Question for the Older Players - Have Women Changed?
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backbreaker
Master Don Juan
Im sitting at a football scrimmage today and yo have to realize, i mean i get out the house, but i work at home and most of my time is either spent at the race track, at home or at the gym. I am very much a creature of habit.AlphaWhiskey said:
anyway, it amazes me how men, at least here, don't really know what an attractive woman looks like anymore. today it's like, if you are white and skinny they think you are an 8 despite anything else.
i saw girls today that i would not give the time of day that had guys clamoring all over them. Hell i saw one dude i know who was on the freaking basketball team, he is good friends with my cousin who played for the razorbacks, all over this chick who i would not even use as a plate.
i guess because of obesity, guys have lowered their standards.
zekko
Master Don Juan
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The thing is, everybody's taste is different. Just because you don't find a certain woman attractive doesn't mean someone else won't. Look at how a guy here will post a picture of a woman and say she's a solid 9 and everybody else will say she's a 5. People are drawn to people with different genes, supposely.backbreaker said:
Chances are, if a girl keeps a slim figure, someone will find her attractive. Different looks appeal to different people. I'm sure you find some women attractive that I would not, and vice versa.
backbreaker
Master Don Juan
yeah I suppose there is some truth to that.zekko said:
my wife and i often talk about this site when she sees a thread she likes or finds interesting.. she read this site just about every day actually, she finds it interesting she just does not post. so anything i have done or any woman i have done she already knows about, so i'm not hiding antying.
anyway in the car today we got to talking about this thread and she said something that i found quite interesting. she doesn't really do facebook/twitter stuff like most gals does she is kinda like me a i want to see who i am talking to type person. we both use the internet a lot but we like to keep some things private. anyway, she told me that, she expects there to be a downturn in the use of the internet. you know common, or supposed common knowledge is that we are going to just keep advancing to this digital age where we keep integrating technology into our social lives, but she said something that really home (why i married her guys lol). the internet... it's not really improving people's social lives so why would we keep adding more of it? it's making guys harder to find women, it's messing up the natural balance, and sooner or later, the people are going to backlash and go the other way.
I don't agree with it, or necessarily agree with it but she has a point and it has merit. the internet was a god send when like chat rooms first came on the scene. or when myspace first came out or when we first figured out everyone had an email address.
there are certain things that make our life BETTER and some that make it WORSE. being able to check my email on my phone while in my car.. better. much better. having to lower my standards in women becuase all the women are now being worshiped by guys online.. worse.
BTW she agrees with every last thing here in this thread.. she's a few years older than i am and when she was 20 and 21 there was not really the nternet there really were no cell phones, she was born in 79 so that means she was 21 in 2000 and I remember in 2000 i did not have a cell phone I did not get a cell phone until 2011. I had a 2 way pager but not a cell phone lol in 2000. she thinks alot of american girls are very stuck on themselves and too stuck up.
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lol one more thing and this irked me so bad i had to get it off my chest.
we were walking to the staidum and there was this girl had to be every bit of 200 pounds and she had on some pants i don't think i could even squeeze in and like, they didn't cover her butt and she was bending over in her car and you could see like her ENTIRE ass lol. not the crack, like the entire freaking thing was just out. i mean not the entire ass but more than any man want to see. at least half the ass. and it was fat flabby ass not young tender juicy ass. i wanted to throw up and everyone around us was like damn ***** go get some clothes that fit.
that's another reason i
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zekko
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Here's what I don't get, why is this even an issue? This goes back to the whole tendency of the pickup community to "blame the AFCs" for their problems with women.backbreaker said:
If what this site says is true, women don't want to be worshipped, and they aren't attracted to AFCs or the guys who worship them. This is about as fundamental as you can get. If there are a bunch of guys acting AFC with her, shouldn't that make it all the easier for you to come in and behave like a real man and swoop her up? Aren't they supposed to find that irresistable?
backbreaker
Master Don Juan
I like you becuase unlike the vast majority of posters you make me think.zekko said:
I see your point but you are missing mine.
Look i never said that the guys were serious compeition.
let me use a real life example. in fact, **** i can use the same girl. the girl who brought me here, her name is kat, well that's short for something else. when i met her, we didn't have cell phones really back then, in 1999. i dated her friend, but i was really attracted to her, and once her friend broke up with me i made a play torwards her. And while i eventually got AFCed, that was because of my actions. she was in retrospect, quite attracted to me. i just fvcked up the little window of opportunity i had. and when i say this girl is ass licking hot, it doesn't begin to describe. even living in LA she would stand out now and this is in Arkansas lol. but she showed guanine interest. we kissed, she would pick me up in her dad's convertible and we would go joy riding. she was torn becuase i dated her firend for a little bit but her friend cheated on me so we kinda got over that. despite her being very attractive, she was a real woman, she was very approachable she called me, 3 4 times a day, she showed guanine interest. now, i didn't actually think i had a chance with this girl and my non give a **** attitude because of it, i was just kicking it and then when we kissed and i knew she liked me i froze like a criminal with a flash light on him and i was scared to do antying. i think back sometimes that one night had i acted differently my entire life path would have been differently, for better or for worse i don't know but it would have defiantly been different.
