Question for the Older Players - Have Women Changed?

[spinaroonie]

Question for the older players:

Can you compare women in 2012 to 10 yrs? 20 yrs ago? How have they changed since y'all were younger guys? Let us young players know how the game has changed.

 

[spinaroonie]

This question was posed in another forum and this was the response:

Oh yeah. Well for starters, the number one thing I've noticed is that flaking has gone off the charts since the 90s. It's at the point where girls that approach ME will still flake. In the 90s, any girl that showed any degree of IOIs was a guaranteed thing. If she gave you her number, she would answer the phone when you called, or return your call every time. You simply have to chase a lot harder now. It takes more work now than it did when I was in my early to mid 20s.

The era before texting, facebook and smartphones seems like a distant memory. I've forgot what it feels like to walk into a bar or club and not see half the women's faces pointed down illuminated by the glow of their iphone. This stuff has had a profound impact on the going out experience. They may be present, but their attention is elsewhere. Clubs are full of girls huddled together on the dancefloor taking iphone pics of themselves to instantly tag and upload to facebook. That **** was unimaginable when I was in college. Women actually went out to clubs to meet guys, not to be digital attention *****s.

 

[spinaroonie]

Oops - Mods, please move this to the Mature Man forum.

 

[020204]

This is the Mature Man's forum. Yeah women on average were hotter and dressed more feminely, than now. There was far less obesity, which is a big factor. I would go as far as saying that Australia had the some of the hottest women on the planet in the 90s in much the same way the Eastern Bloc does now.

 

[blueeyedgent]

I think women are more distracted now. Technology allows them to interact with many more men than their looks or personality would otherwise allow, and makes them feel elevated.

In a sense they feel they are worth more than they are.

OTOH I am hitting more ***** than I ever have. As long as you play the game well, have a healthy sense of self esteem and make them chase you as a man with values, you will come out on top consistently.

 

[Who Dares Win]

Im not old enough to give an opinion about picking up in the 90s but I can tell for sure women were more educated and more concerned about the weight of their action.

Attention wh0ring in the 90s was something rare and hidden as much as was drug use, not they are both openly received and in many cases even bragged.
I can confirm from observation that flaking was something non even considered to potentially happen, a girl who gave her phone number was going to pick up and if the date was settle then the day was gonna happen, there were no such things as not showing up or cancel the date 15 minutes before the time.

I think the reason are 2, media creating the whole sex&the city stream fueled from the various reality shows who worshipped well known cvnts who of course behave as cvnts and finally this new technologies related to social networking who have been abused.
So its a society culture + social technologies fueled phenomenon.

Anyway an other thing I remember from my older brothers was that courage to approach was appreciated, the girl was mostly flattered and willing to give the guy a chance more than reject him for ego boosting a complain to her friends to push her status.

 

[st_99]

Is flaking really a modern day phenomenon? Its interesting, i never really thought about it but I wouldn't doubt it.

I didn't really date much in my 20's because I was in a 6 year relationship so I never got much experience in flaking.

 

[Warrior74]

Is flaking really a modern day phenomenon? Its interesting, i never really thought about it but I wouldn't doubt it.

I didn't really date much in my 20's because I was in a 6 year relationship so I never got much experience in flaking.

In the 90s in college, dating was easy for me. And if a girl wasn't interested she would just say she was seeing someone or had a boyfriend. We all knew it was probably bull**** but it was cool. Cell phones weren't common so if you got a number you could usually count on her to answer. After college it was pretty much the same until technology changed that part of the game. I remember when guys started immediately checking girls cell numbers by calling them on the spot. I never did that, I noticed the more desperate a guy came off the more likely he was to get a fake number. Plus if the number is fake and you try to call it out or still go for the number you looked chumpish. I have always assumed that by the time I ask for a number I've done my groundwork so that's not an issue. As for flaking, I only get that from the younger girls, to me it just means she's got a lot of options and I'm not at the top of her list. I would just move on.

