Quick Question I Need Answered

[DJF or John]

Okay, so I know this is probably the wrong section for this. But I wanted to make sure a number of people seen this before they move it to the Anything Else section.

My assistant sent out around 100 emails last week to some of my old clients and also some that I have purchased, and I have a lady that email ended up on the list, and she just left me a voicemail on my 800 number that,

" I am going to sue you for sending me spam. I am going to make an example out of you. "

Now, my list is all people that I have spoken to before, and also people from a Opt-In Email company that I brought the list from. (That's expensive I might add).

Now, what should I do here? Do I call my attorney up, do I let it blow over? Could I be fined for this though, even though I didn't intentionally mean to send spam out?

I mean, my name, contact number, everything is in my emails because I don't have anything to hide. But this just caught me by surprise, because this has never happened before and this chick was pissed off as hell.

- John

 

[DJF or John]

And ummm. Just to add.

I mean, she is a "white" woman too, and I am a "black guy." And even though I am not the typical black male, ummm, there's just a rule of thumb that Black men don't really stand a good chance in court against white women.

Lol, don't mean to racist lol.

 

[Nighthawk]

Tell her you'll sue her for making frivolous legal threats. Then sell her details to every other spammer.

 

[DJF or John]

Nighthawk I am just a little concerned because I only have about 4 years in business so far lol.

I haven't had any threats about lawsuits before.

So, if she tries to sue me, I mean, do you think she has a valid case or not? I know there's ton of spam going out, and I know that maybe one or two emails might have gotten to this lady.

And she's talking about sueing me for that. Now, I do have a couple LLCs with my profits spread out throughout them. But I haven't really read up on preparing for lawsuits, and I just don't want this chick to take some of my profits.

I mean, I worked hard as hell to get to where I am, and so yeah, this scared the hell outta me.

 

[Last Man Standing]

You can't get sued for sending an e-mail.

Did you purchase the e-mail? She'll have to go after that company!

Do you have a personal umbrella liability policy?

If you are incorporated then she'll have to go after the corporation and not you personally!

 

[PectoralisMajor]

Its a little concerning that a businessman of 4 years is unsure of how to deal with this.

I too have run my own business for roughly 4 years, quite successfully, and I would know how to deal with this.

My quick advice:

Some people, including customers can be complete d*cks - rule 1. Expect this occasionally. You have just met one. I dont know what was said in your email, but it sounds as if this is a definate over-reaction.

This person leaving you a voicemail threatening to sue - they obviously have WAY too much time on their hands to be bothered about this. Its very unusual.

If it were me, I would totally IGNORE the message. Its only when you receive something in writing, in the post you need to worry. Until then, put it down as an idiot that left you that message.

Under no circumstances phone to apologize, or write an email back. It will only remind them about you, and wind them up again.

Also, if you see them trying to phone again, do not answer.

My money is on this blowing over - dont sweat it fella !

What type of business are you in, that you need to send out emails to companies??

 

[DJF or John]

Thanks Peter, PRL, and others.

I run my own sales office. I sell a couple different services. All of the services I sell are for businesses, usually around $2-$10 million in revenue. I have a 7 person sales team and a assistant, to do many marketing efforts from Telemarketing, to Door-to-Door, and I also use SEO. That SEO is the bomb dude.

Yeah, I receive jerk off customers all the time. It was just that with all the CAN-SPAM laws and everything, I just didn't know if she had a valid claim or not and if I should just call my attorney up in the morning and get ready for her.

And the funny thing is, the emails that my assistant sent out were not bulk. The person's name and everything is always in the email, so they don't come up in a Bulk Folder.

I have an 800 service for my office, so I check it this morning and this lady is just mouthing off about sueing me for sending Spam.

So I was just a little nervous because, I didn't know if maybe I actually DID violate a CAN Spam law or something.

Well, this is pretty much over with. I'm calling my attorney in the morning anyway, so in case I do get a "letter in the mail" I will be ALREADY prepared to go to war with this bytch.

 

[ExploringOne]

If I had a $100 bill for every time I was threatened with a lawsuit...

At this point, best thing you can do, is ignore her. Do not contact her. Chances are all she wanted to do was vent a little steam.

Talk to your lawyer, he will tell you the same thing. She really doesn't have much of a case.

 

[DJF or John]

Update

No, I have received papers that I am being sued for this shyt.

I swear to you, it says that the guy is trying to get $1500 from me, because the email my assistant sent out didn't have all the CAN Spam stuff in it.

He said the subject line was deceptive. In the subject, it just simply says something about me calling him this week.

So, the subject line didn't state that it was about my services.

Now the thing is, I am in Michigan. The idiot is in Washington.

This is small claims court, and I just confirmed with the courts today, and by law, the Plaintiff has to take the Defendent to court IN THE DEFENDENT'S resident state.

So now, we are changing the venue of the case. Now, do you guys think that this guy is going to fly out to Michigan for a settlement of around $1500?

