Reasons on why the manosphere creates more Incels& weak-minded men than women and society combined.

[BadBoy89]

Men who become incels think that women are some equation that can be solved. They listen to PUAs who say "Do X and Y and you will get da gurlza". They become incels because they do X and Y, they don't have success and then they give up and blame women for their problems.

What should they do?

 

[Bokanovsky]

This thread is equivalent of the proverbial pissing into the wind. OP takes a bunch of exaggerated stereotypes to create an abstract bogeyman.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

This thread is equivalent of the proverbial pissing into the wind. OP takes a bunch of exaggerated stereotypes to create an abstract bogeyman.

OP in strong denial of Clown World

 

[CornbreadFed]

This thread is equivalent of the proverbial pissing into the wind. OP takes a bunch of exaggerated stereotypes to create an abstract bogeyman.

the irony lol

 

[Millard Fillmore]

According to the manosphere, women wake up, work 8 hours a day, come home, sleep with 3-5 different guys, go on a date with their boyfriends, and then sneak out to their main Alpha guy's house while manipulating their beta orbiters simultaneously.

you forgot that they also spend at least three hours crying over the Alpha guy who dumped them when they were 18

 

[DreamAgain]

I see fat, short, ugly, bald, poor, and brown men with women all the time.

Lost all credibility when you said this, fail.

 

[pipeman84]

For example, figures in the community have publicly labeled Tom Brady, Ben Shapiro, and Jeff Bezos as beta. Having just seen Oppenheimer, I can confidently say that he would've been considered beta by the manosphere. What does the manosphere consider as an ideal standard for masculinity?

Getting into an LTR with or marrying divorced women, single moms, women with promiscuous past is beta, as far as masculinity is concerned. You basically show through your actions that you're either too needy and/or incapable of securing a relationship with a top quality woman, despite your athletic, business or other type of success you might have.

Ben Shapiro married his wife, a doctor, (indicating she has brains) when she was 20 (indicating no or very little baggage). That doesn't look like a beta at all to me.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Getting into an LTR with or marrying divorced women, single moms, women with promiscuous past is beta, as far as masculinity is concerned. You basically show through your actions that you're either too needy and/or incapable of securing a relationship with a top quality woman, despite your athletic, business or other type of success you might have.

I have literally been called beta by guys that do literally this. Icing on the cake, I do not date single moms either. Your red pill gurus are making love to single moms. Ray Ray and Pookie boasting about his bitcoin alpha lifestyle is making sweet love to single moms.

 

[SW15]

Yes, every time I try to solve this equation, I end up with 0 / 0.

You are a short man. In the United States, 5'5" wasn't even desired in the 1980s-1990s when you were in your teens and 20s. Since 2000, women have gotten even harsher on height.

In addition to that, you had a STEM occupation and you went to an all boys' high school without having a good social circle from your K-8 years.

That's going to be difficult to overcome all of those factors within the United States.

 

[Solomon]

I'll bite

Reason 1: The ideal alpha man in the manosphere does not serve as a key role model to society, while men who possess certain traits are considered beta. For example, figures in the community have publicly labeled Tom Brady, Ben Shapiro, and Jeff Bezos as beta. Having just seen Oppenheimer, I can confidently say that he would've been considered beta by the manosphere. What does the manosphere consider as an ideal standard for masculinity? Andrew Tate, a loud, chest-pounding man-child who met his downfall due to his immaturity. The whole alpha vs. beta argument and the concept of a high-value man is utterly baseless and should have faded away after the PUA movement simmered.

Totally agree when I heard Rollo say Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos aren't alpha I had to laugh, history a 100 years from now will remember them. Will History a 100 years from now remember "The Rational Male" I highly doubt it. It's been almost 20 years and people already forgot what "The Game" is by Neil Strauss. The High value man is cope for nerds or ugly guys thinking that they have shot. The reality is if you work at being just better than the local guy in your city you're good to go with most women in your city! For example a guy living in Des Moines Iowa who makes 75K a year is gonna be able to live a top tier lifestyle, in downtown des moines, a nice apartment, have money to go out etc while 75K a year in New York won't do Shyt and most likely you will have to share a shyttty apartment in Brooklyn with Someone else.