anyway, this same girl, circa 2006, right about the time facebook got really really hot. by then we have both grown up. she is just 2 and a half months younger than me so we are about the same age. she had went to college, actually no at that time she was still in college, i had sold my business, at the time i was about a year clean off drugs, we had done the LJBF thing, we flirted, we had a 2 year break from each other in there. but around 2006, she started showing serious interest, non mistakable interest. spending the night, actually getting jealous of other girls i was dating, asking me what i thought of her and what not, we would wind out quasi dating for a few months before i moved to cali. but i say this to say, to say that now, even though i had actually made something of my self, was in better shape, looked better, dressed better, actually had some game now, and was really starting to understand the game right about this time, and despite the fact that she was now 23 years old not 17 and while she was still very hot, she wasn't 17 anymore ... she put up more barriers and bull **** then she did 6 years ago.
6 years ago there was about a week period that in retrospect had i payed my cards right she was there for the taking. showing up at my job to bring me lunch, **** calling me at my work number, having me sneak her out the house at night so we can go for walks, she was into me and i blew it but, she made it pretty clear she liked me and wanted me to make a hard move.
here i am now, in 2006, and even though she is really into me, she thinks she is better **** than she was in 1999 because all these guys on facebook and she has mysapce back in 2006 mysapce was really facebooks equal and she's got all these friends and talking back and forth with them and all these dudes are asking her out and and now everyone knows what she is always doing at all times and she constantly has these chumps (like i was for 6 years) take her out to eat and ****. she's the type of pretty that guys don't even really try to game her in real life becuase they know they don't have a shot so once you get to notice her, she knows she is attractive but her self esteem isn't what you think it would be at all once you actually get pass the looks. But by the time of the internet and the low risk high reward setup of internet dating, she had guys talking to her constantly. what's the harm in trying to game a hot girl over the internet so what if she does not respond. she would spend hours on facebook/myspace a day.
lol it's like BASF. it didn't create the game it just made the game harder. now she thinks she's hotter than she is and more valuable than she is (and at the time, and hell even now she's a serious head turner but i mean, she's not my equal as far as status and vaule goes). j
what i am getting at is despite me being more value then she is, i had to work my ass off to get her just to be a plate lol, to only figure out after a few months that i wasted 6 years of my life because after i fvcked her a few times i really didn't want anything to do with her romantically she wasn't worth the effort.
so no. if i want a girl i really could give a **** who else wants her I am confident in my game and what i bring to the table. but that does not mean that she comprehends my vaule and hers correctly thus making the game harder than it has to be. like today at the game, there was this girl, little cute white girl, very skinny and one of the only girls that i actually looked at that had a reassemble of a figure without being fat. now, i am quite sure if i were not married and is aw her in the right environment, i could game her and get her to go out with me. but it would be much harder than it should be because of all the guys she had hanging off the arm, she now thinks she's my equal when in reality she's not.
when i lived in the drug rehab place, again this is pre facebook/myspace, for a few months the hottest girl there was a 19 year old who was just.. that body good god. she had lost like 60 pounds and she was now 5'5 115 those curves good lord. she was a waitress at a cheap mexican resturant. she bascially, i am not going to say i had NO compeition becuase there was another guy she had the hots for as well but, lol that's another post. long story short he fvcked around and got re arrested lol. i mean she paid me attention before he got arrested but afterwards i mean she was giving me air traffic control singles, hey i like you. going bowling with me. i called her one night she was on, we had these little weekend passes where we could go home and i called her one saturday night and she came back to kick it with me on her week off lol. and this girl was HOT. she was a waitress.
about 3 months before i met my wife, in 2007, i met a waitress in LA, at some hole in the wall mexican restaurant.. what can i say i like mexican food lol. i gamed her. and she liked kicking ith wme but i mean she is flaking out on me and the entire time we are together she's on her cell phone and sending text messages and **** and i mean i'm competing with some dudes, lol that she works with over a freaking waitress? are you fvcking seirous? i mean, honestly she liked me, but, i was honestly just so insulted by the fact that she was playing me with guys at her job i told myself she was too stupid to date. pre internet/ facebook friends/myspace buddies whatever she would have been on my **** she had ebola and it had the vaccine.
