Question - Talking to women about POLITICS - HELP!!!

[Analysis]

Hey DJ's,
Does Doc Love principle of keep the conversation positive, light, uplifting, and off heavy subjects (sex, religion, politics, controversial subjects )....continue pass the 60 day campaign? I've been w/ my girl for about 2 years and we have touched on some of these subjects..and we can get into a heated debate where we get all worked up and mad...In the beginning, I didn't touch these topics at all but now I notice that its becoming more frequent...Should you strictly stay away from all heavy subjects in a long term relationshps? Thanks....Everything has been good so far so I wouldn't want it to eat away any of the interest she has for me..Shes always talking about marrying me...

 

[Life-Trainee]

If you choose to argue, make sure that you're well informed on the subject rather than arguing over silly "talking points".

 

[Chemistry]

Nothin like a healthy debate or discussion... shows the whole mental stimulation side of things which is what you need to have in a LTR...

Me and an X were together for a year or just more and we'd talk on some of the topical issues... just casually chatting you know, and expressin opinions on matters, I mean its harder not to talk about it given how much its in the news

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

You need to find out which she values more, a relationship with you and accepting that you have differences of opinions OR her convictions about politics, religion or whatever. Some women will only get involved with guys that hold the same (exact) values as her.

I've broken up with two women (one of which really could have been 'THE ONE') which had polar opinions of politics as I do. I didn't care one bit, I actually agreed that for them, their particular choice was appropriate. However, they could not accept that MY choice was appropriate for who I was.

The killer thing about 'THE ONE' was that she kept up with my where abouts for almost two years after we broke up, even when I was dating someone else. She found out that I was single again and contacted me.

We went out just to catch up on what each of us had been up to and at the end of the evening she told me that she had hoped that I had changed and that she couldn't be in a relationship with anyone who felt differently about politics! WTF??!!!

The killer thing was that
1. We did not talk politics
2. We did not talk about getting back together

So in a nutshell, even if you DON'T talk about those taboo subjects, people will possibly be able to tell your convictions by how you present yourself, especially if you aren't wishy washy in your presentation. I say that you need to decide what's more important to you; what you believe in or a piece of @ss. It's your choice...

 

[The TallOne]

I use politics/other subjects in talking to girls... I disagree with Doc Love about always keepin off the heavy subjects.

Why?

First, it would show if the girl has a real brain in her head. Girls that are airheads, aren't my type. If they can't hold a decent conversation, then they're not worth my time.

Second, it would show if she has the backbone herself to stand up for what she believes in. (Which is a good thing) I don't want a girl thats going to change her opinion with everything I debate with her about...

Plus, you can make jokes about politics, espically if they have a real grasp on the subject.

Then again, I look for LTRs, not ONS or STRs. So, my take might not help you.

 

[Grey Fox]

Stay off the heavy stuff until she gets to know you and then you can argue about whatever you want. I'd think you rather her see you as a person rather than make value judgements on the arguements you make.

-Grey Fox

 

[Ice Cold]

Politics is an extremely complicated and unscientific field. People usually care about their beleifs and take it personally if somebody disagrees.

Cheers

 

[coolwater]

Have you laid this chick yet?

LOL.

coolwater

 

[Abbott]

Here's an idea if you want to find out, or at least get an idea of what type of political views someone has. Try asking questions about issues, and ask them what they think. Take care not to say words like Republican, Democrat, facist, communist, left-wing, right-wing, Socialist, Libertarian, etc. Also, don't talk about bi-partisan issues (such as gun control) if you want to find out her background.

Example:
Q: How do you feel about unions?

Republican Answer:
They just try to price workers out of the market. The workers are low-skill and thus shouldn't be paid a lot. If they want more money, they should get more skills.

Democratic Answer:
There aren't enough of them. There are many fields that can benefit from unions, such as retail where most people there don't make a living wage. Also, there's a never-ending cycle of poverty so it's only right to help these people.

Another idea is to just try to listen to things that she says. If she says that gay marriage is bad and that it shouldn't be allowed, she's probably a Republican. But, if she says something like how the poor need more help to break from the cycle of poverty, she's probably a Democrat.


