questions about Ross Jeffries

[The Iron Chef]

I know a lot of people think this guy is like a god and all, but I have some suspicions about him. His intentions doesn't seem all that clear to me.

Now, speed seduction is way to get laid, perfect for ONS. As I understand it, SS provides no provisions for maintaining any type of relationship. You simply can't use patterns over and over, cuz she will catch on by the 2nd or 3rd time she's heard it. This would explain why Jeffries does not have a GF. But still, I wonder just how often Jeffries himself gets laid, and the succcess rate of his techniques.

Jeffries claims his techniques / patterns are not lies. I looked at some of his patterns, and they basically involve convincing her that YOU are her ideal man, that you have everything that she ever wants. That's a pretty tall order. Needless to say, if you actually go into a relationship with her, you can't actually back up the claims in the patterns, so it makes you look like a liar.

I also question the fact that Jeffries uses female friends and assistants (Kim, for example). And of course when he demonstrates with these girls, his technique always works. Now, I don't know how much these assistants gets paid, but I don't understand why any woman would willingly be his friend, knowing what he does.

Back to the program in general, I can't help but notice that the seminars' audiences has a heck of a lot of computer technies, engineers, and foreign people. Naturally it tends to be these type of people that need the most help with women, and to them, Jeffries must seem like some ultimate savior, their last salvation. They must have paid a LOT of money to be in his seminars. For some reason, I have this mental picture of Jeffries and his women assistants, at the end of the session when everybody has left, just counting the dough and snickering. It's like he KNOWS his shyt won't work for a lot of his attendees, but if they complain that is doesn't work, he'll tell them "Well that's becuz you didn't have everything EXACTLY right. Your tonality was off here and there, your timing is off, you didn't use these exact words, etc". He can direct any problems back to the person, and never on his techniques.

In short, the way I see Jeffries is this: a very competant salesman. He sees that there is a market of desperate men out there, so he provides a product so lucrative and convincing that it's hard for anyone coming across it resist. He sells it, and certainly it works some of the time for some people, and as for people who it doesn't work for, any fault will be placed on the user for not using it correctly. It's a bullet-proof product!

Chance, since you fully support Jeffries, what are your views on this?

Gio, you mentioned that Speed Seduction leaves you with a bad taste. Could you pipe in here too?

anyone else?

 

[The Edge]

Originally posted by The Iron Chef:

In short, the way I see Jeffries is this: a very competant salesman. He sees that there is a market of desperate men out there, so he provides a product so lucrative and convincing that it's hard for anyone coming across it resist. He sells it, and certainly it works some of the time for some people, and as for people who it doesn't work for, any fault will be placed on the user for not using it correctly. It's a bullet-proof product!

anyone else?

Sniff! Sniff! Sniff!

It's that pungent smell again guys: and it only tells me one thing!!!:

Destini has a brother!!!!

The Edge "Some have it and some don't"

 

[B.Kennedy]

Originally posted by The Iron Chef:

He sells it, and certainly it works some of the time for some people, and as for people who it doesn't work for, any fault will be placed on the user for not using it correctly.

I can add something here, since I qualify as one of the people that SS hasn't worked for yet. Ross Jeffries has gone out of his way to speak with me and help me get through some of the confidence exercises, and he's given me some tips about some situations that I was in. Never has there been any blame or fault placed on me because of a technique not working. With the confidence building exercises, for example, I explained my problem, and he said "OK, don't do that, then, try this instead and tell me how well it works" and he gave me some alternate things to try. It was helpful.

So, yeah, he is a great salesman, because he stands by his product and even provides support. That's something you just don't see much more, and it's refreshing to see a salesman who is really willing to go the extra mile to make sure the product works for the customer.

Also, Iron Chef, you don't have the right understanding of what the patterns are supposed to do. It would help you to read up a little more about that, if you're really interested.

-Brian

 

[The Iron Chef]

Originally posted by The Edge:

Sniff! Sniff! Sniff!

