i don't judge really just tell it like it is. Of course its both parents fault but why do you see a trend of single mothers? a woman has to know by now getting pregnant out of wedlock or not getting to know the guy very well could lead to disastrous results. Just like cocaine back in the day when it was new. Now you know what time it is when you attempt to do or sell drugs either end up in jail or dead. Those are the circumstances so why do men or women keep getting in the same situation over and over again when they know their partner is either flawed or not into them. You have to wake up and smell the coffee sometimes.
raised by a single mother
- Thread starter Heretolearn
- Start date
englishman
Master Don Juan
Why the put down (a board full of men crying? about how they dont have daddies?) why not? maybe men need to feel some grief about this and figure it out so they can be the kind of fathers that arent 'pieces of sh1t' as you call them.
One good starting point would be for the majority of women, the courts and certain female celebritys to STOP the huge and I mean huge disparitys in the way men and women are viewed as parents....
In short, we make as good a parents as you, and were not walking wallets, also women get to decide IF the baby is born, men dont!
If I dont want the baby and you do, its born and I have to pay.....
If I really want the baby and you dont, its aborted and Im heart broken....
If we break up, cause a. Im a rolling stone or b. your a slut or c. thousands of other reasons, you get the custody, I get the bill and thats just plain un equal....
Rollo Tomassi
Master Don Juan
Re: Long, but worth the read
Statistically children raised by single mothers have higher incindences criminal behavior, drug/alcohol abuse and psychological disorders. And this is contrasted with single fathers having lower incidences of all of these. To be fair though, women are (barring drug abuse or criminal activities themselves) almost universally awarded custody of children in divorce settlements and therefore are in the majority in single parenthood, however it is involved fathers who're in the majority when they assume the primary parent role after a single mother can no longer deal with a child's behavioral problems. It speaks well of an involved father's abilities when statistically they are the catalyst for correcting this behavior.
I have no doubt WYLDFIRE could pass a polygraph test about her sincerity of believing that she has no conscious agenda for pairing off with a father surrogate in her conscious sexual selection choices. This all presumes that she and women like her are aware of the reasons they find one man more attractive than the next, or why one guy got it and the other didn't. This is why it's of utmost importance to observe behavior.
This is realtive. If you base your generalization on WYLDFIRE as the model then perhaps you have a case, but I sincerely doubt that the single mother who gave birth at 17 and is limited in her options and life choices from going to be any wiser or better off for being so. I highly doubt that the limitations she endures as a result are any less limiting to that child. It's almost a cliche to think of divorced parents in these melodramatic roles of A-Hole, drunk, abuser Dad and saintly, matron-martyr Mother who sacrificed all for her son/daughter to go to pre-med school. I can't think of a more damaging mythology that deconstructs positive masculinity. Is it any wonder that anything even remotely masculine is villified and ridiculed in popular media today? Neither one of your parents are exclusively angels or devils - Mommy picked Daddy and Daddy picked Mommy - and unles you we're the result of your Mother being raped, you are the result of both their decisions for better or worse.
Statistically children raised by single mothers have higher incindences criminal behavior, drug/alcohol abuse and psychological disorders. And this is contrasted with single fathers having lower incidences of all of these. To be fair though, women are (barring drug abuse or criminal activities themselves) almost universally awarded custody of children in divorce settlements and therefore are in the majority in single parenthood, however it is involved fathers who're in the majority when they assume the primary parent role after a single mother can no longer deal with a child's behavioral problems. It speaks well of an involved father's abilities when statistically they are the catalyst for correcting this behavior.
As I stated on my page 2 post,..
I also point this out here as well,..
And again here:
Romantic idealisim is irrelevant in this dynamic. Both men and women are subject to subconscious motivators of their behavior. So while a single mother may be the most down to earth human being you know, there is still this impetus behind her behavior for sexual selection. In the same manner, the most pious, saintly man you know is also motivated by his own psycho-biological hardwiring to get after it with as attractive a fertile female as his conditions permit the options for.
I have no doubt WYLDFIRE could pass a polygraph test about her sincerity of believing that she has no conscious agenda for pairing off with a father surrogate in her conscious sexual selection choices. This all presumes that she and women like her are aware of the reasons they find one man more attractive than the next, or why one guy got it and the other didn't. This is why it's of utmost importance to observe behavior.
iqqi
Master Don Juan
alot of single mothers WERE married, or with the father for YEARS.
you see a trend of single mothers, because the father just walks away. ask yourself why it is easier for them, and thank your lucky stars, or atleast give credit to mom for not leaving you too.
i am not putting down anyone feeling greif, i am putting down that the blame is all on the women. when it should mostly be put on the men who left their sons and daughters.
and this is probaly the answer to why men walk away so easy. i mean, it is just about the fvcking $ right?
actually most of the single mothers i know are NOT looking for a father for their child at all.
the ones my age are looking for that romantic man for THEIR needs still, and the ones my own mothers age are usually still single. i can't think of hardly any situation where if there IS a new man in the house, they have become daddy. more like an uncle, with the affection for the child, and sometimes a little doting.