It's not a bad idea to ask about these types of things near the beginning. You'll find out how much she knows about current issues, as well as what her opinions are. That would let you find out if she holds a position that you utterly hate, if that happens to be the case. For example, I'm very liberal, pro-gun, and I have mixed feelings about Affirmative Action* (so I'm no Michael Moore copycat). So what I'd be most interested in is if she's an extremely conservative or hardcore Republican type, since I don't get along with those types very well.

So, if you find out that she doesn't see eye-to-eye on enough issues for you to get along, then you'll know better than to waste time on her.

*-I'm not racist, which is precisely why I'm against Affirmative Action. In theory, it can force in a less-qualified minority over a more qualified white, just because he wasn't white. Plus, it implies that minorities are poorer and less capable than whites are. Also, the poor white family is probably going to need more help than the rich black family. I just had to say that so I won't be considered a hate-monger, and because that's probably against the rules here.

Ben

 

[squirrels]

Originally posted by Life-Trainee
If you choose to argue, make sure that you're well informed on the subject rather than arguing over silly "talking points".

Or use those "silly talking points" as just that to make the situation humorous.

You DON'T want to talk politics with a girl unless you can joke about it. If it gets too heavy and serious, ESPECIALLY in the first couple dates, then just gracefully bow out and change the subject. You don't have to admit you're WRONG or anything, just step back. The more important thing at this stage in the relationship is to have a good time.

 

[Maximus_Decimus]

Originally posted by The TallOne
I use politics/other subjects in talking to girls... I disagree with Doc Love about always keepin off the heavy subjects.

Why?

First, it would show if the girl has a real brain in her head. Girls that are airheads, aren't my type. If they can't hold a decent conversation, then they're not worth my time...

No dude. With respect to the subject of politics, Doc Love is giving sound advice for the first couple of dates. An AFC should typically stay off of religion, politics, and especially tech talk on his first few dates. Keep the dates light and fun.

Maximus

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Maximus_Decimus
No dude. With respect to the subject of politics, Doc Love is giving sound advice for the first couple of dates. An AFC should typically stay off of religion, politics, and especially tech talk on his first few dates. Keep the dates light and fun.

Maximus

My question is if it's just the first date or second, why not find out about woman you are with instead of expounding about things that aren't nearly as intimate? I wonder if it's done because of a lack of social skills in that it's easier to talk about what is seen on the news as opposed to asking interesting questions about your date.

Just something to consider,

 

[The TallOne]

Originally posted by Maximus_Decimus
No dude. With respect to the subject of politics, Doc Love is giving sound advice for the first couple of dates. An AFC should typically stay off of religion, politics, and especially tech talk on his first few dates. Keep the dates light and fun.

Maximus

I disagree.

I have had no problems bringing up politics with girls I have dated.

Espically when they bring it up... it makes the night interesting.

 

[Sexy_Malibu]

Slightly off topic... after the election I asked all of my guys who they voted for. Anyone who said "Bush" got put on the bench.

I certainly don't expect my friends to share my viewpoints on every/any thing and I respect other people's opinions and beliefs. HOWEVER, I cannot in good faith ever have sex again with someone who would have voted for Bush. There are a bunch of reasons for this, but the main one that applies to sex would be the topic of abortion. I'm not 'pro-abortion' or anything (and I do have a child who was 'unplanned' in case you're wondering) but I can't in my right mind sleep with a guy who would elect someone so set on taking away a woman's right to choose. What if I was to accidentally get pregnant by him? Sometimes politics do matter. Before the election I really didn't care, but afterwards it just hit home a little harder.

(And I don't want to hear any political debates here).

 

[The TallOne]

Originally posted by Sexy_Malibu
Slightly off topic... after the election I asked all of my guys who they voted for. Anyone who said "Bush" got put on the bench.

