent there especially by God to be in authority over them; many believe it is witch craft to disagree with the pastor. This pretty much gives him carte blanche over the church's affairs and finances.

However something perverse happened in the pentecostal church and that is the subversion of the household by the pastor. The pastor could call out a man's wife or daughter for their dress code in public, for their dress in and out of church, could ban them from the choir, sunday school, etc etc. The real power came from the social shunning a member would receive, and take into account that the church was 100% of everyone's social safety net, placed even higher than extended family via repeated sermons. A woman's dress is large part of her sexuality, and the pastors power to have a say over another man's wife or daughter's dress is perverse in many ways. The men of those congregations, looking back, had to have all been brain washed and/or beta/omegas to allow that subversion.

I left the church years ago when I saw it do a 180. The typical pente service quit being as marketable/profitable so they just stopped doing their jibberish tongues and crazy dancing, and now resemble hipster communes. The church now promotes weakness in all of it's forms, strikingly demonstrated in praise. You may remember how men used to shout and raise their hands straight up, often times with a fist?? I remember being almost violent, weird, but in a manly way. Well, I saw those same men and their sons turn to crying with limp wrists dangling toward Jesus and heaven. I watched their daughters turn into *****s and their sons into bitches before my eyes, and my last two services they announces an accountability group for the guys and shamed fathers on fathers day. The accountability group was for guys to call another guy if they had a lustful thought and on fathers day they told the single moms to stand up because they do both jobs, then told the men "you men treat your wives good!" On mothers day they sent all the moms out to eat with gift cards.

I think what happened was demographic shifts in the family had many households without a father, thus less men to draw a crowd from. Also, women naturally favor the mystical, permissive elements of religions like this. It might as well be a tony robin;s sermon, followed by some hipster drums, and that night they will all get ****ed by an alpha while the guys are playing ****ing frisbe. The guys I've seen get married have married reformed sluts who either hit the wall or had another guy toss them aside. The guys are damn proud to be married to these *****s too.

I also think the Pastor's favor the new church/business model much more because after all they never liked having men in the way anyway. I'm sure 99% of their problems came from angry men, excluding the many sexual misadventures and financial many of them have.

Anyway, I think this all gave me a negative view of women I have sex with. My mother of course told me women don't like sex, and the church I was in all week for my formative years told me sex was evil, thus the women who give it up to me I see as sluts. I rarely go out with a woman once we've ****ed.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I found it to be not too difficult of a transition once I realized that today's modern women would have been given the surname "the harlot' in Bible times.

The hartlots in the bible lead to mens ruin, suffering and even death. It's not joke, and you are basically saying the modern women for the most part have aspired to be this way. Scarey stuff...

 

[Desdinova]

I'm interested as to what the post said if you remember.

The gist of it was that someone had asked about seducing women in the religion that I grew up in. Another poster shared links to how crazy and fvcked up the religion was. I followed the links, and was stuck on that website, reading and deprogramming myself of all the religious brainwashing I endured while growing up. Doctrine after doctrine were being debunked, helping me see how much bull5hit I was taught.

Up until that point, I had just tucked away and ignored all my issues stemming from the religion and my upbringing. When I started addressing them, I kept opening can after can of worms. I went through a whole bunch of thoughts and emotions during the deprogramming process. I still have some issues left, but they're all very minor and I can deal with them as they don't have a large impact on my life.

If you haven't done so, I suggest you look into message forums, websites, and support groups that are run by ex-members. Collective experiences from those who have already dealt with issues and those who are still dealing with them will certainly help you come to terms with the things you've experienced, and your recovery will go into a much higher speed than it would have trying to deal with everything on your own.

 

[Berom]

"Women don't like sex, women like men who treat them like princesses, women like a provider." These are all the elements to groom a future beta provider

@lance1983 --- My mother taught me the same exact thing. I wish so much to be able to snap my fingers and all of that brainwashing sh*t would be erased from my mind. For some men it's easier to replace that childhood mentality with a healthy one. As for me (and I'm sure many others) it's difficult. I've read The Rational Male and the DJ bible and it all makes sense to me. I'm sitting here reading it thinking, "Yes! Of course! That makes much more sense. Why was I so blind?!" But since birth I've been fed spoon fulls of Christian principles. It's tough to scrape this sh*t of my mind. I believed it to literally be a part of my identity.

And I agree about the Church transforming. Once dancing, speaking in tongues, and baptism in the holy spirit became less popular, churches started switching over to this hipster/concert form of church service.
"But what happened to all the weird sh*t you guys did in the 70s-90s?"
"Oh, we don't do that anymore."
"Then why the f*ck was I subjected to it?"

