Rejection from insecure women

[oldmanofthesea]

I remember seeing some comments about this a while back. @guru1000 talked about it a bit as well. As one's game gets tighter, some women will appear to reject a guy's advances out of insecurity that they aren't good enough for the guy, and think that he couldn't actually be interested in them. My question is: How do you tell if this is what is going on, and what do you do to mitigate it?

What brought this to the front of my mind is one girl who recently gave me a very luke-warm response to my invitation.... one of those, "we can definitely plan that sometime, I'm busy this weekend but maybe one coming soon" kind of things. "sometime" "maybe" responses without an alternative date/time suggestion always results in me moving on and never looking back, or at the very most, I'll reply telling them to get in touch when their schedule opens up. But if a girl is giving this kind of response because she is insecure and thinks you wouldn't be interested in her, putting the ball in her court like that is guaranteed to close the door. Not the end of the world, there are plenty more women out there to choose from, but I could be missing out on some opportunities because I'm not recognizing the response is due to insecurity instead of actual disinterest.

So again, how do you tell if the rejection or soft-rejection is coming from insecurity/disbelief, and then how do you adjust your game for this dynamic? And I'm not talking about situations where it's obvious to you, her, and everyone around you that she's leagues below you. I'm talking about situations where, to the casual observer, you seem like a close match in SMV.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Fair points LARaiders. Although in the specific case of the girl I mentioned above, I was only interested in s*x, not a relationship. I don't see much wrong with having a plate with insecurity issues.

 

[Ranger]

I think it’s important to project sexuality. I think @lamath commented on it a while back.
He called it polarization. Don’t hide sexual interest. Not interest but sexual interest. Polarize them. Either they like you or they don’t. Thats how you figure out to interact or move on. Make her pick a side.

Just rejecting women because some guy on a forum says there’s something wrong with her is pretty lame.
The idea of a relationship never even enters my mind. If a guy’s thoughts start drifting to daydreams about a cool “relationship”, well there’s his chump knocking on the door.

If you expact this overflowing of interest or she starts touching You repeatedly just by you talking to them for a minute, you are going to be disappointed and think you’re not getting anywhere.

 

[backseatjuan]

Honestly, there is an assumption here that can be completely wrong and offset everything. I suggest you do the following, create yourself an alter ego profile of a mythical creature, he will give you an opportunity to peek into her soul. This guy opens with hello how are you, and doesn't bs too much, he asks his women out, because he believes in real world communication, frankly, he has too much time on his hands to be online much, and only comes out once in a while.

I believe the answer you are looking for will surprise you, she just might say yes to Antone without any sort of bsing.

 

[lamath]

I dont think rejection because of insecurities is something that happens often, i think that if you surprise her and dont give her time to evaluate if she is interested or not it might happens however.

If insecure she would not reject but slow down the pace imo



I remember when younger asking a very hot women for her number, i think i took her of guard, i did not get the digits.

I live in a small town so did run into her many time afterward and all my friend were telling me that she was checking me out giving me lots of ioi.
But ofc never ask herr out again.
Idk might have just been in our head.

 

[Ranger]

Honestly, there is an assumption here that can be completely wrong and offset everything. I suggest you do the following, create yourself an alter ego profile of a mythical creature, he will give you an opportunity to peek into her soul. This guy opens with hello how are you, and doesn't bs too much, he asks his women out, because he believes in real world communication, frankly, he has too much time on his hands to be online much, and only comes out once in a while.

I believe the answer you are looking for will surprise you, she just might say yes to Antone without any sort of bsing.

That might be a great idea.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Honestly, there is an assumption here that can be completely wrong and offset everything. I suggest you do the following, create yourself an alter ego profile of a mythical creature, he will give you an opportunity to peek into her soul. This guy opens with hello how are you, and doesn't bs too much, he asks his women out, because he believes in real world communication, frankly, he has too much time on his hands to be online much, and only comes out once in a while.

I believe the answer you are looking for will surprise you, she just might say yes to Antone without any sort of bsing.

Lazar lol. Cool. Hes a good one they might know him. Try Cross Thompson too.

 

[Who Dares Win]

I find it very unlikely in the current state of the dating market and culture for a girl average or above average to feel insecure toward a guy unless he is a rock star with LMS value of 10/10.

Even if they are not totally sure they would probably be cautious and slow but definitely not reject someone.

A total different topic is if a girl is afraid of being used and thrown away, that case happens when a guy gives the player vibes too hard or when he is so interested that it seems he is faking it.