It's that pungent smell again guys: and it only tells me one thing!!!:

Destini has a brother!!!!

The Edge "Some have it and some don't"

Before you start throwing any more pointless accusations around, know that I haven't read any of destini's posts (as soon as I saw how long his posts were, I hit the back button). I only know that he's against SS, beyond that, I don't know what's his exact position, his reasons, or anything that he preaches. In fact, would you do me a favor and summarize destini's posts for me, so I know what I am compared against?

What I wrote were based on my own experience with Jeffrie's program. Yes I have his tapes; I am a customer, but just because I paid for his program doesn't mean I'm obliged to fully support his ideas. I know that when one pays $300 for a product, he's psychologically connected to such a expensive investment, and tends to see it as positively as possible. Thinking about it positively justifies paying a high price for it, and Jeffries knows this. I bought it more out of curiousity than anything else, just to see what it's all about. There's a good chance I'll return it. Tell me Edge, do you have his program?

Now look, I'm not saying that SS doesn't work. I agree that it does! Jeffrie's program is remarkable in many ways, and I have learned many things from it. But, I question how WELL it works, and its flexibility.

I'm also more suspicious of Jeffries HIMSELF rather than his program. I have no doubt that his methods work (exact success rate unknown) when he uses them, that's because he is the expert. He knows how the mind works, and he's a professional practitioner of NLP. There's no way he can convey and transfer all that knowledge to people in his seminars. They only pick up bits and pieces. The success rate of his students must vary considerably, depending on how closely they can mirror Jeffrie's understanding, attitude, and ability. Jeffries claims that anyone and everyone can use his program. I don't see that happening. That sounds more like a business phrase to attract more customers than a truth.

 

[Siemer]

i, myself also had alot of questions about this SS thing, but the longer i think about it (also considering you points about Ross just getting on the mens insecurity train) the more i realize it works !!!IF YOU DO IT RIGHT!!! The moment that you realize it really works is somewhat weird. I felt very uncomfortable saying these patterns and weasel phrases to girls but that is because you dont expect them to work. When you say them out loud to yourself they sound sometimes a little corny but the girls just dont notice. I tried it on 3 girls of which i thought were pretty clever so i expected them to look weird and that they knew what i was doing. The opposite is true, if you do this in a right way they will start talking to you about things i would normally start talking about when knowing them 3 months or whatever. All this feeling and emotion stuff sounds like crap to us guys but to woman..... it blew me away. You just have to realize that woman DO actually think in a different way and if you ask them the right questions in the right way.. they will go along to where you want to take them. Im no star (yet haha ) to SS but i know it has got potential and if i work on the patterns etc... I think it is fun to experiment with because everytime i got to take these girls by the hand and lead them i got a sort of adrenaline rush.
so practice and try and see for yourself

p.s. ross is not god sojust give your own twist to patterns and weasel phrass etc

 

[congruence]

ross

You bring up a very good point, this suspicion has always been lingering in the back of my mind.

Btw: if you haven't seen any of Ross Jeffries' videos, his assitant Kim isn't that hot.. She looked like she was in her 50's...she's pretty gross to me..

Another thing is I tried using Ross's techniques but it just doesn't come naturally. I feel strange trying to become this "nlp poet" person. . . Anyway, right now I'm just focusing on David Deangelo's stuff.. I highly recommend it. He's a great teacher and he gives me the impression he's a totally honest, straight-up..(as opposed to RJ's sly aura).

I think any technique work if it's congruent with yourself and your identity.. You know, like if you just pattern the hell outta of a girl on the first date. . .and you run out of things to say later on, then your pretty much screwed.

 

[Lozz]

Yeh I see what you're saying and I think that his theories generalise too much for american women. They don't necessarily work in England. Different cultures require different methods. Not all women are the same. Also he comes up with cheesy lines which he believes are effective, but if were to use a line like that over here, I'd get my balls cut off.

