reason versus emotion - lets get it on

[joekerr31]

ok, as per someones private message request...

a few real world examples of how reason versus emotion might work out...

example 1

man goes to nightclub with his girl. girl gets a couple beers into her. girl starts letting loose on the dance floor. other guys start rubbing up on her and shes enjoying it (original guy just sitting at bar or something). guy doesn't like this.

man's reaction - pouts. gets angry. drinks more. cold shoulders his girl. calls her a *****. asks her why she was being like that on the dance floor. any of these possibilities and more.

womans reaction - pretends to be confused. accuses man of being jealous. cold shoulders man. pouts. gets angry. wants to go home. wants man to go home and leave her there to have fun. any of these possibilities and more.

that's a typical emotion versus emotion real world example.

now, let's turn it into a reason versus emotion battle.

guy gets pissed watching his girl getting rubbed on by guys.
girl eventually takes a break.

conversation probably goes something like this...

girl: hey baby, how ya doing. you're just sitting there. you should get out there and dance.
man: I think we should head out.
girl: head out? why? I want to go dance some more.
man: that's cool. you have enough to take a taxi home right?
girl: why are you doing this?
man: I'm heading out. are you staying?
girl: what? what is going on? why are doing this? stay baby, stay.
man: i'll talk to you later. [man leaves, WITH a smile on his face]

now some will say thats not rational. but im assuming we are dealing with a guy who doesn't like what hes seeing transpiring.

you might say 'isnt the rational thing to tell her you don't?" NO NO NO - that just starts the emotional banter back and forth.

the reaction is reason based
- you don't like how the night is going, so you're changing it. you're picking your course of action. not complaining. not explaining. you're doing what's right for you.
- you aren't engaging her in a big conversation in a totally inappropriate location for such convo.
- you aren't responding to open ended questions like "why? what?". You don't have to answer to her, all you have to do is make sure she has cab fare home, or she has the option of leaving with you, her choice.
- YOU'VE made your choice. now she gets to make hers. you aren't looking for a big emotional back and forth banter, or to talk about why you're doing what you're doing. and no matter how she tries to turn the convo that way, you keep slamming the door shut and keep the situation in the black and white - stay or go - her choice, makes no difference to you.
- walk away with a smile (not a f*ck you smile, but rather a 'oh well, tonights a bust, can't wait to get home and catch the hockey game)

now, because you were able NOT to yell at her, not give her the cold shoulder, not get angry, etc. she loses ALL her power over you. she tried to sucker you into a big who what where why how conversation and you just walked away from it.

now to the aftermath. couples days later or whatever she wants to talk. she asks why you left etc. she's all upset and doesn't know whats going on with you guys etc.

this actually her just being totally confused how she wasn't able to control you with her emotional sh*t test. most guys would have just gotten pissed and either chewed her out or more likely kept it bottled up until they were ready to explode - and chics LOVE it when that happens. they have all the power - they can rip in to you for being a controlling *sshole, etc.

anyway, when you're totally calm and collected you just lay it out that you didn't enjoy watching her dancing like she was looking to talk home a one night stand.

when you say this, she will probably explode and start going in to 'how dare you. what are you talking about. i never. blah blah blah"

the moment she escalates the emotion, you kick back in with reason. saying something like "look, i'm not interested in an argument. you asked, i told you. if you want to talk about this more, next time call me when you aren't going to flip out." and then hang the f*ck up!

if she can't get her act together and talk like a mature adult then you have a low quality woman and you should dump her.

if you're thinking "hold on joekerr, if i do that i might lose her. what if i pull this reason stuff and she doesn't call me back."

thats the exact reason why guys don't last more than 5 minutes against women's emotional barrages. they dont realize it, but they engage in this bullsh*t arguing and crap because they think its a sign that the relationship is growing (hey she cares enough to fight with me). and they hope that after the arguing everything will be peachy and she'll suddenly see him as her knight again.

bullsh*t. all she thinks is "i whipped his *ss in to shape."