 

[Chi Town]

Yes it's a thing and it happens more often than you think, some will flat out reject you or just simply ignore you.....

I have flirted with girls in the past who showed active disinterest then later having them tell me "I assumed you was just flirting for fun or I figured you do that with every girl"

The hot ones are the most insecure from my experience.

 

[Robert28]

You are all overthinking this too much. The “insecure woman” is a myth. The answer is very simple when you stop and think about it, many women are ****ty people and they only date ****ty men. Has nothing to do with insecurity, they are just looking for their ****ty partner and they can tell you aren’t that type. Women know damn well what they’re doing when it comes to choosing who to date and sleep with.

 

[Spaz]

ALL women will feel very secure with a man they perceived as low value and insecure with a man they perceived as higher valued then them.

What's new or special about this ?

Just go out and fvck more instead of over thinking.

Have an abundance until this shiet doesn't even register in ur life because by then you'll dismiss it as irrelevant.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Have an abundance until this shiet doesn't even register in ur life because by then you'll dismiss it as irrelevant.

That's definitely the goal. But one of my goals is to increase my abundance by improving my game. A huge part of game is being very tuned in on where the woman is coming from so you can fine-tune accordingly. This is not the same thing as playing in her frame. I'm talking about learning to read signals accurately during the seduction process. My abundance will increase the better I get with this (as it already has based on how far I've come, but I'm never satisfied so always trying to prove), so if I could turn 1/4 or so of the current no's to yes's, then that's only going to serve to increase my abundance. Up until now though, I've been doing what you suggest which is to just next them or put the ball in their court (knowing she likely won't reach out). I've had a feeling on a few occasions that I could have totally had the girl but I was just missing something, and in many cases, it was with women who I knew to be a bit insecure and knew they felt they were below my league.

 

[Spaz]

That's definitely the goal. But one of my goals is to increase my abundance by improving my game. A huge part of game is being very tuned in on where the woman is coming from so you can fine-tune accordingly. This is not the same thing as playing in her frame. I'm talking about learning to read signals accurately during the seduction process. My abundance will increase the better I get with this (as it already has based on how far I've come, but I'm never satisfied so always trying to prove), so if I could turn 1/4 or so of the current no's to yes's, then that's only going to serve to increase my abundance. Up until now though, I've been doing what you suggest which is to just next them or put the ball in their court (knowing she likely won't reach out). I've had a feeling on a few occasions that I could have totally had the girl but I was just missing something, and in many cases, it was with women who I knew to be a bit insecure and knew they felt they were below my league.

I'll be honest, I don't have a game plan to bed women nor any special lines.

I'm more preoccupied with just enjoying myself in dates, I don't care if she's enjoying it or not but women generally follow my lead and maybe my enthusiasm is infectious, I'm not sure - but that's my game or rather how I operate.

I bring women out to places I enjoy going.

It could be out on my crappy boat to some island, in my 4x4 on a trip to the mountains, some unique place with exotic food/drinks or simply just McDonald's + movie.

I don't invite women, I ASK them to JOIN me on my adventures, it is an adventure of sorts for me even if it's a movie because I don't watch TV so it's a treat for me and I enjoy all the trappings of popcorn, soft drinks etc.

Make ur dates into an adventure - even going to a funfair is an adventure.

How many women will say NO to an adventure ?

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

It doesn’t matter. Full Stop.

Think about that. Is she disinterested? Is she insecure? You’ll never know. Here’s what you pay attention to...are you seen as having a player reputation in your social circle? Pay attention to that. The reason you pay attention to that is you’ll learn how women perceive you, which WILL materially affect your results.

If women think you are a guy after sex only (as you admit about the chick in question) they have a funny radar to sense that. It has to do with the way you behave and the kind of attention you pay to a woman in the interaction. Many women do not wish to be pump & dumped. They will pace the interaction to gauge whether you want only sex or something more. Women who will sleep with you right away might simply be *****s...or they might be confident enough to take a calculated risk with you because they really like you & know you require a sexual relationship to keep giving your time.

You aren’t going to know any of that at the beginning but you can own your own desires & your own behavior and see what women are drawn to you naturally. That’s the subset to pick from.

Quit worrying why some marginally interested chick is marginally interested.

It doesn’t matter and you’ll break your brain trying to figure that out. It’s mental gymnastics and a waste of time and emotional bandwidth.

 

[sangheilios]

I don't think you should devote any amount of time or energy into something like this. Yes, some women do reject out of insecurity but it may not be in the manner you think.

This is based on my experience as a 6'4", fit and attractive white male.

