Rapport

[jophil28]

Well I don't know that you really shown the community success that your mindset has brought you. You posted a conversation example where there was no rapport really just you breaking through her frame. Which is not bad or anything but it hardly has much to do with rapport or an abundance mentality.

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Hmmm, on the surface ,it would appear that Keto has a valid point. However if we read the convo again there is a deeper "rapport" being established here.
Most guys who attempt to establish rapport go into a set of behaviors which I call the "nodding dog". They agree with everything that the woman says and , in doing so, they look like one of those toy dogs which just nod their heads up and down.

She ," I love Italian food"
He," Me too -Lasagne "
She ,"Do you like Thai ? "
He," My second favorite "
She,' How about sports "
He, " I play tennis and bowl "
She," I hate bowling "
He, " YEah, I dont do it that much anymore."

He is trying to establish a kind of cheap cheesy rapport by finding common ground... boring and fake and she knows it, and feels it ..he is agreeing in order to gain her approval - another form of supplicating. She has him in HER frame.

In Gurus' convo he appears to set up rapport in a different way by establishing his willingness to banter and spar with her without any fear of her disapproval, and in so doing, perhaps gains a higher form of respect and admiration.. The "worthy opponent" mindset ?

Much like two opposing generals who have dinner together . They start out as rivals but build a friendship as the meeting progresses - there is a deep rapport established on character strength . I have seen this phenomenon at work many times with women .
I have felt their interest and attraction grow as I demonstrated my willingness to speak openly and risk their DISAPPROVAL.

 

[guru1000]

Well I don't know that you really shown the community success that your mindset has brought you. You posted a conversation example where there was no rapport really just you breaking through her frame. Which is not bad or anything but it hardly has much to do with rapport or an abundance mentality.

Actually, I was requested to share an example of QUALIFICATION.

Real rapport is like building a house, brick by brick.

But as Jophil has mentioned, there are several dynamics in play at once. This display of character will sometimes spin rapport milestones ahead in a much shorter time frame.

Abundance mentality is in play if you look a little deeper.

What you did though is demonstrate there was a reward when you said she was a "9.5" "and "hard to crack". Now if she was a 5.5 what reward would there be?

"Hard to Crack" means even going into the third date, we are still sparring. With most women , I will take control of the frame within the first hour on the first date.

I never stated she was a REWARD aka PRIZE. I simply stated she is a 9.5 in the looks department. It takes alot more than good looks to get me motivated.

A 5.5 , I would not do.

However I would take High Quality 8 vs a Medium Quality 9.5 any day. Neither would be my prize or reward. She would be a supplement to my lifestyle. If she has EARNED my attention by exhibiting core compatibilities, I will then reward her with my exclusivity.

A woman will never be my REWARD or PRIZE. My rewards come from my goal oriented lifestyle independent of a woman.

Anyway to give you an example of what I'm talking about this weekend I passed up on a sure lay with one girl because she's not slim enough for my taste and another woman because she's not young enough for my tastes. I passed up PUing on several girls that I could sense were ripe to be PU because they did not meet my standards and I didn't see it as a reward even if I got them.

Ok so you passed up on all these women because they have not met your physical minimum standards. Im with you so far.

Instead, I'm working on a girl who I think is a 9.5 and would feel a reward from getting. And when I say 9.5 I mean out of litterally thousands of girls I've come across she's one of the top 2 or 3. If you're expecting me to give a LR from this 9.5 sorry to dissapoint you but the fact is there's no abundance of girls like this and they are very particular about who they choose.

Seems like the frame is in place before you even tried.

I give you 100:1 odds, you will not win over your "PRIZE". (Reword the bold, it makes me shake)

When I hear someone in their 30's say they have an abundance of young 9.5s, I'm going to need some hard evidence before I'm going to believe we are talking about the same things. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I don't claim to have a harem of 9's, but you do.

O now you are qualifying me. LOL. Try this TACTIC on the 9.5, maybe you would have a shot.

Where are your FR, LR, and details of cold approaching? Your advice is always theorectical.

I dont mind sharing FR if requested. I personally don't find success in winning over women I am not corely compatible with.

A LR , I would never do. Sex is simply a by-product of being a man, not the goal. My motivation is not to have sex but rather find one that is most compatible with me. When this happens, as I have not been exclusive for 8 months, I will definitely share.

You are the one making all the claims so the burden of proof is on you.

I have nothing to prove. Everyone knows you are the STUD around here. :nervous:

 

[Tazman]

If we as MEN were to focus on RAPPORT alone as the foundation, we would realize interest level and value are simply the by-products.