and on and on it goes until after enough years of this kind of stuff the man goes "OMG, someone help me. i think im an AFC"


emotion versus emotion
- woman acts like a slut and man ends up feeling like he's a jealous loser

reason versus emotion
- woman acts like a slut. man smiles and walk away. man is the PRIZE, woman is the child who couldn't behave.


if a woman pisses you off that much, go home and do a work out. shadow box or something to vent. but whatever you do don't engage in an emotional battle.

anyway, men don't even realize they are doing it because they are use to reacting emotionally in all areas of their life. they get mad at some guy they punch him, or, if they are wearker, they run away and sulk. when you master reason you can out think your opponent and use their own emotions against them.

but reason will never make any sense to guys until they realize that sometimes the REASONABLE thing to do is to walk away from an immature woman. you should TRY reason first, and if it becomes clear that she is never going to meet you in the land reason, just walk away!

there are women out there who will suck your **** a thousand times over BECAUSE you are reasonable. psychologically healthy and mature women want a man who is strong, decisive and reasonable - hell, that's what they consider a REAL man to be!

self destructive, psychologically attention *****s hate a reason based man because they can't get away with their bullsh*t.

anyway, not sure if that helped at all. the whole process of being reasonable and using reason over emotion could take pages and pages to explain.

 

[treefingers]

Well put, and I see what you are saying.

 

[jonwon]

ok, as per someones private message request...

a few real world examples of how reason versus emotion might work out...

example 1

man goes to nightclub with his girl. girl gets a couple beers into her. girl starts letting loose on the dance floor. other guys start rubbing up on her and shes enjoying it (original guy just sitting at bar or something). guy doesn't like this.

man's reaction - pouts. gets angry. drinks more. cold shoulders his girl. calls her a *****. asks her why she was being like that on the dance floor. any of these possibilities and more.

womans reaction - pretends to be confused. accuses man of being jealous. cold shoulders man. pouts. gets angry. wants to go home. wants man to go home and leave her there to have fun. any of these possibilities and more.

that's a typical emotion versus emotion real world example.

now, let's turn it into a reason versus emotion battle.

guy gets pissed watching his girl getting rubbed on by guys.
girl eventually takes a break.

conversation probably goes something like this...

girl: hey baby, how ya doing. you're just sitting there. you should get out there and dance.
man: I think we should head out.
girl: head out? why? I want to go dance some more.
man: that's cool. you have enough to take a taxi home right?
girl: why are you doing this?
man: I'm heading out. are you staying?
girl: what? what is going on? why are doing this? stay baby, stay.
man: i'll talk to you later. [man leaves, WITH a smile on his face]

now some will say thats not rational. but im assuming we are dealing with a guy who doesn't like what hes seeing transpiring.

you might say 'isnt the rational thing to tell her you don't?" NO NO NO - that just starts the emotional banter back and forth.

the reaction is reason based
- you don't like how the night is going, so you're changing it. you're picking your course of action. not complaining. not explaining. you're doing what's right for you.
- you aren't engaging her in a big conversation in a totally inappropriate location for such convo.
- you aren't responding to open ended questions like "why? what?". You don't have to answer to her, all you have to do is make sure she has cab fare home, or she has the option of leaving with you, her choice.
- YOU'VE made your choice. now she gets to make hers. you aren't looking for a big emotional back and forth banter, or to talk about why you're doing what you're doing. and no matter how she tries to turn the convo that way, you keep slamming the door shut and keep the situation in the black and white - stay or go - her choice, makes no difference to you.
- walk away with a smile (not a f*ck you smile, but rather a 'oh well, tonights a bust, can't wait to get home and catch the hockey game)

now, because you were able NOT to yell at her, not give her the cold shoulder, not get angry, etc. she loses ALL her power over you. she tried to sucker you into a big who what where why how conversation and you just walked away from it.

now to the aftermath. couples days later or whatever she wants to talk. she asks why you left etc. she's all upset and doesn't know whats going on with you guys etc.