I tried online dating off and on and in my bio/description I would list all the usual things but also something along the lines of using OLD/tinder, etc. as a means to meet other people that I might not be able to in my day to day life. Anyway, several times I had women dissect this as if I was some sort of player. I've met women in the real world that were clearly attracted to me that created road blocks and made things a bit difficult. Looking back on these experiences I can say that they did this because I came across as a bit forward and aggressive, possibly suggesting that I only wanted sex. I've also met women that I assumed were simply not interested in me, due to their awkward behavior, but they in fact were into me.....the difference here is that they didn't reject me but just were shy.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

You aren’t going to know any of that at the beginning but you can own your own desires & your own behavior and see what women are drawn to you naturally. That’s the subset to pick from.

Quit worrying why some marginally interested chick is marginally interested.

It doesn’t matter and you’ll break your brain trying to figure that out. It’s mental gymnastics and a waste of time and emotional bandwidth.

Good points as always BE.

I want to be sure to clarify something. I approach and get rejected enough that I don't spend much time worrying about the "why" for a specific woman anymore. I have a pretty basic formula which is that I ask to hang out (the only variance there is the activity - depending on the dynamic and social circumstances with the given woman, I may ask to do something that, combined with my intent, clearly communicates "date", or I may ask to do something more ambiguous that could be platonic or romantic.... she won't immediately know until we are on the date and I begin escalating), and anything other than a yes or a "I'm busy that day but how about ___ day?" results in a hard next from me.

So my bringing up this specific girl and specific situation was just to illustrate one example, but I don't bring it up because I'm looking for help trying to do a postmortem on this one specific girl/interaction. I'm more trying to understand if there is a substantial chunk of women who actually are interested but I'm not picking up on the signals correctly. A good example is @sangheilios mentioning of women who appear disinterested by acting shy/awkward, although he didn't mention if he actually asked them out on a date or not. Whether a girl acts shy/disinterested or not, I'm still going to ask her out if I'm attracted to her, so that should cut through some of the BS and/or mixed signals.

So back to your point BE, what I'm wondering about is whether or not a girl is truly marginally interested or if she is actually very interested but is insecure, worried I just want to use her for s*x, or that I'm out of her league so she's trying to avoid getting rejected down the line by simply avoiding me. Based on what you and others have said, it seems like the message I'm getting from everyone is: Not worth it if she's like that.

 

[BeExcellent]

Whether a girl acts shy/disinterested or not, I'm still going to ask her out if I'm attracted to her, so that should cut through some of the BS and/or mixed signals.

^^^^ Here's the answer to your own question. That's the correct attitude and the correct mindset. You do what YOU as a MAN want. You are attracted? Ask her out, absolutely. She gets wishy washy mealy mouthed can't make a decision? That is information. You take that information and ACT according to your desire as a MAN. You want to try again? Do so. You want to hard next? Do so.

As long as you are doing what you desire to do and are inclined to do you'll do fine and you won't waste time on lukewarm women. Think about this. Let's say she's marginally interested, painfully shy, worried about pump & dump, insecure etc. Either her responses (actions) toward you will relax and she'll warm up to going out with you...or she won't. If her actions do not warm up toward you, she is going to be difficult to deal with and she is going to have you wondering where you stand with her constantly. She will relentlessly erode your frame through no fault of her own. Ick. Why put yourself through that? Why put yourself through that when you can select another woman who isn't going to behave in a sitting-the-fence lukewarm manner?

Your time is valuable. Never waste time on people who send mixed signals. Shy girls will still show you interest and will accept dates if they like you. Keep asking them out, as per your habit above, and watch what they do.

Interested women, whether they are shy or insecure or whatever or not will be responsive to you and accomodating of you and will accept your invitations to get together. Anything that leaves doubt? Means her attraction to you is in doubt. Does not matter why that is.

You can't negotiate desire. Too many men try and convince marginally interested women to like them. Sometimes those men manage to end up say married to marginally interested women. And guess what happens to those unions? Sex dries up, complaints goes up, she loses respect, etc. Loss of respect isn't always from loss of frame. If there was never solid desire and attraction, but a man talked a woman into dating him, or marrying him or whatever, that's an even worse problem to have.

Ask yourself this. Don't you want to be involved with someone who wants to fvck you badly and who desires you and who is into you? Never settle for someone who you have to convince to like you. That will wreck your self esteem over time, not to mention create a mighty paranoia about what other men pay attention to her etc. I don't care how hot she is. If a man picks someone he has to REALLY sell himself to? That's the WRONG chick and nothing good will come of it.