Tell her a little about yourself, but not too much. Maintain some mystery. Give her something to think about and wonder about when she's at home.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.
englishman
Master Don Juan
Hi iqqi, I said "the women get the custody and the men get the bill."
So im not saying its all about the $ but I am saying that almost without fail women get custody of the child! and thats here in north america where you cant pick up a paper or turn on the t.v. without hearing about equality! so wheres the equality? fvct if I know?
Re: Re: Long, but worth the read
Again...it is MEN who believe this is expected of them...that it is their purpose in life...to provide for, protect and procreate. As a result, men believe that this is what women look to them for. They USED to, but don't anymore. Men just can't seem to adjust to the changes that have taken place since women became able to support themselves.
Christ Rollo...if I had the "subconscious" agenda then why have I not even been interested in a second date with every man I've dated in the last 5 years? The subconscious is strong...and if you were correct about what you are claiming then I would have at least given those men more of a shot than I did.
Again...it is MEN who believe this is expected of them...that it is their purpose in life...to provide for, protect and procreate. As a result, men believe that this is what women look to them for. They USED to, but don't anymore. Men just can't seem to adjust to the changes that have taken place since women became able to support themselves.
englishman
Master Don Juan
Re: Re: Re: Long, but worth the read
Come on, thats just not the case, thats what women say, but definetly not what they show through there behaviour, even if a women has a good income and a proffesion she will still want to 'marry up' to someone who makes more than her.
englishman
Master Don Juan
Re: Re: Re: Re: Long, but worth the read
Speak for yourself mate, I was raised by a single mom and Im sexy as ****, just ask the hundred and odd women Ive bagged!
Rollo Tomassi
Master Don Juan
Again you personalize the dynamic, but you really make my point for me here. Obviously I can only draw conclusions and make predictions from your observable behavior, but in the absence of this I can only go on what you, semi-anonymously, post here. Since I can't objectively watch your actions I have to make inferences and go on what I generally and observably know is true. Having stated this, I could easily make the case that all of the men you never gave a second chance to either:
A.) Falied to meet your cognizant or uncognizant criteria for a long term relationshp as modified by your establishing operations (i.e motivators for your behaviors such as deprivation).
B.) You failed to meet their criteria, again cognizant or uncognizant, for establishing a long term connection.
It's also possible that the men you initially find attractive and interesting enough to find as suitable long term candidates prove themselves insufficient to meet whatever conscious or subconscious motivators you posess that would make them so. Understand also that both A & B may be true for the same man.
Furthermore, I seem to recall you posting something about entertaining an LDR with some fellow you met online for quite a while now. Perhaps the potential emotional security that this guy represents for you (at a distance, interestingly enough) is influencing your behavior? Prior to that wasn't there something about a fiance dying? Again, these are big shoes to fill and finding, much less continuing, a relationship with a man willing to entertain a woman with these conditions and is a single parent is exceptional to say the least.
Your lack of wanting to date a guy more than twice should also be qualified by how much you actually date. If you've only had 3 dates in 5 years it only serves to strengthen my argument; particularly if you limt yourself in this online LDR fascination you have. Again, I can only speculate from what you honestly post here and even if you feel you are being genuine, what's to say this isn't modified by what you'd like to be true and have mental schema for?
Is it, or are both sexes subject to their own intrinsic motivations? Perhaps we're equally at fault and it's a problem rooted in both NATURE and nurture for men and women?
Support is tossed around as a pretty broad term these days. By your statement here one would think women were bastions of independence, lighthouses in a stormy sea of life and ready for any challenge tossed at them by these 'men-children' in their innability to overcome their biological programming.
Forgive me if I've exagherated your point, but tell me this; if women are so predominantly capable and self-supporting, why then do the seek male attention? If all the benefits provided by a man have been succesfully made obsolete through women's newfound capacity for self-contentment, why then are so many discontent with men? One would think if this were the case that once a woman had experienced this independence she would shun intimacy with a man, yet they still seem to seek it in everything they do.
If these independent women are in the majority, why is this counter to practically every guy's (and a lot of other women's) assesment of their behavior?
Why does the 35 y.o. professional woman constantly bemoan that she "can't find any good men"? She's independent and self-supporting, one would think one man would do just as well as another, right? Why does the divorcee put herself "back on the market" if she's financially secure after the divorce? Why does the single mother of 3 even bother with dating? Afterall, she's self-sufficient and doesn't really need a man to complicate what must be a constant battle in having to be both a mother and father to her children, right?