I certainly don't expect my friends to share my viewpoints on every/any thing and I respect other people's opinions and beliefs. HOWEVER, I cannot in good faith ever have sex again with someone who would have voted for Bush. There are a bunch of reasons for this, but the main one that applies to sex would be the topic of abortion. I'm not 'pro-abortion' or anything (and I do have a child who was 'unplanned' in case you're wondering) but I can't in my right mind sleep with a guy who would elect someone so set on taking away a woman's right to choose.

(And I don't want to hear any political debates here).

Don't bring up your politic views in a thread, if you don't want to discuss it.

Do you bring up political views during dates to see how they fit into your mind?

I hate it when people decide not to date/have sex with others soley based on their political views... thats ridiculus.

 

[Sexy_Malibu]

Originally posted by The TallOne
Don't bring up your politic views in a thread, if you don't want to discuss it.

Do you bring up political views during dates to see how they fit into your mind?

I hate it when people decide not to date/have sex with others soley based on their political views... thats ridiculus.

I was only bringing it up as an example. I have no desire to fight and/or debate politics with anyone here because that can only lead to trouble. I don't want to argue over "pro-life" or "pro-choice"... or "Bush is a great leader" vs. "Bush is a moron".

And it's not solely based on their political views that I don't have sex/date them anymore... it's based on what those political views MEAN and how they effect my life.

It'd be the same as a pro-life guy refusing to sleep with ME because I'm not pro-life. You can't go into a sexual relationship like that (even if you use 1,000 kinds of birth control nothing is perfect) without the issue of 'what would happen if'. If someone was very strongly against abortion and knew say, that I would definitely want to have one if I got pregnant... wouldn't that be a good enough reason to not sleep with me?

I understand that not everyone who voted for Bush is necessarily against abortion. But I also know that everyone who voted for Bush, voted for someone who would like to make abortion illegal. Therefore, it really DOES effect my sexual relationship with them. (Like I said before, abortion is not the only issue that would effect my opinion of a guy for voting for Bush, but it's the one most relevant to the topic of dating).

As for DATING (not just sex) I think politics are even MORE important... at times. Obviously I'm not talking about issues like say, unions or something that doesn't directly effect me at the moment. I'm talking about the 'moral' issues (perhaps this is really a religion discussion and not political, but in the case of abortion religion and government DO intersect, unfortunately). Don't certain issues effect a relationship? For instance, don't you want to raise your children with a certain set of morals? Regardless of what those are, if it's that important to you then it CAN matter how important they are to your significant other. I am not very conservative, and I don't particularly choose to date someone who is. I prefer to date someone I have something in common with. I don't mean agreeing on every single little thing, but on the 'big' ones, the 'important' ones? Yes.

I do try to avoid political discussions on dates (and in general) because while I really do respect other people's opinions, I'm very strong in my own beliefs and that inevitably leads to debates which *can* go ugly. However, I do think that someone's political affiliations say a lot about them (especially their REASONS for having those affiliations) so I most certainly DO use it as a factor. Not usually the only factor, but at the moment... yes.

(For the record, I've dated 'Republicans' before... there's just something extra upsetting about 'George W. Bush supporters' that turns my stomach these days).

 

[Abbott]

Originally posted by The TallOne
Do you bring up political views during dates to see how they fit into your mind?

I hate it when people decide not to date/have sex with others soley based on their political views... thats ridiculus.

Why do you hate it?

I don't know about you, but I won't date someone unless I thought that I'd be able to enjoy their presence. And I think it's fair to at least try to find out about dealbreakers. For example, I'm quite liberal so I'm intent on avoiding extremely hardcore Republicans, extreme conservatives, or free-market fundumentalists (the most extreme case of true conservatism, or the belief that any and ALL government is bad).

Since I don't enjoy being around those types of people, then why would I date them? I can't see how you can possibly think that this is ridiculous. If being around a certain kind of person is annoying like having a pin in your side, then you'd probably want to try to avoid that kind of person (pulling the pin out).

Plus, most people who marry or have very LTRs date their partners beforehand. Would you really want such a relationship with someone who's views are in direct conflict with yours? That would make for a horrible experience.