If you haven't done so, I suggest you look into message forums, websites, and support groups that are run by ex-members.

Thank you much @Desdinova --- I hadn't thought about searching forums/support groups.

In my mind religion is the enemy of the DJ mindset.

I'm starting to realize this more and more as I unplug.

 

[Tictac]

So now you know and you can work on de-conditioning.

You get to blame your past for a while. After that, you're just making excuses.

You've gotten some good advice. Work it.

 

[Alvafe]

The irony is, the Bible (in my opinion) was clearly written by men and is replete with violence and female subservience. I would think that any woman who has truly read it would be abhorred. But the watered-down version is all about love thy neighbor, etc.

here is teh thing there is not waterred down, most religious types read only the part is more interesting for then, they never really read it all, and when one read they always use the you can't take it as literal or its out of context, but they always forgot, they own little book tells then there is not other way to take it if not in the literal way. religion is a bussiness, the leaders are always after new people so they can get more money, you know what is a diference to a priest to a con artist? the priest will not going for the jail for doing it

 

[lance1983]

It's almost like dying in that you lose your entire support system, your community, which is at a level most modern Americans aren't accustomed to. The close knit community of the pente church may have been dysfunctional, but it was there and the modern world offers little in comparison unless you join the Marines. Your views on sex and women are actually the least of your worries. What you're probably experiencing is severe depression from a loss you were never fully aware of and never grieved over. That loss is yourself, your own death.

I now place priority on women somewhere below what I'm going to eat for the day. In some ways the pentecostal church gave me a more red pill perspective on women than American society would have. We didn't allow women preacher (until years later) and like I said didn't even think women were fit to pray for each other. The entire culture was centered around masculine authority, and I honestly am shocked at how some men allow their wives to talk over them in front of other men. That's one thing that wouldn't have been allowed in our culture, a woman subverting a man in front of another man, and that subtle action would have been shut down instantly either by the husband or by another man. The curtailing of female dress standards was also a patriarchal means of controlling women's sexuality.

Compare all those things to main stream culture and you will see that female relations isn't the biggest issue the pentecostal church gave you. What little beta qualities your mother tried to place on you were probably her own mental junk and just typical 1950s American culture. Believe it or not being a beta male was once rewarded and being an alpha was once punished.

 

[zekko]

"Women don't like sex, women like men who treat them like princesses, women like a provider." These are all the elements to groom a future beta provider, and I was born alpha.

Women are definitely attracted to providers. Not beta providers, but what I would instead call alpha providers. Not a guy who gushes all over them and makes himself a doormat, but a strong, successful, masculine, male. Women will view such a man as a prize to be eagerly sought after.

 

[Julian]

The bible was written during brutal times in mans history. i dont know what to believe but if God and Jesus is out there im on their side lol. I believe in evil and if there is evil in the world (theres plenty) then there must be good as well.

 

[Bible_Belt]

For whatever inaccuracies the Bible contains, for most of the time period covered, it is still by far the most accurate historical document in existence, supernatural elements aside.

And I've said this on here before, two important points about the Bible and sex:
#1 - Read the Song of Solomon in the Old Testament, and then tell me it says sex is bad. The book reads like soft-core porn:
Your stature is like that of the palm,
and your breasts like clusters of fruit.
I said, “I will climb the palm tree;
I will take hold of its fruit.”
(huh-huh..huh...come to Butthead...)

#2 - Other than saying that all of us are sexually immoral, including your holier than thou preacher man, Jesus never said jack sh!t about sex. It's almost like he had more important things to talk about. The New Testament anti-sex verses come from Paul, who was writing letters to the church in Corinth, whose members were fvcking temple prostitutes at pay-to-play orgies hosted by pagan churches of competing religions. Paul had to be discrete in his writing. He couldn't say "stop fvcking hookers. Your d!ck will rot off because condoms and antibiotics haven't been invented yet." So he had to say "don't be sexually immoral" and hope they would get the point. And that's what modern religion has taken out of context and used as justification for ruining everyone's sex life.

 

[speed dawg]

Religion, and mainstream American Christianity specifically, have a long way to go in this regards. But know this, most religion is not beta at all. Jesus Christ was very much an alpha male. And look at what all the crazy muslims believe - take away all the evil and killing and they are nothing but an ultra conservative cult who relegate women to servants.

 

[Desdinova]

The irony is, the Bible (in my opinion) was clearly written by men and is replete with violence and female subservience. I would think that any woman who has truly read it would be abhorred. But the watered-down version is all about love thy neighbor, etc.

The bible isn't watered down unless the Old Testament is removed. Religions will water down the bible by primarily using the New Testament, but will use the well-known stories in the Old Testament to teach lessons. All the in-between stuff is left out because it's disgusting, sexist, and will scare away female (and feminist) membership.