Whether you like Bezos (I dont) and musk or not those men have changed human society as a whole and also created new industries that have changed not just the tech field but commerce and other industries as well!

Reason 2: The constant shifting of goalposts leads men down a path of confusion. If we consider looks, money, and status, wouldn't Tom Brady be regarded as high value or alpha? Is it politically biased? Well, Ben Shapiro is a Republican, so I guess not. According to the manosphere, he is not? Are Ray Ray and Pookie, the degenerates from Southside Chicago, high-value men because of how they treat women? I guess so? If you are a college-aged normal guy seeking simple dating advice and you get bombarded with this nonsense, how does that help the situation?

Tom Brady is alpha in his profession and regarding his status but the word "Alpha" has been bastardized to bits in the community that now it's all about being "high value" (or better yet High earning since money is all anyone talks about now from forums to youtube)the reality is 80% of men who watch/read and consume this content will never be that. It's a superficial and subjective take In my opinion. , based on vanity. Most guys here will be average or slightly above average at best. A guy making 7 figures, with D-list status, and model looks will not be on Sosuave or watch RP content unless they are bored. I remember a rich good looking buddy of mine would listen to RP content at the gym to laugh. The content is ridiculous especially on youtube and often has one-sided takes that sound delusional i.e. high-value men want women with low body counts or virgins meanwhile your favorite Redpill youtuber is going in raw on ONlyfans thots or has women working for him as cam girls I.e. Andrew Tate

Reason 3: Most guys do not require drastic lifestyle changes to improve their dating lives. Look outside! I see fat, short, ugly, bald, poor, and brown men with women all the time. You do not need to transform into some shredded Giga Chad with a billion-dollar Hamsa podcast lifestyle to have a 5/10 plate or date a single mom in secret. These tactics only serve to destroy the confidence and self-esteem of an otherwise normal guy with potential. Jeff, the shy slightly overweight guy in engineering college, does not need to drop out, attempt to become a Bitcoin millionaire and get sub 10% body fat to find a dating partner.

Agree, getting in shape alone can help you out with women. No arguments here, been there done that

Reason 4: Not every woman is a Disney villain. Women work, eat, watch TV, and so on, just like men. According to the manosphere, women wake up, work 8 hours a day, come home, sleep with 3-5 different guys, go on a date with their boyfriends, and then sneak out to their main Alpha guy's house while manipulating their beta orbiters simultaneously. This is far from a representation of normal human behavior; it's a cartoonish portrayal. Believing this nonsense from the manosphere hinders healthy communication and emotional connections between men and women. Instead, some men turn into full-chan NPC mode or end up dating mentally deranged women because that's what the manosphere told them is normal, leading them to filter out all the normal women.

Agreed most men on here are meeting club thots or girls on Tinder, that will warp anyone's mentality. If you want to meet quality women you gonna have to be a quality man or be able to source quality. You're not gonna find quality women on Tinder or the clubs. Quality women are rare but they are out there

If all you're meeting is wh0res than Reason number 4 is valid, but there are lot of women who don;t fit that assertion

 

[Barrister]

@Jesse Pinkman there are many things an older guy can provide that a younger guy(equivalent to her age) can not.
Experience, Maturity, Knowledge, Comfort, Confidence, ability to relate better with women, and material things if that's your thing.

As a late 40's guy in good shape, confident, understands women and has his financial house in great order, its never been easier to attract girls 10-20yrs younger.

You said it yourself a few days ago, that when you took some girl back to your place you didn't even have any furniture. That's basic material stuff.

If you stay in good shape, a man's true peak I think is around 45. Social proof continues to grow as you age and mid-40s is the perfect blend of still looking relatively youthful while still getting a bit of age on you (most women like this) and having lots of connections socially that make you even more attractive.

I can pull women far better right now at age 37 than I ever was able to in my 20s. Part of that is I am no longer blue-pilled like I was in my 20s - but I think those other factors are certainly strong ones as well.