 

[PatrickBateman]

JUST ANOTHER COWBOY

RJ is just another NLP "trained" cowboy who follows the crowley-ish (a)moral code of dealing with people. He has simply applied a field of knowledge (NLP) to a context (seduction). This is known as "generalisation" where you take an existing set of knowledge and "map it across" to another context, it is a rote style application of a very well designed hybrid of knowlegde (nlp).

Opportunistic, petty and ruthless are other words that come to mind.

"there is a sucker born every minute" -aliester crowley (when asked about the secret of his majik)

Ross is a really ugly baastard, and all the guys on his tapes sound like computer geeks who jerk off too much.

Of course I have the "highest repect" for him in a way though, for being such an amoral ruthless hardcore capitalist.

Dont waste your time with such pathetic "papering over the cracks" type stuff, that at best, will pick you up some very gullible, easily persuaded females, and also totally mess up your awareness. The liguistic skills are great, but they are available in thier pure form for you to then apply without having the cardboard cut-out , elementary school and outright warped and peverted "help" from the sexiest man on earth himself.

 

[Cesare Cardinali]

Patrick,

Did you actually try out Ross' stuff before making such comments? What is so ruthless about his stuff in your opinion? It seems like a pretty harsh term to employ.

Also, whether or not a person is ugly should not in any way influence the type of work they are capable of putting out. In fact, if he is ugly (I have not seen any photo of him and am assuming that you have), then this could make him even more credible as a seductionist since it would mean that he's had to develop something that would compensate for his lack of physically pleasing characteristics.

Also, that quote from Crowley was not in response to the secret of Magick, it was in reference to his protege Dr. Jack Parsons being swindled by L. Ron Hubbard in the early 1940's (Hubbard later went on to fame and fortune as the founder of the Church of Scientology).

Finally, what's wrong with computer geeks? I'm sure some people would label all of us computer geeks who jerk off too much. It seems like a pretty immature statement and doesn't really serve to further any meaningful discussion.

Cesare Cardinali

 

[Mack Of All Trades]

thats tellin him, ceasar.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Cesare Cardinali OK, ta

Cesare Cardinali,

Well thanks, for your (consistent mismatching and polarity responding) response to my post, and thanks for correcting me on that crowley thing, someone told me differently, thats very interesting.

Well yes I have tried ross's stuff, but I prefer to not wear masks these days. I mean, I really arent that obsessed and desperate enough to go to such ridiculous lengths to memorize bastardized ericksonian language patterns applied to seduction, it would make poor old milton turn in his grave, plus the whole cookie cutter approach to such a complex phenomenon as communication. Not to mention actually paying for it as well (perish the thought).

Well what about your post anyway? what further meaningful conversation does it serve? it seems all critical to me, there is no further development on any of the things I posted, no valid and comprehensive counter arguments, no other perspectives offered? Maybe post something other than raw criticism before claiming that my post "doesn't really serve to further any meaningful discussion".

I could explain more about ericksonian hypnosis, how ross developed the "model" , The limits of such a model, how to develop your own model of seduction utilising the tools ross used, the limits and constrictions of attempting to use his speed seduction model, etc etc, Be a little more varied, specific, and less critical if your want to "serve further meaningful discussion"


ciao

 

[Viroid]

Originally posted by The Iron Chef
Now, speed seduction is way to get laid, perfect for ONS. As I understand it, SS provides no provisions for maintaining any type of relationship. You simply can't use patterns over and over, cuz she will catch on by the 2nd or 3rd time she's heard it.

Of course you cant use a scripted pattern over and over, but you can make a pattern about almost anything. Just create emotions with your words and she will feel it.

Jeffries claims his techniques / patterns are not lies. I looked at some of his patterns, and they basically involve convincing her that YOU are her ideal man, that you have everything that she ever wants. That's a pretty tall order. Needless to say, if you actually go into a relationship with her, you can't actually back up the claims in the patterns, so it makes you look like a liar.