I think it's a two-way street, rapport is often times a byproduct of interest and value. You cannot get meaningful rapport where there is no interest or value. Rapport is just one important ingredient of interest and value.

You know, I have to agree with this based on my experience. There's a woman at my job who I feel likes me. I'm not a very social person with people I'm not close to or friendly with, usually. I've said hello to this woman in passing maybe a little fluff talk here and there, but I never really make an effort.

However, anytime she initiates conversation or addresses me she makes herself very easy to talk to, very attentive. It's almost like we'll have good rapport whether or not I want it, lol.

My point is that, rapport isn't really something you can control. Both parties have to make an effort. Often when one says they didn't have good rapport with someone, it really means, for whatever reason, they just didn't like him/her. Of course, being very social makes things easier, like breaking the ice etc., but like Keto said, it's only "one important ingredient".

 

[ketostix]

Hmmm, on the surface ,it would appear that Keto has a valid point. However if we read the convo again there is a deeper "rapport" being established here.
Most guys who attempt to establish rapport go into a set of behaviors which I call the "nodding dog". They agree with everything that the woman says and , in doing so, they look like one of those toy dogs which just nod their heads up and down.

She ," I love Italian food"
He," Me too -Lasagne "
She ,"Do you like Thai ? "
He," My second favorite "
She,' How about sports "
He, " I play tennis and bowl "
She," I hate bowling "
He, " YEah, I dont do it that much anymore."

He is trying to establish a kind of cheap cheesy rapport by finding common ground... boring and fake and she knows it, and feels it ..he is agreeing in order to gain her approval - another form of supplicating. She has him in HER frame.

No I agree with you. In the example you gave that is seeking phony rapport as opposed to real rapport which is a two-way street. But my point is guru's example wasn't really technically rapport. It was more of pre-rapport. You can have attraction and value without rapport and the woman will be seeking rapport from you. It's a two-way street and rapport is like I said one ingredient of seduction, but you can have value and interest with or without rapport.

I'm not trying to do dog guru, but what he said is pretty well known in the community. The thing is he likes to play with semantics and make things personal. When I say a girl who is attractive is a reward he twists it around into me saying "prize" and on and on.

But back to raport, you can have rapport without the focus really being on you or the girl. You could be telling a humorous story and you have interest and value. It's similar to vibing.

 

[reset]

Constant teasing. Make sure she's laughing and hitting your arm, giggling, etc. Qualify. She's on trial. It's a FUN trial, but she's the one on that witness stand. Not you. Always her. Always qualifying to you. Always. And laughing and blushing while she's doing it.

This is what I've figured out though. I'm not really a player yet like most of you guys, but this is what has worked for me.

I'm starting to think connecting deeply is over-rated in the beginning. And why "trick her" into thinking you're deeply interested in HER, when you aren't. That's her job. Get you to think she's the best. Not your job. Be fun, dangerous, mysterious, arrogant, rough around the edges, but still a gentleman at the same time. Stuff I'm picking up.

 

[jonnnb]

Here is a little EXCERPT from a recent third date with a HB 9.5. This one was a very tough cookie to crack. She was very witty, in her early twenties. A natural , a bit immature as I am sure her looks compensated and gave her an overinflated ego.

Just look at the dynamics at play here. It is quite interesting.

Thanks I enjoyed reading the exert, you could sense the rapport even just reading the words. Ive always wanted to read a MM's FR, to see the flirting flow of a socially fluent over28yo man.

As Alot of FR's or youtube clips arent really relevant for someone who nolongers clubs or isnt in uni anymore

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I hope you, and the other accomplised men when it comes to horsewhispering women, post more FR's. Also, excellent analysis of the conversation by jophil in post21

 

[#41]

Much like two opposing generals who have dinner together . They start out as rivals but build a friendship as the meeting progresses - there is a deep rapport established on character strength . I have seen this phenomenon at work many times with women .

I have felt their interest and attraction grow as I demonstrated my willingness to speak openly and risk their DISAPPROVAL.

See, I read the conversation and think to myself "If I pulled that kind of a stunt, I'd be passed off immediately as a pretentious, self-important ****bag."

 

[guru1000]

See, I read the conversation and think to myself "If I pulled that kind of a stunt, I'd be passed off immediately as a pretentious, self-important ****bag."

It would appear that way at the surface.

However there are many dynamics at play here. This was a typical sparring match for control of the frame. When a girl tries to increase her perceptual value, she is indirectly decreasing yours. Context is KEY here.