I mean, I receive Spam all the time, but I mean God damn. This guy received one fvcking email from my office, and he's just trying to make some easy cash. Why doesn't he get off his azz and make 400 calls a day LIKE I DO, and make it?

Plus, with this new change of venue, I doubt the guy would even show up...so should I countersue the guy?

- John

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

this chick was pissed off as hell.

You can't sue because you're pissed off. She has to prove that significant damages were incurred, or else the case would be laughed out of court.

 

[DJDamage]

Talk to a lawyer that is good at this stuff, I am sure he has a few tricks up his sleves.

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

Update

No, I have received papers that I am being sued for this shyt.

I swear to you, it says that the guy is trying to get $1500 from me, because the email my assistant sent out didn't have all the CAN Spam stuff in it.

He said the subject line was deceptive. In the subject, it just simply says something about me calling him this week.

So, the subject line didn't state that it was about my services.

Now the thing is, I am in Michigan. The idiot is in Washington.

This is small claims court, and I just confirmed with the courts today, and by law, the Plaintiff has to take the Defendent to court IN THE DEFENDENT'S resident state.

So now, we are changing the venue of the case. Now, do you guys think that this guy is going to fly out to Michigan for a settlement of around $1500?

I mean, I receive Spam all the time, but I mean God damn. This guy received one fvcking email from my office, and he's just trying to make some easy cash. Why doesn't he get off his azz and make 400 calls a day LIKE I DO, and make it?

Plus, with this new change of venue, I doubt the guy would even show up...so should I countersue the guy?

- John

I just read this statement. Your friend is going to have to convince the judge that your e-mail caused $1500 of damages. I don't know how that is possible.

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

Talk to a lawyer that is good at this stuff, I am sure he has a few tricks up his sleves.

Waste of money. You don't need a lawyer for small claims court and the claim in this case is ridiculous. If DJF sent thousands of e-mails to a big company and fuvked a router (i.e. knocking it out of service) and the company lost business, and they trace it back to DJF, yeah I'd say get a damn good lawyer.

Definetely not the case here. Like I said before, the person prosecuting has to convice a judge that the single spam e-mail costed $1500 in damages. Not likely.

 

[DJF or John]

TillTheEndOfTime,

I see exactly what you are saying and I was thinking the same thing.

I talked with the guy this morning, you know what he said?

He said "I receive a lot of spam all the time, but I only received ONE EMAIL from you John. But I want to make an example out of somebody."

So the guy is trying to "make an example" out of me.

And you know why I REALLY think he's doing it? Because he's in Washington State, I am in Michigan. When the guy started the sue, the courts messed up and put the hearing in Washington, when ACTUALLY, the hearing is supposed to be in MICHIGAN. Because when you small claims sue somebody, the court appearance must be in the state where the DEFENDENT IS.

So the guy is basically doing this, because he knows I can't come to Washington, so I will either settle out of court or just no-show.

But now that the venue will be changed, the guy would have to fly to Michigan for the case lol.

Now, I don't think the guy is going to do that.....now, should I also counter sue him?

There WERE NO damages. There was nothing that happened with this guy's computer. He told me himself, he is just trying to make an "example" for the Spammers lol.

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

Yes, you can countersue. Countersue on grounds that the suit against you is frivolous. Should the judge deem the case against you is infact frivolous, you can countersue for lost wages/revenue because you were forced to appear in court.

 

[DJF or John]

Also another thing the guy said.

He said I violated the CAN SPAM law, and here are the requirements for that law:

- You can't have misleading "From" and "To" names.
- You can't have a deceptive subject line.
- You have to give the guy an opt-out method.
- You have to put your physical address in the message.

Now, I had everything in there, but I didn't put my address in there. But the guy said he's sueing becasue of the subject line. As I remember, the subject line was around the area of

Re: Call Monday
or Re: Phone Call This Week

So he's saying that the subject line didn't say that the message was about my services.

So I violated the CAN SPAM law he says. Now that's a FEDERAL violation.

What does this have to do with this guy? How could this guy sue me? There wre no damages to this guy's system, nothing. It was just a simple email in his inbox, lol. Why couldn't he just delete it?

Thanks guys.

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

Also another thing the guy said.

He said I violated the CAN SPAM law, and here are the requirements for that law:

- You can't have misleading "From" and "To" names.
- You can't have a deceptive subject line.
- You have to give the guy an opt-out method.
- You have to put your physical address in the message.

Now, I had everything in there, but I didn't put my address in there. But the guy said he's sueing becasue of the subject line. As I remember, the subject line was around the area of

Re: Call Monday
or Re: Phone Call This Week

So he's saying that the subject line didn't say that the message was about my services.

So I violated the CAN SPAM law he says. Now that's a FEDERAL violation.

What does this have to do with this guy? How could this guy sue me? There wre no damages to this guy's system, nothing. It was just a simple email in his inbox, lol. Why couldn't he just delete it?

Thanks guys.

Yes such laws exist. There is one here in Canada at least aimed against telemarketers. If they phone a private house and you say "put me on the 'do-not-call list'" and they phone again after, they can get fined by the government if the person reports the incident. But fined by the GOVERNMENT. Not a private person.