The fact is, as I'm fond of saying, men and women were meant to be complimentary to each other. Support means a lot more than paying the bills and doing the chores. Support is financial to be sure, but it's also emotional, physical, nurturing, disciplining, fathering, mothering, encouraging, and the list goes on. Each gender has it's strengths and weaknesses that the other bolsters and compensates for. When we break the male/female intergender dynamic down to dollars and cents, pull your own damn weight and I'll pull mine mentality, both genders are cheapened to negotiation. This is egalitarianism at it's most brutal - both parties must shoulder their burdens equally and to the other's satisfaction irrespective of sex or gender role.
Want to know why divorce in western culture is an epidemic? Look no further than the naked commercialization of this egalitarianism.
So don't be so quick to tag men with the 'regressive' stamp. Again, you make my point for me; if you honestly beleve that men can't seem to adjust to this egalitarian view of sexual dynamics, perhaps it's because of this subconscious mental script that is the motivation to naturally adopt a role of support.
You'll cry a bloody river about how unsupportive your deadbeat ex husband is and his neglect to father his own children and in the next breath tell men to get over this inborn, psycho-biologically hardwired desire to be protective and supportive with regards to selecting a mate. Kind of confusing don't you think? So what's it gonna be?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Long, but worth the read
That little piece of paper and the pursuit of it has ruined many a relationship. No thanks...
No...not all women want to get married. Again, I am an example of one who doesn't. It would take choloroform, duct tape, rope and an act of God to ever get me to get married again. I didn't even really want to do it the first time but I was young and stupid and had pressure from all sides to get married. I was only 18 years old.
That little piece of paper and the pursuit of it has ruined many a relationship. No thanks...
I'm probably the most honest and open person on this forum. In fact, sometimes I'm too honest and blunt.
It's me who doesn't want a second date. Basically, the guy is always wanting to see me again and I just don't have any interest in seeing them again after getting to know them a little better. Some I just wasn't attracted to, some couldn't carry on an intelligent conversation if their life depended on it and some just turned me completely off with their behavior. American men just don't have a whole hell of a lot to offer in general. It's not just American women who suck...American men do too...again...IN GENERAL.
Not quite...I've never done the LDR thing. My best friend of almost 6 years I met online on a message board. He lives on the other side of the country. We aren't in a romantic relationship and have never been. There IS mutual romantic interest, but there is the distance and he has some issues that I just won't deal with in a relationship. Perhaps that will lead to more someday, but who knows. Ironically, I am the one who offers the emotional support moreso than he does. He'd be there for me in a heartbeat if I were someone who needed or reached out for that...but I'm not and I don't.
Yes, my fiance was killed. I did my grieving and that doesn't prevent me from getting involved with anyone else. I only get upset when someone insults him...just as I get upset when someone insults my children or anyone else I love. Yeah, I will always love him because we had a wonderful relationship and he was a great man. The one way that experience does affect me now is that I have no interest in a relationship that isn't really good. That's not emotional baggage...that's just being smart.
Children are not "baggage"...they are human beings. My children are blessings. Anyone who views them as baggage are, in my opinion, morally bankrupt.
Everything I post is honest...and I not only don't wear Rose Colored Glassed...I don't even own a pair. I'm a realist and don't do ulterior motives. If I want something, I say so. It might help you get a firmer grasp on how I think and deal with things by knowing I am an Al Anon veteran.
I never said men are "regressive". Don't put words in my mouth. I simply said that men have not adjusted well to the way society has changed. I don't think men are ignorant boors...I think they are lost...hence so many sites, books and seminars such as this one. Men have no clue what they are supposed to do now or what is expected of them. So...they cling to what used to be true many moons ago. Instead of adjusting to the new reality, men tend to try to force the new reality to fit the old ways. Doesn't work. Believe it or not, I am here to try to HELP men figure that stuff out. It's rare to find a woman who will be real and honest even when it makes them look mean. I don't care how I look to others...I care about what is real and true.
I don't cry about my ex not being a better father. To be quite honest with you...the man has Borderline Personality Disorder and is bug sh*t crazy. I'd much prefer he just leave me and the kids alone. He's alienated all of them and they want nothing to do with him. I've essentially provided for my kids on my own since 1994 anyhow. It's sad for our kids that he isn't a better father...but he did teach them how NOT to be at least.
As I've said before...I make frequent mention of my relationships on this forum because when I give advice and offer input I do it not from theories but from actual real life experiences because that is far more valuable than theories. It doesn't have any hidden meaning at all...it's nothing more than my personal style for giving input. A true story sheds much more light on a similar situation than a bunch of people advising to do something they have never even tried themselves because they have never even been in a similar situation.