I've been out of the game for about the last year, so my information is not up on what's happening right now. But these are my experiences.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Internet dating in the 90's hardly even required a picture. There were so few people doing it, and that itself was a powerful screening factor. It was the opposite of how sites like pof are today. The women were decent-looking and easy to get. Plus, the fact that they met you over the computer was a thrilling 'bad girl' type of thing to be doing. But today, everyone is doing it, so the act itself doesn't screen women at all.

I agree that the smartphone-glued-to-face is an awful sign of our times. On the up side, my crappy flip phone gives me something to talk about when I see a woman with the same crappy phone. I can walk up, point at her phone, and say, "Yes!!! A stupid phone! I thought I was the last one whose phone was still stupid!"

 

[Robert28]

things I've noticed about women and dating that have changed since I was in highschool/college:

if a girl gave you her number there was a 70% chance she liked you. all you had to do was call, talk to her for about 15 mins and set up a date. once you had a date with her, you were pretty much home free. all you had to do was go be you on the date and you were in like Flynn.

if you went on a date with a girl, it was almost impossible to screw it up. you had to either try to mess up or just me a complete bumbling fool. girls gave you LOTS of leeway compared to nowdays where if you do one TINY little thing they will disqualify you instantly....even if you've been perfect up to that point. if the first date went well she was pretty much your girlfriend. not officially, but you new you had a second date in the future. the "one and done" dates were hardly heard of, and like I said you had to completely screw up the first date not to get a second one. if you didn't get a second one you knew it was on you, now if you don't get a second date it isn't always because of you.

girls were more interested in relationships back then. today they just want to date and hookup....with everyone else but me it seems like.lol I swear to God puzzy was easy to come by back then, but now you have to jump through all these hoops and do all kinds of tricks just to get a CHANCE. yet, they seem to be giving it away more freely to everyone else somehow my game was tight as could be from age 15-25 then apparently my game went to sh!t because whatever worked like a charm back then ain't working now.

girls don't want a guy to be traditional anymore, they've killed it. what I mean is back then you NEVER met a girl out somewhere. you picked her up from her house, no questions asked. nowdays they all want to meet you out somewhere. they walk so fast that you have to be a world class sprinter to be able to get in front of them and open their door. you're freaking tired by the end of the night from all the running you have to do! back then she'd stand their and WAIT on you to open her door.

I never even knew wtf flaking was until 3 years ago. seriously. I'd never heard of being stood up, being cancelled on the day before the date or whatever, I didn't know that crap was possible. you could make a date with a girl a week from now and she'd keep it. now you can make one for two hours from now and she'll forget or flake on you

single moms were RARE. I could count on one hand how many I knew. now it's like I'M the odd person because I don't have a little b@astard kid running around. either guys knew to wear a condom back then or make sure the train pulled out of the station on time, but now I swear these guys don't know how to have sex. their dumbass must have fell asleep during Biology when they taught reproduction.

I can't remember a single girl I dated that I had competition with. what I mean is the girls might have had 50 guys chasing them but when I went on a date with them that was it, she cut off all contact with the others and it was just me and her. now? hell I could go on 10 dates with a girl and she's still seeing 3 other guys.

girls were alot more classy back then, alot more fun. sure you had to put up with some bs but it wasn't anything that would drive you out of your fvcking mind like now. you had to play the game, but you didnt have to do it on a daily basis. you just had to play it long enough to get her number and one date and the rest was golden.

girls seemed to be smarter back then, had more common sense. there's so many flat out IDIOTS out there today that I honestly have a hard time finding one that's on my education level.

that's about all I can think of for now.

 

[backbreaker]

2 things have changed

1. hypergamy has gotten out of control. becuase of all the attention and access to hundreds of men online women for the most part, tend ot have a warped perception of what they can pull thus making them more flakish to other men and having a quick trigger finger. i look at my wife's friends sometimes and just shake my heads doing stupid **** over guys who arew in their league but they want one of the 1 or 2 guys they know that everyone else wants.

I remember a week before i met my wife, on my birthday i was hanging out with a nother horse racing friend and we were talking about broads, and at the time i was turning away dates, good dates. i just had no time for them all. and here is this guy, not super handsome but good looking, not fat, good job... couldn't sniff a date. wasn't a dork or antyhing. it's feast or famine. all the women want the best. i remember thinking this dude, there is no way this dude should not be getting ANY interest from anyone.