 

[SW15]

If you stay in good shape, a man's true peak I think is around 45. Social proof continues to grow as you age and mid-40s is the perfect blend of still looking relatively youthful while still getting a bit of age on you (most women like this) and having lots of connections socially that make you even more attractive.

I can pull women far better right now at age 37 than I ever was able to in my 20s. Part of that is I am no longer blue-pilled like I was in my 20s - but I think those other factors are certainly strong ones as well.

Around 2013, Rollo Tomassi put out his infamous SMV chart that where he asserts that men's absolute peak was 36 (let's say roughly 35-40) and women's peak was 23 (let's say roughly 20-25).

I disagree about the point where men peak in life. I think men peak around 25-30. The reason for this is that it is difficult to pull off larger age gaps in extended relationships. A 27 year old man has a good chance of seducing and retaining a 22 year old for the longer term. That's a normal and societally acceptable age difference. A 40 year old man is going to have a lot of challenges with seducing and maintaining relationships with 21-25 year old women, even better than average 40 year old men.

There's a reason why the typical 30s/40s man is a thirsty man who ends up settling for some mediocre to subpar woman close to his own age. That's not a man's true peak.

I think the 50th percentile guy at 27 is better positioned than the 50th percentile guy in his early 40s.

A lot of younger men (this is true of both @Barrister and myself) have to spend a good portion of younger adulthood de-programming from blue pill beta male conditioning that came from mothers, sometimes fathers, the grandparents' generation, and K-12 school teachers who are mainly female. This can take a while and some men truly never de-program from the blue pill, AFC, beta male ways.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I disagree about the point where men peak in life. I think men peak around 25-30. The reason for this is that it is difficult to pull off larger age gaps in extended relationships. A 27 year old man has a good chance of seducing and retaining a 22 year old for the longer term. That's a normal and societally acceptable age difference. A 40 year old man is going to have a lot of challenges with seducing and maintaining relationships with 21-25 year old women, even better than average 40 year old men.

I remember I was with this social group of people bar hopping and this girl was all over this one guy. He told her his age, he was 33 and she was 24 at the time and she got so turned off and stopped talking to him then and there. The next day, she told us that she would've slept with him, but him being over 30 was a huge turnoff.

 

[Barrister]

Around 2013, Rollo Tomassi put out his infamous SMV chart that where he asserts that men's absolute peak was 36 (let's say roughly 35-40) and women's peak was 23 (let's say roughly 20-25).

I disagree about the point where men peak in life. I think men peak around 25-30. The reason for this is that it is difficult to pull off larger age gaps in extended relationships. A 27 year old man has a good chance of seducing and retaining a 22 year old for the longer term. That's a normal and societally acceptable age difference. A 40 year old man is going to have a lot of challenges with seducing and maintaining relationships with 21-25 year old women, even better than average 40 year old men.

There's a reason why the typical 30s/40s man is a thirsty man who ends up settling for some mediocre to subpar woman close to his own age. That's not a man's true peak.

I think the 50th percentile guy at 27 is better positioned than the 50th percentile guy in his early 40s.

A lot of younger men (this is true of both @Barrister and myself) have to spend a good portion of younger adulthood de-programming from blue pill beta male conditioning that came from mothers, sometimes fathers, the grandparents' generation, and K-12 school teachers who are mainly female. This can take a while and some men truly never de-program from the blue pill, AFC, beta male ways.

I will agree with you on the bolded portion. My post you responded to was obviously contingent on the man staying in good shape. And I would say only a very small percentage of men stay in good shape past age 30 let alone into their 40s. Most guys even in their 30s I know are beer guzzlers that rarely if ever participate in physical exercise unless they must for their jobs. However, I would maintain that if that does happen (a man stays in good shape) a man's true SMV peak is in his mid-40s. Now, will an 18 year old go for a guy mid-40s? Not many. But I am looking at more in the women ages 23-29 which are still absolutely well within reach.