On the flipside, extremely conservative people, who are almost universally religious, tend to believe in the concept of "no sex before marriage," plus they generally aren't very fun people, so it's not like I'd meet them anyway.

Ben

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Abbott
Why do you hate it?

I don't know about you, but I won't date someone unless I thought that I'd be able to enjoy their presence. And I think it's fair to at least try to find out about dealbreakers. For example, I'm quite liberal so I'm intent on avoiding extremely hardcore Republicans, extreme conservatives, or free-market fundumentalists (the most extreme case of true conservatism, or the belief that any and ALL government is bad).

For a 'Leftie,' you sure don't sound very accepting...

Uh oh, was that enough cause to close the thead? I hope so...

 

[The TallOne]

Originally posted by Sexy_Malibu
I was only bringing it up as an example. I have no desire to fight and/or debate politics with anyone here because that can only lead to trouble. I don't want to argue over "pro-life" or "pro-choice"... or "Bush is a great leader" vs. "Bush is a moron".

I don't have any desire, but to bring up the subject and your views, its inviting trouble, espically when you mention at the end that you don't want this to turn into a political thread.

And it's not solely based on their political views that I don't have sex/date them anymore... it's based on what those political views MEAN and how they effect my life.

Thats a cop out. You wouldn't sleep with them because of their views.. those views have a 'effect' on you. So, in essence, you are choosing to sleep with men soley based on what they have a belief in.

It'd be the same as a pro-life guy refusing to sleep with ME because I'm not pro-life. You can't go into a sexual relationship like that (even if you use 1,000 kinds of birth control nothing is perfect) without the issue of 'what would happen if'. If someone was very strongly against abortion and knew say, that I would definitely want to have one if I got pregnant... wouldn't that be a good enough reason to not sleep with me?

Once again, if the guy doesn't want to sleep with a person because of her political views, its just as stupid.

I understand that not everyone who voted for Bush is necessarily against abortion. But I also know that everyone who voted for Bush, voted for someone who would like to make abortion illegal. Therefore, it really DOES effect my sexual relationship with them. (Like I said before, abortion is not the only issue that would effect my opinion of a guy for voting for Bush, but it's the one most relevant to the topic of dating).

You don't want to bring up a political talk, yet you are injecting this in the thread.

Don't certain issues effect a relationship? For instance, don't you want to raise your children with a certain set of morals? Regardless of what those are, if it's that important to you then it CAN matter how important they are to your significant other. I am not very conservative, and I don't particularly choose to date someone who is. I prefer to date someone I have something in common with. I don't mean agreeing on every single little thing, but on the 'big' ones, the 'important' ones? Yes.

I don't base my dating on girl's political views. If they are nice, fun, curteous and have a level head, I couldn't care how they view abortion or religion. Why would I care? I find people with opposing views interesting. To date someone with almost the exact same views is not interesting, or fun. Its very boring.

I do try to avoid political discussions on dates (and in general) because while I really do respect other people's opinions, I'm very strong in my own beliefs and that inevitably leads to debates which *can* go ugly. However, I do think that someone's political affiliations say a lot about them (especially their REASONS for having those affiliations) so I most certainly DO use it as a factor. Not usually the only factor, but at the moment... yes.

It only gets ugly because you take your beliefs very seriously to the point where it annoys you what the other person thinks. Thats where the problem is. If you can have a intellectual debate with someone, and not be a total ass about it, it can be very fun.

(For the record, I've dated 'Republicans' before... there's just something extra upsetting about 'George W. Bush supporters' that turns my stomach these days).

Once again, turning it political. Please, if you wish not to bring up politics, don't mention it yourself. Even as a "example".

 

[Abbott]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
For a 'Leftie,' you sure don't sound very accepting...

Uh oh, was that enough cause to close the thead? I hope so...

Well, I'm no Michael Moore copycat.

Plus, I think everyone has dealbreakers. It just so happens that one of mine is for her to have political views that are far to the right.

I figured that it was worth mentioning because it can be a dealbreaker to other people too. Therefore, it'd be a good idea to find this out, as opposed to wasting time on some chick, only to find out there's something about her that you just can't stand.

Ben