2. actually, talking to women in person, cold approaching that **** is virtually extinct.


to be frank that's one of the reasons i got married, it was in my thought process. yeah i was spinning plates but my wife is perfect for me and this bull**** is getting out of control. i remember one of the plates before i really settled down was a chick who had no college education at all and worked as a waitress at one of the restaurants i frequent and and here i am a successful entrepreneur, good looking and she's flaking on me like i'm some joe bumb or something i wanted to say ***** what the hell is your problem.


but i don't think women per say have changed. i got cheated on, flaked on growing up as well lol. the main issue is that most women have very unrealistic exceptions of their pulling power.

and in reality it's not their fault it's ours. we have created a vicious cycle. all the AFC's out there have told all these hb 7's that their **** doesn't stink and they believe it.



i will add this as well. becuase men have been so chumpish the last decade or so, it has stunted the growth of most women. most women are told becuase they look good in tight jeans and have nice tits they don't have to do antyhing else to attract a top flight man.

 

[Burroughs]

I remember a week before i met my wife, on my birthday i was hanging out with a nother horse racing friend and we were talking about broads, and at the time i was turning away dates, good dates. i just had no time for them all. and here is this guy, not super handsome but good looking, not fat, good job... couldn't sniff a date. wasn't a dork or antyhing. it's feast or famine. all the women want the best. i remember thinking this dude, there is no way this dude should not be getting ANY interest from anyone.

So what were your thoughts/advice to your friend?

Tell him to make more money, more time in the gym, escorts?

I assume your friend was a 7..if 7s are finding it hard to get interest from girls who are 2-3 notches below them....what kind of society are we making?

and fvck the academic navel gazing...I'm talking about guys getting so pissed they literally become a danger to themselves and anyone else.

 

[Robert28]

2 things have changed

1. hypergamy has gotten out of control. becuase of all the attention and access to hundreds of men online women for the most part, tend ot have a warped perception of what they can pull thus making them more flakish to other men and having a quick trigger finger. i look at my wife's friends sometimes and just shake my heads doing stupid **** over guys who arew in their league but they want one of the 1 or 2 guys they know that everyone else wants.

I remember a week before i met my wife, on my birthday i was hanging out with a nother horse racing friend and we were talking about broads, and at the time i was turning away dates, good dates. i just had no time for them all. and here is this guy, not super handsome but good looking, not fat, good job... couldn't sniff a date. wasn't a dork or antyhing. it's feast or famine. all the women want the best. i remember thinking this dude, there is no way this dude should not be getting ANY interest from anyone.

2. actually, talking to women in person, cold approaching that **** is virtually extinct.


to be frank that's one of the reasons i got married, it was in my thought process. yeah i was spinning plates but my wife is perfect for me and this bull**** is getting out of control. i remember one of the plates before i really settled down was a chick who had no college education at all and worked as a waitress at one of the restaurants i frequent and and here i am a successful entrepreneur, good looking and she's flaking on me like i'm some joe bumb or something i wanted to say ***** what the hell is your problem.


but i don't think women per say have changed. i got cheated on, flaked on growing up as well lol. the main issue is that most women have very unrealistic exceptions of their pulling power.

and in reality it's not their fault it's ours. we have created a vicious cycle. all the AFC's out there have told all these hb 7's that their **** doesn't stink and they believe it.



i will add this as well. becuase men have been so chumpish the last decade or so, it has stunted the growth of most women. most women are told becuase they look good in tight jeans and have nice tits they don't have to do antyhing else to attract a top flight man.

it's like the stock market. I should have pulled out about 5-7 years ago, got married and been done with it. I was dating some GREAT girls back then but just wasn't into getting married, had alot I wanted to do. I had no idea the "market" was going to "crash" like it has the past 5 years. had I forseen all these changes I would have got the fvck out looooong time ago. you're right though, I have women now acting like they can do better and i'm some low class bum, yet i make 10 times what they do, i own my own house, have very minimal debt, doing very well for myself. yet some stupid waitress or hairdresser acts like she's a much better catch then me.