What patterns are those? You have to use patterns that suit you. I would never use the "Im a millionare with a 15inch cack" pattern.

I also question the fact that Jeffries uses female friends and assistants (Kim, for example). And of course when he demonstrates with these girls, his technique always works. Now, I don't know how much these assistants gets paid, but I don't understand why any woman would willingly be his friend, knowing what he does.

Why not? Hes helping women feel good.

It's like he KNOWS his shyt won't work for a lot of his attendees, but if they complain that is doesn't work, he'll tell them "Well that's becuz you didn't have everything EXACTLY right. Your tonality was off here and there, your timing is off, you didn't use these exact words, etc". He can direct any problems back to the person, and never on his techniques.

Kinda like how im horrible at math? Im really pissed at my teachers and all those books, but whose fault is it in reality?

In short, the way I see Jeffries is this: a very competant salesman. He sees that there is a market of desperate men out there, so he provides a product so lucrative and convincing that it's hard for anyone coming across it resist. He sells it, and certainly it works some of the time for some people, and as for people who it doesn't work for, any fault will be placed on the user for not using it correctly. It's a bullet-proof product!

This is true.

 

[The Iron Chef]

Viroid: I'm guessing you're one of the lucky few who's made SS work for you. That's great; could you elaborate on your experience with SS? First, could you tell us a little about yourself (education, job, etc)?

From your response, I gather that you have the skill to come up with patterns on the fly. How did you develop this skill? I for one CANNOT simply pull a pattern from thin air; heck I have trouble memorizing just one pattern entirely.

What is your success rate with SS and how are you using it? (ie for ONS or LTR?). Are you in a LTR currently? Like I said, with ONS, SS is a simple matter if you're well versed in it, but with a LTR, I don't see how it could work. Consider this, you need to always use the SS language style (poetic/flowery/cheesy) when you're with her (even in the presence of other guys). Unless you naturally talk this way, there's a problem. If you switch back and forth between your natural way of talking and SS style, she's gonna catch on.

 

[The Iron Chef]

Patrick: you got me curious. What is ericksonian hynosis? And what are the limits of RJ's model? (I probably have similar ideas, but lets hear yours)

 

[Viroid]

Originally posted by The Iron Chef
Viroid: I'm guessing you're one of the lucky few who's made SS work for you. That's great; could you elaborate on your experience with SS?

Ive read a lot more about NLP than SS. Ive read whats on FS.com, ASF and Ross Jeffries free book, "How to get the woman you desire in Bed." I really like his free book. The attitudes he lays out for you are great. Plus, theres some neat NLP added in like submodality work and elicting values. Have you read it? Ive found that this is all I really need. What ive been reading is that the new SS is different with some powerful stuff added. Maybe Sir Chance can comment?

From your response, I gather that you have the skill to come up with patterns on the fly.

Sometimes I can, sometimes I cant. Im trying to figure out what kind of state im in when the patterns are flowing. BTW, ive never done one of those long winded patterns you might read at FS. Mine are short and sweet. They also have things in common with the girls. If I think a girl has interesting eyes, ill do a little bit of the "interesting eyes" pattern. I find its more genuine and not only makes her feel good, but myself as well.

How did you develop this skill?

I have no idea.

What is your success rate with SS and how are you using it? (ie for ONS or LTR?).

I dont think it would be fair for me to say because I dont use pure SS.

Are you in a LTR currently?

No.

Like I said, with ONS, SS is a simple matter if you're well versed in it, but with a LTR, I don't see how it could work.

Maybe, maybe not. But I do beileve that NLP can do wonders with a LTR.

Consider this, you need to always use the SS language style (poetic/flowery/cheesy) when you're with her (even in the presence of other guys). Unless you naturally talk this way, there's a problem. If you switch back and forth between your natural way of talking and SS style, she's gonna catch on.

Catch on to what?