She was a NATURAL. This means in her previous interactions, she most often controlled the frame. This was a classic DUEL; two naturals at battle. Only one winner.

When a girl makes an OVERT attack, she is reacting defensively due to her feeling of loss of control. She will often become defensive before surrendering to your frame. This is important to recognize and address.

With an OVERT attack such as,

You seem too ****y and self-centered. I don't know if there is enough room for anyone except you in there.

I will respond POSITIVELY, CHALLENGE her and then DIVERT the focus back to her thus reversing the QUALIFICATION dynamic.

Remember,

DJ's do not fear women, nor do they fear offending them.

Not to be confused with intent to offend but rather not in fear of responding to them accordingly.

More importantly, one with an abundance mentality KNOWS there is another attractive girl somewhere that CRAVES his valuable attention. Essentially, a dime a dozen. And the fact that one girl out of many will not feel your flow simply isn't that important.

 

[guru1000]

However, anytime she initiates conversation or addresses me she makes herself very easy to talk to, very attentive. It's almost like we'll have good rapport whether or not I want it, lol.

My point is that, rapport isn't really something you can control. Both parties have to make an effort. Often when one says they didn't have good rapport with someone, it really means, for whatever reason, they just didn't like him/her. .

It's a two-way street and rapport is like I said one ingredient of seduction, but you can have value and interest with or without rapport.

I agree, communication is very easy with a girl who has high interest level in you. Hey lets face it, a girl with High IL will do anything to hop on your knob and declare you KING if you are the PRIZE.

The rapport I speak of is a deeper connection. It is the type that demands core compatibilities as a pre-requisite. It is the type of communication and understanding that is easy flowing with core internal boundaries already in place.

This kind of compatibility is key to a successful LTR. This is what I look for in potential candidates.

Just because a girl has HIGH IL and tries her best to communicate with you, does not mean she shares this level of compatibility (rapport) with you.

 

[reset]

DJ's do not fear women, nor do they fear offending them.

Hell yeah. This is the big difference between how I used to be and what I am, and continue to become. I think men grow up with women on the pedestal, she's the goddess, she's always "right" because she's sexy. So the way to get her, is to re-inforce that frame. You say "yes you are the goddess. Let me worship at your feet. And here's a mixtape I made of love songs that remind me of you." It's very warped.

And this must be how MANY if not most men, treat an attractive woman. Because when you do the opposite of that, and not only show that you don't fear them, but that you actually enjoy MAKING them qualify to you, THAT'S when they get aroused. And it's fun. You can literally see them get excited at the challenge that lays before them. And they want more. The more you do it, the more they want you. I have to assume that this is not how most men have treated these women.

I think that just showing that you aren't bowled over her presence... I mean yeah you're attracted. Sure you want to sleep with her, she'll pick up on that. But that's just primal. But it doesn't overwhelm you. She doesn't overwhelm you. The fact that she's hot, in your eyes, doesn't really mean much and I don't think she's used to that. Is there a brain there? Creativity? Intelligence? You don't know. You find out by setting challenges to her. Ball-busting. These exchanges are how you actually get to know each other, but it's done in the proper frame, you as dominant, her as submissive, proving herself to you.

 

[guru1000]

And this must be how MANY if not most men, treat an attractive woman. Because when you do the opposite of that, and not only show that you don't fear them, but that you actually enjoy MAKING them qualify to you, THAT'S when they get aroused. And it's fun. You can literally see them get excited at the challenge that lays before them. And they want more. The more you do it, the more they want you.

This is KEY for most DJ's to understand. When the pedestal is kicked and the girl is brought into your frame and context, she will UNDERSTAND very quickly she needs to step it up.

In other words, you have set such high value for yourself, she must QUALIFY for your attention. This is the correct CONTEXT.

I think that just showing that you aren't bowled over her presence... I mean yeah you're attracted. Sure you want to sleep with her, she'll pick up on that. But that's just primal. But it doesn't overwhelm you. She doesn't overwhelm you. The fact that she's hot, in your eyes, doesn't really mean much and I don't think she's used to that. Is there a brain there? Creativity? Intelligence? You don't know. You find out by setting challenges to her. Ball-busting. These exchanges are how you actually get to know each other, but it's done in the proper frame, you as dominant, her as submissive, proving herself to you.

When a girl is strong in the looks department (9 or above), the best way to keep the correct CONTEXT is to make very clear looks play second fiddle to compatibility. A DJ who has HB9+'s crawling all over him, gives no significance to appearance. So what else can this girl bring to the table that distinguishes her from the pack?