Question - Talking to women about POLITICS - HELP!!!

[The TallOne]

Originally posted by Abbott
I don't know about you, but I won't date someone unless I thought that I'd be able to enjoy their presence. And I think it's fair to at least try to find out about dealbreakers. For example, I'm quite liberal so I'm intent on avoiding extremely hardcore Republicans, extreme conservatives, or free-market fundumentalists (the most extreme case of true conservatism, or the belief that any and ALL government is bad).

I would date someone with opposing views because I find them fun and interesting. As long as they aren't hardcore either way, I couldn't care. Once again, it comes down to being level headed. There are alot of people that I know that date people from both ends of the political side.

Since I don't enjoy being around those types of people, then why would I date them? I can't see how you can possibly think that this is ridiculous. If being around a certain kind of person is annoying like having a pin in your side, then you'd probably want to try to avoid that kind of person (pulling the pin out).

The only way that I can think of, that it can be ANNOYING to you.. is if they bring it up all the time, and try to immpose their views on you. Thats a no-no. That is annoying, but that can also be with religion.

Plus, most people who marry or have very LTRs date their partners beforehand. Would you really want such a relationship with someone who's views are in direct conflict with yours? That would make for a horrible experience.

Not really. I know alot of people who date/marry people with opposing political views. People who would divorce soley on how their partner feels on some issues in politics... is once again retarded. You take things way to seriously, some people need to sit back and relax.

On the flipside, extremely conservative people, who are almost universally religious, tend to believe in the concept of "no sex before marriage," plus they generally aren't very fun people, so it's not like I'd meet them anyway.

Thats a generalization, and a bad one at that.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by The TallOne
I would date someone with opposing views because I find them fun and interesting. As long as they aren't hardcore either way, I couldn't care. Once again, it comes down to being level headed. There are alot of people that I know that date people from both ends of the political side.



The only way that I can think of, that it can be ANNOYING to you.. is if they bring it up all the time, and try to immpose their views on you. Thats a no-no. That is annoying, but that can also be with religion.



Not really. I know alot of people who date/marry people with opposing political views. People who would divorce soley on how their partner feels on some issues in politics... is once again retarded. You take things way to seriously, some people need to sit back and relax.



Thats a generalization, and a bad one at that.

Well said. It's sad to think that person's viewpoint would be a deal breaker, especially if it doesn't effect you life what so ever. I can see maybe different religions or parenting styles or gender roles, but politics?

I guess if a person obsessed with attempting to impose their values on you (no matter the topic) would be a pain in the @ss. I just don't get allowing someone to vote for their party as they accept you voting for yours. Having someone else vote for another party as being a deal breaker seems a bit, extreme.

 

[Sexy_Malibu]

I don't have any desire, but to bring up the subject and your views, its inviting trouble, espically when you mention at the end that you don't want this to turn into a political thread.

Well I didn't bring the political topic into this thread, it was already in the title. I could have left this vague and general and said "I won't sleep with someone who voted a certain way" but then that makes it seem as if I'm judging that person solely on the fact that they don't agree with me. And it's more than that... there are specific issues (e.g., abortion) that no doubt effect sex and dating and I felt it would make more sense if I just came out and said what my reasons were.

You all don't have to agree with me of course... and I added that 'I don't want to debate' thing because I really don't want to argue with people about my views. I just wanted to use them as an example. (That is, I'm not trying to preach that I think abortion should stay legal... merely that it *is* an important topic to *me* and therefore *does* factor into my decision making process).

Thats a cop out. You wouldn't sleep with them because of their views.. those views have a 'effect' on you. So, in essence, you are choosing to sleep with men soley based on what they have a belief in.

You know what, you can call it a 'cop out' but they DO have an effect on me. It's not solely based on their beliefs, it's on their beliefs AND the way their beliefs effect me.

For instance: Let's take a different issue than abortion. Someone who believes (religiously) that homosexuality is morally wrong is just someone with a belief. I'd never make an opinion of that person based solely on that belief.