this actually her just being totally confused how she wasn't able to control you with her emotional sh*t test. most guys would have just gotten pissed and either chewed her out or more likely kept it bottled up until they were ready to explode - and chics LOVE it when that happens. they have all the power - they can rip in to you for being a controlling *sshole, etc.

anyway, when you're totally calm and collected you just lay it out that you didn't enjoy watching her dancing like she was looking to talk home a one night stand.

when you say this, she will probably explode and start going in to 'how dare you. what are you talking about. i never. blah blah blah"

the moment she escalates the emotion, you kick back in with reason. saying something like "look, i'm not interested in an argument. you asked, i told you. if you want to talk about this more, next time call me when you aren't going to flip out." and then hang the f*ck up!

if she can't get her act together and talk like a mature adult then you have a low quality woman and you should dump her.

if you're thinking "hold on joekerr, if i do that i might lose her. what if i pull this reason stuff and she doesn't call me back."

thats the exact reason why guys don't last more than 5 minutes against women's emotional barrages. they dont realize it, but they engage in this bullsh*t arguing and crap because they think its a sign that the relationship is growing (hey she cares enough to fight with me). and they hope that after the arguing everything will be peachy and she'll suddenly see him as her knight again.

bullsh*t. all she thinks is "i whipped his *ss in to shape."

and on and on it goes until after enough years of this kind of stuff the man goes "OMG, someone help me. i think im an AFC"


emotion versus emotion
- woman acts like a slut and man ends up feeling like he's a jealous loser

reason versus emotion
- woman acts like a slut. man smiles and walk away. man is the PRIZE, woman is the child who couldn't behave.


if a woman pisses you off that much, go home and do a work out. shadow box or something to vent. but whatever you do don't engage in an emotional battle.

anyway, men don't even realize they are doing it because they are use to reacting emotionally in all areas of their life. they get mad at some guy they punch him, or, if they are wearker, they run away and sulk. when you master reason you can out think your opponent and use their own emotions against them.

but reason will never make any sense to guys until they realize that sometimes the REASONABLE thing to do is to walk away from an immature woman. you should TRY reason first, and if it becomes clear that she is never going to meet you in the land reason, just walk away!

there are women out there who will suck your **** a thousand times over BECAUSE you are reasonable. psychologically healthy and mature women want a man who is strong, decisive and reasonable - hell, that's what they consider a REAL man to be!

self destructive, psychologically attention *****s hate a reason based man because they can't get away with their bullsh*t.

anyway, not sure if that helped at all. the whole process of being reasonable and using reason over emotion could take pages and pages to explain.

I like this, is there any sources to learn more about this?

Nice post i can see this being the postive reaction to cr** from a women.

emotional responses dont normally go well for the guy, as experiance will show.

I would like to know more about this, if possible.

 

[jophil28]

Excellent !! I am planning to use this stategy the next time some woman plays her games. Maybe this weekend ?
J.

 

[boxcutter]

How would watching her dance like a slut, and then when she takes a break tell her we are going to go home, give her the "I'm going to **** you look". If a man doesn't get upset after an obvious test like this, and instead embraces it as a way to show his dominance and confidence, then most women will swoon.

It is more anti-reason vs emotion.

Anti-reason and emotion are both good ways to describe those fiesty females.

 

[resilient]

Well put Joekerr.

I'm learning how to deal with AWs better these days after the last psycho ex. With my new g/f I watch and see how she flirts with other guys. If it's blatant kino, lots of smiles, and she doesn't introduce me when I'm there in the room/bar with her she gets deducted some points as I'll remember this.

Most AFCs let crap happen, rationalize it and then let it keep happening until blowing up. Self-control is good because she wants to see if the man will get pissy and call her out on her AW behavior. It's the sh!t test of possessiveness. As soon as the guy shows his jealousy card, she rationalizes cheating because her man is not being secure with himself as the prize.

If the DJ acts cool, calm, and collected than he in turn can think to himself: Her behavior just lost her interest level percentage in his own eyes. She will get dumped eventually for her behavior. No regrets for walking away.