edit: that, is something that is seriously changed. gone are the girls that are so hot that guys don't approach them or talk to them. I knew a few of them in the 90's this girl being one of them. I ended up going on a few dates with our high school's homecoming queen when I was 21 and she was the same way, drop dead georgous and so hot and smart that guys just didn't try. I tried and she was actually quite excited to go out on a date with me. i just caught her at hte wrong time she had an ex of a few years and there were still feelings there and I moved on but she really like dme and i was actually suprised as i sat by her in class for 6 years and jacked off too many times only hoping and all i had to do was ask lol. i mean you just knew she wouldn't be interested or she had some stud somewhere. she was attractive enough and classy enough to attract the best of the best. think Dominque Flacon without the intelligence lol. But in 2012, any girl that is that hot, has 1000 facebook friends, has 500 people following her on twitter. she not only knows she is hot **** she thinks she is worth more than what she is. And that's not even including dating sites. i used to make a living scraping out those girls who were very hot but guys did not really try to talk to them lol. that entire niche is just gone
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Its funny because the two LTRs I've been in, one of them didn't even have a Facebook until after we broke up and the other had one but rarely used it, calling it a waste of time. They weren't perfect by any means but they weren't massive attention wh0res, I mean all women are to some extent, but at least you're not having to deal with 50+ guys on facebook trying to chat her up/message her, always looking for an opportunity to slip in whenever she's feeling upset, vulnerable, or insecure.backbreaker said:
Going out with a decent looking woman these days is like applying for a job in 2009.....you get to compete with a horde of desperate applicants and then, if you're lucky, rewarded with some mediocre pvssy while working full-time trying to keep your thankless employer (i.e. her) from firing (i.e. dumping) you at a whim for the smallest of errors.
I think many celebrities are dogs. Aquelar or Gaga, for instance. There's very little agreement amongst men what constitutes a beautiful woman. Some think that Angelina is "horse faced", for instance. Cultural differences exist, too. Asians often dislike any African looks, and vice versa. Some of our desires for "form" are said to be "hard wired" into us, helping us avoid wasting our genes on an undesirable mate. As in a lop sided face might well indicate congenital problems, or so it is claimed. Ayn was certainly no beauty. I've had women swear that Ayn was a man in drag, from the look of "her" hands, Larnyx, forehead, etc. She certainly didn't write like any other woman, and very few men have ever come close to matching her, either. Peikoff, to this day, claims that Ayn had no affair with Nat Branden. 
backbreaker
Master Don Juan
that's actually a quite accurate analogy.sstype said:
i would never date seriously a girl who lived on facebook or myspace or twitter. i mean use it from time to time sure.
If you want to talk, talk to your friends. If you want a girl to like you, listen to her, ask questions, and act like you are on the edge of your seat.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.
zekko
Master Don Juan
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I think I did miss your point, actually. I agree the social media has only made things harder on the poor modern male.backbreaker said:
Your friend Kat, though, from what you say she was a very good looking woman. By the time she was 23, it's no surprise that her head had swollen by that time. Facebook or no Facebook, she had to have figured out by that time the advantages she had with the opposite sex. Women at that age are at their peak value anyway, and an especially hawt one? Forget it.
As for the waitress girl, hey she's a waitress, she probably gets hit on all day, every day. But I agree, I would be insulted too, if she was trying to get me to compete with some guy working in a little restaurant. I'd have to put her down to being not very bright. No offense to restaurant workers - all work is honorable.
When you guys say things like this, where are you getting these third world women? Have you moved to a third world country (do they even have air conditioning? I'd miss the air conditioning)? Do you go vacation there and bring one (or a few) back? Do you go find where the illegal immigrants are hiding in your city? Or do you get them from those mail order bride type of things?don't said:
seasonedplayer
Don Juan
I agree with a lot of what has been said. Here are my observations:
A) ten years ago, if you went on a date, you had a 50pct chance of getting laid by the third date. Today that number is significantly lower because girls are online and already have 3 more dates lined up
B) meeting girls out at a bar is getting more difficult by the week. In he early 90s, when people went out they went to a particular venue. Now people click on events on Facebook and go to a party at any particularly club. So basically, when you do go to bars, people are in their own groups and you rarely see girls from the week before
C) competition is more fierce. These days most guys know how to dress, andnhave read books like the game. By way of example, i used to use 'opinion openers' but now they don't work because women know what you are doing
So to summarize it has become a game of low margin and high volume I.e you need to go on more dates, make more calls etc to get laid the same number of times.
A) ten years ago, if you went on a date, you had a 50pct chance of getting laid by the third date. Today that number is significantly lower because girls are online and already have 3 more dates lined up
B) meeting girls out at a bar is getting more difficult by the week. In he early 90s, when people went out they went to a particular venue. Now people click on events on Facebook and go to a party at any particularly club. So basically, when you do go to bars, people are in their own groups and you rarely see girls from the week before
C) competition is more fierce. These days most guys know how to dress, andnhave read books like the game. By way of example, i used to use 'opinion openers' but now they don't work because women know what you are doing
So to summarize it has become a game of low margin and high volume I.e you need to go on more dates, make more calls etc to get laid the same number of times.
"Funny isn't it how we constantly hear about how women and girls need to build their self-esteem and not be exposed to damaging media messages about women. WTF. The messages being blasted across the media landscape are that women are entitled to their dream guy (or series of dream guys) without having to stay in shape, learn to cook, or even act like a woman."
I am OWNING this speech down the pub TONIGHT.
I am OWNING this speech down the pub TONIGHT.
I saw this last night at the bar I was at. A ton of well put together dudes who seemed to do just fine conversation wise. Yet, mostly average lookingseasonedplayer said:
muffintops and of course the beached whales.
I tried hitting up the rare gems and they were all cool to talk to but all of them mentioned BFs when I tried closing. Go figure.