HOWEVER, that belief may or may not affect me. He may come from either side of the argument... a) "My religion tells me that homosexuality is wrong, but 'live and let live'..." or b) "My religion tells me that homosexuality is wrong, so I think all gay people should die". (Yeah those are extremes, I'm just making a point, lol).

Then let's also suppose that maybe I had a gay brother or something. And that he was getting married and was fighting for the legalization of same-sex marriage. Then that issue would hit even closer to home. How could I possibly be in a relationship with someone who held feelings of disdain and/or hatred towards one of my loved ones?

(But for the record, I'm an only child... )

Once again, if the guy doesn't want to sleep with a person because of her political views, its just as stupid.

In reference to a pro-life guy not wanting to sleep with me if he knew I'd want to get an abortion if knocked up. That's NOT refusing to sleep with me based solely on my political views. It's based on how those views can effect our relationship. If I got pregnant with his baby, we'd have to have an argument over whether or not to abort. I could very well just run off and do it without his consent... WHY OH WHY would he want to sleep with someone who would do that, if he was so Pro-Life? You should KNOW what someone's beliefs are BEFORE you get into that situation with them, not after.

I find people with opposing views interesting. To date someone with almost the exact same views is not interesting, or fun. Its very boring.

I agree. I DID say that I wouldn't want someone with the EXACT same views as me. However, there ARE certain issues that are very very important to me (important enough that say, I would go out and protest in defense of them)... Do I want a cookie-cutter copy of me to date? No. But I can't deal with the extreme moral conflict of being with someone who strongly opposes something I feel so strongly about.

It only gets ugly because you take your beliefs very seriously to the point where it annoys you what the other person thinks. Thats where the problem is. If you can have a intellectual debate with someone, and not be a total ass about it, it can be very fun.

Why do you assume that I am the one who turns it ugly? I am a very understanding person and usually very respectful of all views... be they political, religious, or whatnot. I'm actually pretty open-minded also and *can* 'see the other side' quite often. If someone has a legitimate, intelligent argument for their stance, I respect it even if I don't agree with it. However, if they are coming at me with ignorance or incorrect facts... I'm not going to ignore that. I avoid political debates NOT because I take my beliefs so seriously that I annoy other people with them... but because I've encountered way too many people who are annoyed MERELY by someone disagreeing with them, regardless of their 'debating method'.

Once again, turning it political. Please, if you wish not to bring up politics, don't mention it yourself. Even as a "example".

For someone who claims to be so open-minded and non-judgemental that you'd feel comfortable dating someone with polar opposite political views than your own... you sure are getting pretty sensitive about me mentioning my own. Can't you just take your own advice and just respect my views without getting upset? hee hee... No, but seriously... You can say whatever you want to say about my political views that I have mentioned AS AN EXAMPLE. I'm not saying you can't respond to them or discredit them, I'm just saying I don't wish to debate you on them so I just probably won't defend them any further than the particular example called for.

 

[squirrels]

Originally posted by Sexy_Malibu
Slightly off topic... after the election I asked all of my guys who they voted for. Anyone who said "Bush" got put on the bench.

I certainly don't expect my friends to share my viewpoints on every/any thing and I respect other people's opinions and beliefs. HOWEVER, I cannot in good faith ever have sex again with someone who would have voted for Bush. There are a bunch of reasons for this, but the main one that applies to sex would be the topic of abortion. I'm not 'pro-abortion' or anything (and I do have a child who was 'unplanned' in case you're wondering) but I can't in my right mind sleep with a guy who would elect someone so set on taking away a woman's right to choose. What if I was to accidentally get pregnant by him? Sometimes politics do matter. Before the election I really didn't care, but afterwards it just hit home a little harder.

(And I don't want to hear any political debates here).

Most people who voted for Bush didn't vote for him because they LIKED him. They voted for them because there was no viable alternative.

 

[Sexy_Malibu]

Originally posted by squirrels
Most people who voted for Bush didn't vote for him because they LIKED him. They voted for them because there was no viable alternative.