CAN SPAM is also mediated by the government. It is a fine enforced by the government. He can REPORT you, but he cannot sue you based on violating the CAN SPAM act unless, again and again, he PROVES incurred damages on top ofthe violation. Otherwise, the government will review the report and see if there is grounds to fine you.

He can scare you as much as he wants with whatever acts, but he's not getting the money even if you did violate it. The government will. His incurred damages are $0 and that's what he will get from you in a PRIVATE suit.

Your ONLY remote chance of penalty is through the government. But #1) the law is a bit subjective and any reasonable doubt can easily save you. #2) The government wouldn't waste resources investigatng a case of a single e-mail reported from you as spam. It costs the government more money to file the damn report than they will get out of it.

P.S. The CAN SPAM act was aimed against individuals/groups who house spam servers all over the place and send out MASS e-mails with fake addresses and BLATANTLY deceitful/irrelevant subject lines like "very important news I discovered", "you have to see this", etc

 

[Call_Me_Daddy]

SPAMMERS UNITE!

Lets all spam so we can raise some money and help a fellow spammer out.


Spamming. The noblest of professions that further propels our society by telling you about useless products and flooding your inbox. What valiant men are these that help treat the human condition with cheap, disposable, and non-functioning wares.


No one, can save the day like Spamman
Inbox, will make you sway like that and
Beat for beat, rhyme for rhyme
Deep in Gotham, fightin crime
No one, can save the day like Spamman

Commissioner Gordon here!
Spamman & Inbox, we have a bit of a problem
There's trouble brewing in Gotham City
You MUST act fast!

"Spamman! Spamman! Spamman."

-RBX

 

[DJF or John]

TilltheEndoftime

Here's a copy of the law in Washington State. See if you could read this and tell me if this guy has a valid claim or not?

Washington State is a little different, check this out:

WHEN IS THE ANTI-SPAM LAW VIOLATED?

A sender of spam violates the law when commercial unsolicited
e-mail is either:

1) sent from a computer located in Washington, or
2) sent to an e-mail address that the sender knows, or has reason to
know, is held by a Washington resident


In addition, the spam must contain one of the following:

I) false information identifying the point of origin of the message or hiding
the true origin of the sender. [False Header - The Consumer Protection
Division of the State of Washington suggests that recipients of spam
check the emailer*s documentation to see how to show all the *header*
information about the message. This should reveal the true origin. Most
spam does not come from the place listed in the header.];

II)false or misleading information in the subject line. [ False Subject Line
-
The Consumer Protection Division of the State of Washington provides a
number of sample questions to help a recipient of spam to determine if
the subject line is false or misleading.

Does it accurately describe what is contained in the e-mail. For example,
does a subject line describing *important news about your taxes* contain
a message with information about a get-rich-quick scheme?

Is it a *come-on,* attempting to entice you to read the message?

Does it create a false sense of urgency?

Does it misrepresent the identity of the sender of the message?]; or

III) a third party*s e-mail address used without permission as the point of
origin of the spam. RCW 19.149. 3

A sender is deemed to have known that spam was sent to an
e-mail address held by a Washington resident, if that information is
available, upon request, from the recipient*s Internet Service Provider,
whose name is usually contained in the recipient*s e-mail address. RCW
19.149.3(2). As a result, a sender intending to send out a mass mailing
list of commercial unsolicited e-mail must first check the residency status
of every e-mail address on its list to ensure that none are held by
Washington residents. If the sender fails to check the residency of an
e-mail address, as long as it was available, the sender is deemed to
have known.

Therefore, it is very important that Washington residents have
their e-mail addresses available for verification. Washington residents
should contact their Internet Service Provider and request that the
provider disclose the residency of their e-mail addresses when asked.
If the Internet Service Provider is unwillingly to provide such a disclosure
service, Washington residents should consider changing providers. In
addition, Washington residents can register their e-mail addresses with
the Washington State Association of Internet Service Providers. The
Consumer Protection Division web site of the State of Washington
provides a link where Washington residents can register their e-mail
addresses.
An unwilling Internet Service Provider can forward any inquiries about
residency to this independent database.

WHAT TO DO WHEN SPAMMED

Individuals who receive spam in violation of the anti-spam law are
provided a private cause of action against the sender. Individuals can
bring a claim in Washington State Superior Court and can be awarded
$500 or actual damages, whichever is greater. RCW 19.149.5(1). A
violation of the anti-spam law also constitutes a violation of Washington*s
Consumer Protection Act. Individuals may file a consumer protection
lawsuit and may be entitled to attorney fees and an order prohibiting the
sender from engaging in future unlawful activities. RCW 19.149.4.

Individuals intending to take legal action need to be able to tract
down the sender. This can be accomplished by looking at the
commercial unsolicited e-mail message and locating where and how the
sender can be contacted to purchase its products or services.

 

[DJF or John]

So does this mean the guy can lawfully receive $500?

By law when you sue somebody you have to take the case to the Defendent's state.....but is this case different?