It's hard to find women out there with high self-esteem who don't need a harem of guys for an ego boost. Those women are out there - they are just hard to come by or keep attracted in the long term since they make the DJ qualify hard as her chosen prize.

 

[WaterTiger]

Very nice post! Are you going to do a series? (With more examples?) I think you have a good idea going here!

 

[MatureDJ]

This reminds me of the courtship of Brother Jed Smock and his wife, Sister Cindy. (For those of you that have never heard of them, they are a rather famous preacher couple that goes around universities.) Cindy was the "disco queen" at the U of FL and became attracted to him because when she would triy to seduce and drama him with the typical carrying on of an attention wh0re, barroom broad, he wouldn't flinch. He remained the real man, and her respect for him blossomed into a high level attraction.

 

[joekerr31]

How would watching her dance like a slut, and then when she takes a break tell her we are going to go home, give her the "I'm going to **** you look". If a man doesn't get upset after an obvious test like this, and instead embraces it as a way to show his dominance and confidence, then most women will swoon.

It is more anti-reason vs emotion.

Anti-reason and emotion are both good ways to describe those fiesty females.

1) you dont tell her WE are going home, you tell her YOU are going home.

2) you don't give a 'im going to f*ck you look" you give her a tempered smile and the "You just lost your PRIZE status in my mind baby. Now i get to go watch the hockey game." look.

3) most women would NOT consider you sitting there watching her rub up on other guys confidence OR dominance. they would view it as 'this guy lets me do whatever the hell i want and doesn't get upset. this could be fun." but make NO mistake about it - they DO NOT respect you. You're their AFC at this point and they will bust your balls in every situation they can down the road.
yes, doing what i suggest might end the relationship all together BUT, better to cut your loses knowing that she's never goign to be the one for you.

4) my advice is based on a couple of assumptions a) you only want to be in relationships where IL is equal OR hers is higher than yours (being reasonable won't hurt you in these cases, but rather will strengthen you). b) you're playing for long term results, not short term. anyone can get a chic into bed for a month, but can you keep her putting out hard for 2 years? if she respects you she will.


5) the scenario i described is also about a scenario where the females behavior is obviously disrespectful. ya, if she goes and dances for 10 minutes and isn't being an attention *****, then my response would NOT be reasonable - in fact it would be unreasonable. but i disagree that when a woman does something like in the example and the guy gets furious, that the best course of action is to simply repress that anger. the best course of action is to whip out your reason and deal with things.

look, reason isn't a "trick" that can be applied across all scenarios. reason is a way of thinking.

i'd also like to take your response and quickly apply it to a work situation. you're in a meeting and someone higher up the food chain than you is putting forward ridiculous idiotic propositions. based on your logic the best thing to do is to just sit there and say nothing - somehow that will show them that you are confident and secure. and you know, nothing wrong with that, 80% of people do that.

or you could fly off the handle and tell them how stupid their ideas are. which about 10% of the people do. usually looking like idiots themselves - even if they are right.

OR

you can be reasonable. you can present, without emotion or judgement or sarcasm, why you think the ideas being put forth will have a negative effect. IF they react emotionally and tell you that you don't know what you are talking about and blah blah blah (an emotional defensive position), you can either say 'that's fine. i'm just giving you my feedback".

when the project tanks you'll look like a leader, because you stood up and let folks know that they were making a mistake (and you weren't emotional when you did it).

anyway, the only people i've ever seen get ahead in the work place are those that are able to be reasonable. now, many of you will say 'come on, there are lots of idiots at the top'. i agree, but it took them 20 years to get there. you can get to the top in 4-8 years by using reason (and make more money than those who it took 20 years to get there).

i appreciate the rebuttal, and in some situations your point is valid, but in the example i gave i don't think it is. if shes out dancing dirty with other guys for extend periods of time in front of you she's trying to assert to you that SHE is the PRIZE. any time a woman over exerts herself to make sure you know that you ARE NOT the prize and that she IS - its time to lay the reason smack down on her.