Oh, and Rollo...it's pointless to try to analyze me. I'm a study of contrasts. You can easily see me from one extreme to another if you so choose...but both would be wrong. I'm not a bitter man hater and I'm not here looking for a man or attention. I am just a chick who can think like both a woman and a man at the same time and genuinely understand both...at once. For those who choose to let themselves hear what I have to say...there is MUCH wisdom to be gained from me...but to do so you really have to see me as just one of the guys.
Okay...that's all for tonight...work comes early tomorrow.
( . )( . )
Banned
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Long, but worth the read
*farts*
Oh so you were a natural when you stumbled onto the seduction community eh? Hitting the b!tches away with a stick was ya?
*farts*
You do realize that what you wrote DOES mean "regressive," right? You may not have used the word, but your argument is saying exactly that.
The problem I have with this is that it seems you're implying that it is men in general who need to wake up to the "new reality" and start adjusting to it as if we some how lack the ability to understand life/relationships and women are ahead of us. I don't see how one gender would need to some how "catch up" to the other, it sounds way too simplistic.
Overall, I think we need to play these "games" because men and women don't rely on each other the way we used too. If anything, men AND women are lost. Our environment is changing faster then our biology's. All the sites, books, and seminars on getting women are geared mostly to make money (playing on men's insecurities, just like a lot of feminine products marketed to women), I don't think it necessarily means more men are frustrated in their pursuits.
Have I misinterpreted you?
"Regressive" would indicate doing something intentionally. Men aren't struggling to adjust on purpose...they're just kinda lost...knowing things are different but not knowing exactly what it is or what to do...they don't know what is expected of them. Most women don't even know what they expect of men, either...or what they want. All they know is that being a provider just isn't enough anymore. I'm not saynig this stuff to call men dumb or insult them in any way. I'm simply trying to stress that the whole reason men today have a harder time with women than did previous generations is because women have more choices now and just providing isn't enough. Since women don't NEED to quickly find a man to take care of her she is more selective and picky...and they want more. Men aren't sure what else to do and women don't seem to be able to effectively communicate what else they want. This really should be so obvious and clear to all of you who found yourself at sites like this. You came seeking help with women because you didn't know what they wanted from you. Deep down you all know that what I'm saying is true but you're just too stubborn to admit that you don't have all the answers. You guys need to lay off the fronting and get real...that's the only way you'll accomplish anything.
englishman
Master Don Juan
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Long, but worth the read
But again I say.......raised by a single mom does not equate to A.F.C.
Yep, I did a search on hair styles if i remember rightly and i found a link to this site..... and yep, ive hit the *****es away with a stick, so believe it or dont, i dont give a fvck, however I definetly had a lot and have a lot to learn, as getting women doesnt mean success with women to me, knowing how to deal with em etc..does.
But again I say.......raised by a single mom does not equate to A.F.C.
As I said...women have no idea what they want in most cases. They only know it's more than someone to take care of them. The younger the girl, the more likely she will go for someone like you mentioned because young girls are typically stupid and don't know what they are doing. I was the same way when I was young. That's why I ended up marrying the WRONG kind of person. I chose to learn from my mistakes and it only took one bad relationship to teach me never to get involved with a man who doesn't treat me properly. That's something that comes with maturity. The guys here make the same mistakes women do...they go for women who hurt them.Originally posted by hartwell
selective and picky well i guess the thugs pimps, players, jerks and pretty boys they choose who knock them up and leave you hanging speaks well of their volumes.
Wow!
I know this will sound afc to some, but who cares!
It's sad to realize how bad things have gotten for both men and women...
Sometimes, I feel like the luckiest guy in the world to have found someone like my wife.
She has made me truly happy...
I come to this forum mainly to help other men out, and as a reminder of how lucky i am.
We've had some rough times but she's a wonderful lady.
Okay, I know this doesn't have much to do with this post, but i just want the guys here to know that happines is possible.
later
Sayno'
I know this will sound afc to some, but who cares!
It's sad to realize how bad things have gotten for both men and women...
Sometimes, I feel like the luckiest guy in the world to have found someone like my wife.
She has made me truly happy...
I come to this forum mainly to help other men out, and as a reminder of how lucky i am.
We've had some rough times but she's a wonderful lady.
Okay, I know this doesn't have much to do with this post, but i just want the guys here to know that happines is possible.
later
Sayno'
Just don't blame all on the young girls i see older women repeating the same thing over and over again. Some people never learn. Of course i believe you when you say that women are looking for more than just someone taking care of them. However bout the time they got it figured out most of them are in their mid thirties and with baggage and kids up to the ceiling that they are no longer cream of the crop for dj's and therefore are passed along for better talent.