Many years ago, I had a wanna-be feminist GF who decided to start attending church. I helped change her mind by making her read a good chunk of Leviticus where it talks about women being unclean in the eyes of God for having their period.

 

[Dust 2 Dust]

Mainstream religions such as Christianity and Islam are stains on humanity and should be abolished. Satan is the only one with a DJ mindset.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Religion, and mainstream American Christianity specifically, have a long way to go in this regards. But know this, most religion is not beta at all. Jesus Christ was very much an alpha male. And look at what all the crazy muslims believe - take away all the evil and killing and they are nothing but an ultra conservative cult who relegate women to servants.

In Christianity if you go by the book they say it is God then then man and then the Woman. There was not even a concept of a man NOT being the head of his household....

 

[SoSuave666]

I realize there are many variables to consider when wondering how one is conditioned to be an AFC/"nice guy". However, in my case, I believe religion (Pentecostal Christianity in my case) has played a significant part in this paradigm I'm trying to break myself out of.

I've seen a couple threads to where men feel helpless in their journey towards red pill enlightenment. I can relate.

You see, my whole life I've been taught the "golden rule". Treat others as you would want to be treated and that you must have a "servants heart". Other Christian concepts include treat women with up-most respect, they are your "sisters in Christ", masturbation is a sin, do not lust after a women, bounce your eyes. I'm sure you could name countless of other rules taught within the Church and Christian families.

When I was younger, my family and I were Pentecostal missionaries overseas (this was in the early 90s). Speaking in tongues, slain by the spirit, dancing, prophecy, and all that other weird ****. My father was and still is a work-a-holic for the ministry. My mom was sexually abused when she was younger. My parents got a divorce when I was 8 because my mother cheated on my father. Big surprise right? Since then my mother has always had bad luck with men (divorced 3 times). My father remarried a few years later and has been with the same women since.

Now here's the kicker --- Here I am, almost a 28 year old man, and I'm just now discovering how much of a negative impact certain elements of my childhood has had on my mindset about life and women. I feel like I've been lied to by the ones I love the most. I understand this is what they genuinely believe, this blue pill fantasy Disney land. I won't hold that against them, but it makes me so angry.

My mother constantly taught me and my brother to be nice, treat women with respect, open doors, buy flowers, compliment them, don't curse, don't fart, listen to them intently, tell them you love them and care for them, beauty isn't everything-it's the heart that matters, etc.

THIS IS WHAT I THOUGHT THAT ALL WOMEN WANTED. And that women genuinely hated "the jerk".

I thought I was different from all the other men out there and that I was going to be rewarded by God with a beautiful woman who wanted to **** all time. I was special----But I'm not. There's a ton of ****ing AFC's out there with the same mentality. All they are getting is the **** end of the stick when a woman realizes her SMV is declining. So the chump gets the old hag with 2-3 children from a previous marriage, who's sexual interest seems to be depleted, and is only with you because "you're safe/financially viable/treats her well". **** THAT ****.

What I'm getting at is that I really think it's important to look back and take a closer look at your childhood and determine who lied to you and why (religion, abused/smothering mother, neglecting father). You can then begin to pick apart and change your paradigm to your liking.

I understand there are Christian DJ's on the forums and I respect that. But from my experience, this has had detrimental effects on what my mentality of women and life in general has been. It's taking me a lot longer to swallow the red pill then I would like, but then again changing one's paradigm isn't going to happen over night.

Stick with it men. It will get better in time.

Interesting how your dedicated, religious father is the one in your family maintaining relationships, while your sexually abused mother is the one that cannot hold one. I'd say the Christian church does a far better job than any other institution in placing value on the family. Certainly a better job than the federal government...

 

[Glumix]

Religion do a far better job than our mothers.

Religion teach us about vertical power. Vertical power is hierarchy. It is the idea of having somebody above us to guide us.
Horizontal power is about complementarity and consensus. Horizontal power is what your feminist GF does not know she hates because it's boring.

Why do you think ancients put scarf on women's head? It is to cut them from the voice of God so that men stayed between God and women as in a hierarchical organization.

The problem is that today we completely lost what God really is. The symbol of God. The link to our soul.
God is everywhere inside of you. The father, the son, the treason, the hero, the mother, etc... They are all symbols of some parts of your personality.

The problem with mothers today is that they project their own needs in to their sons. The need for a provider, for security, the need that you hate your father, etc... And because in 60 to 80% of our families there is no more a man and a father because he is either divorced, a castrated AFC or dead. There is no more Man's School in our childhood.

But be sure girls suffer from this as well. They are taught to refuse what they love and to accept what bore them.