Yeah I'll give you that on squirrels. John Kerry is a douchebag, but for me it was more of an 'anyone but Bush' type of thing. (I could elaborate on all the reasons why I feel this way, but eh, I just don't want to, lol).

 

[squirrels]

Originally posted by Sexy_Malibu
Yeah I'll give you that on squirrels. John Kerry is a douchebag, but for me it was more of an 'anyone but Bush' type of thing. (I could elaborate on all the reasons why I feel this way, but eh, I just don't want to, lol).

Yeah, a lot of people thought that way. I thought that way, too, but I couldn't stomach the idea of voting Kerry, so I didn't vote. What I'm saying is that judging anyone for voting one way or the other, especially in a race THIS close, is wrong.

Instead, judge their REASONS for voting that way.

 

[Sexy_Malibu]

Originally posted by squirrels
Yeah, a lot of people thought that way. I thought that way, too, but I couldn't stomach the idea of voting Kerry, so I didn't vote. What I'm saying is that judging anyone for voting one way or the other, especially in a race THIS close, is wrong.

Instead, judge their REASONS for voting that way.

Yeah you're right. And that's really more what I've been doing. But... If you think about it, whatever reasons they had for voting one way... (even if it wasn't the abortion thing, or other issues that are important to me)... apparently THOSE reasons were 'more important' to them than the issues that are important to me (or rather, the issues that are important to me, are NOT important to them).

I don't expect someone to agree with every little thing I think, but I'm really important to someone... then the issues that are important to me, should also be important to them. And wouldn't it be easier if they wouldn't have to compromise their beliefs in order for that to be possible?

 

[Julius_Caesar]

If she agrees with you, talk about politics, if she doesn't don't talk about it. It is my expierence that almost everybody takes that conversation way to seriously. I have never convinced anybody to see my point of view, ever, and I am no slouch at debating. The point is, if you have different opinions leave it alone. Trying to convince others will make you mad or make her mad.

And it is always nice for the old ego to be around a yes-man, or yes-woman in this case.

*edit*

after reading the lady above me's post I reach the end of my case:

I don't expect someone to agree with every little thing I think, but I'm really important to someone... then the issues that are important to me, should also be important to them.

There it is, people,you judge their politics and you judge them . IF you don't like her politics, you don't like her. That is the mentality that divides people, and in relationships anything that is devisive is bad news. That is an easy way, in the beginning of a relationship, to go from likeing to not-likeing real quick.

 

[Sexy_Malibu]

Originally posted by Julius_Caesar
There it is, people,you judge their politics and you judge them . IF you don't like her politics, you don't like her. That is the mentality that divides people, and in relationships anything that is devisive is bad news. That is an easy way, in the beginning of a relationship, to go from likeing to not-likeing real quick.

I think if you already have feelings for someone, then it's a lot easier to accept their opposing political views. You do it because you like them. But like JC said, if you're in the beginning of a relationship and you only sort-of-like the person (because you don't know them well yet), then it's easy to stop liking them over something like politics.

In the same way that if I HATED rap music, I wouldn't want to date someone who only liked rap music and listened to it non-stop. You don't want to date a clone, but you do want to have something in common. But say, if I really really liked him and then found out that he loved rap music, I could maybe tolerate it more... for him... as long as he, in turn, was willing to tolerate other kinds of music for me.

But politics are NOT music. Your political views are a big part of who you are. Some people don't have strong opinions about politics, they just vote one way or the other. But if you're strongly for one side, and your SO is strongly for the other... that's a lot of internal (and external) conflict for both of you. Not impossible... I'd certainly be willing to give it a try for the right person... but why bother?

 

[Wyldfire]

Well, if you attempt to stay in a relationship with someone and never talk about anything of substance it's going to bore you both to tears.

There's no reason why you can't discuss these kinds of issues, but if she gets all bent out of shape you should learn how to discuss them with humor and in a light hearted way.