 

[Barrister]

I remember I was with this social group of people bar hopping and this girl was all over this one guy. He told her his age, he was 33 and she was 24 at the time and she got so turned off and stopped talking to him then and there. The next day, she told us that she would've slept with him, but him being over 30 was a huge turnoff.

As the fisherman don't believe what the fish tells you about bait.

Since we are being anecdotal, when I was 33 I slept with 3 women who were 21 on the dot. My story has no more meaning than yours does, but you should never think something is impossible.

 

[CornbreadFed]

As the fisherman don't believe what the fish tells you about bait.

Since we are being anecdotal, when I was 33 I slept with 3 women who were 21 on the dot. My story has no more meaning than yours does, but you should never think something is impossible.

I am 30 and I bet you I could sleep with a 19-year-old right now. Does it mean she's going to be high quality? Idk, but I'll just say I slept with a 19-year-old on the internet. Any guy can bring some future single mom in writing to the local Applebees, impress her and bed her. Nobody is denying that it is impossible for an older man to get a younger woman, we are just saying that you will either take a dip in quality or have to pay for it with money.

 

[Smooth_texter]

I remember I was with this social group of people bar hopping and this girl was all over this one guy. He told her his age, he was 33 and she was 24 at the time and she got so turned off and stopped talking to him then and there. The next day, she told us that she would've slept with him, but him being over 30 was a huge turnoff.

I think that guys here always misinterpret the reason when a woman sleeps with an older guy.

Women were not attracted because of the age difference, they were attracted to for example the height, physique, wit or something else. If a guy has had an active life and good genes, he could provide those things in his 20s as well.

 

[SW15]

I will agree with you on the bolded portion. My post you responded to was obviously contingent on the man staying in good shape. And I would say only a very small percentage of men stay in good shape past age 30 let alone into their 40s. Most guys even in their 30s I know are beer guzzlers that rarely if ever participate in physical exercise unless they must for their jobs. However, I would maintain that if that does happen (a man stays in good shape) a man's true SMV peak is in his mid-40s. Now, will an 18 year old go for a guy mid-40s? Not many. But I am looking at more in the women ages 23-29 which are still absolutely well within reach.

It's good that we agree on the 50th percentile guy.

'Good shape' is subjective and 'good shape' sometimes isn't good enough shape. Looks wise, I am likely in the 6.5-7.5 range. My photos on Photofeeler were all rated 6.8-7.4. I've not been overweight by BMI and I remain active in a number of sports. My 'good shape' at 40 might not be good enough. I think it's looking like more of the 80-85th percentile or higher.

I've had some experiences with a narrower dating pool and struggling to get age gaps of 5+ years. Getting a 10+ year age difference after age 35 means a man is likely 90th percentile or higher.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I think that guys here always misinterpret the reason when a woman sleeps with an older guy.

Women were not attracted because of the age difference, they were attracted to for example the height, physique, wit or something else. If a guy has had an active life and good genes, he could provide those things in his 20s as well.

The interests of an average 18- or 21-year-old is going to more than likely be the interests of an average 18- or 21-year-old. More than likely, their top priorities is going to be some edgy hot jacked pretty boy Chad that can take her out to Applebees happy hour and bang her guts out in the parking lot, not an older male that cannot provide that "katy perry teenage dream" experience. There are women that do prefer the nicer things in life or maturity which seem go for older men.

 

[Barrister]

I am 30 and I bet you I could sleep with a 19-year-old right now. Does it mean she's going to be high quality? Idk, but I'll just say I slept with a 19-year-old on the internet. Any guy can bring some future single mom in writing to the local Applebees, impress her and bed her. Nobody is denying that it is impossible for an older man to get a younger woman, we are just saying that you will either take a dip in quality or have to pay for it with money.

Most if not all women require some financial maintenance from the man. That doesn't mean putting money in her pocket or paying for a new car for her, but generally speaking the man ends up paying for more things tangentially connected to the couple's activities. Maybe that isn't true if she is only a plate, but then that is a very temporary situation.

I would also disagree about the dip in quality. Again, this is anecdotal, but I have pulled way hotter women throughout my 30s than I did on average in my 20s.