 

[SoldMySoul]

girls don't want a guy to be traditional anymore, they've killed it. what I mean is back then you NEVER met a girl out somewhere. you picked her up from her house, no questions asked. nowdays they all want to meet you out somewhere. they walk so fast that you have to be a world class sprinter to be able to get in front of them and open their door. you're freaking tired by the end of the night from all the running you have to do! back then she'd stand their and WAIT on you to open her door.



single moms were RARE. I could count on one hand how many I knew. now it's like I'M the odd person because I don't have a little b@astard kid running around. either guys knew to wear a condom back then or make sure the train pulled out of the station on time, but now I swear these guys don't know how to have sex. their dumbass must have fell asleep during Biology when they taught reproduction.


girls were alot more classy back then, alot more fun. sure you had to put up with some bs but it wasn't anything that would drive you out of your fvcking mind like now. you had to play the game, but you didnt have to do it on a daily basis. you just had to play it long enough to get her number and one date and the rest was golden.

girls seemed to be smarter back then, had more common sense. there's so many flat out IDIOTS out there today that I honestly have a hard time finding one that's on my education level.

that's about all I can think of for now.

Man you hit the nail on the head!!!! I cannot find a woman without a brat!!! Grown brats still living at home are a royal pain in the ass too!!! It is very hard to find women that are childless. Women with class??? That is hard to find as well!!

Last woman I dated had absolutely none. It was a period day for her and she right in front of me squatted in my bathroom to insert the blood rocket... I was fvcking baffled!!!!!

The rules have changed and so have women. In their pursuit of independence... They have become so hard headed, most are No fun whatsoever! Chivalry has all but died. Try opening a car door for one these days and before your a$$ is out the driver's seat she is already out of the car.

I'd like to add when you think you have found the right one, she will shock the $hit out of you...Proving you were a fool for believing in her. Just had that happen several months ago. Men get a bad rap for being dogs...but the fairer sex can demolish a nation and can be way worse.

Women today expect things with no appreciation!!

Robert you get repped sir!!!

 

[backbreaker]

yesterday i had a cook out in the back yard and invited alot of my friends over or what not and i saw the saddest **** man i wanted to cry.

this dude, I mean, he's by no means a catch but he's.. he works in construction, i know him from the track he comes over from time to time we shoot the ****. anyway works hard every day so he's in realitivly good shape, he's not handsome but not ugly either.. just an avg dude. this dude walks in wtih his new GF.. this fvcking 300 pound battle tank.


lol, that's not even the worst part about it lol. she brought her 2 kids lol one is like 5 the other is like 8. which i mean id on't care if they were over my house gives my son something to do,but I mean, really? this is the best you can do? not only is she fat she's short and fat. so it's like 2x worse. and when i say 300, she's every bit of 300 pounds.

the dude is maybe my height, maybe an inch taller, not as cut as i am but he's not fat maybe 185 ish.

**** is pathetic son. i just wanted to tell dude man you have to hold out for a better offer than this bull****

 

[SoldMySoul]

yesterday i had a cook out in the back yard and invited alot of my friends over or what not and i saw the saddest **** man i wanted to cry.

this dude, I mean, he's by no means a catch but he's.. he works in construction, i know him from the track he comes over from time to time we shoot the ****. anyway works hard every day so he's in realitivly good shape, he's not handsome but not ugly either.. just an avg dude. this dude walks in wtih his new GF.. this fvcking 300 pound battle tank.


lol, that's not even the worst part about it lol. she brought her 2 kids lol one is like 5 the other is like 8. which i mean id on't care if they were over my house gives my son something to do,but I mean, really? this is the best you can do? not only is she fat she's short and fat. so it's like 2x worse. and when i say 300, she's every bit of 300 pounds.

the dude is maybe my height, maybe an inch taller, not as cut as i am but he's not fat maybe 185 ish.

**** is pathetic son. i just wanted to tell dude man you have to hold out for a better offer than this bull****

Bet if you ask his new lady friend is she a catch she would say, "My man is lucky to have me..." That is the mentality of a lot of women today. I cannot bash all of them, but the older I get the more I just shake my head in disbelief. I am way beyond hitting/ quitting for a fun. I have a trashy little 24 year old that hits on me so often.. I play her game for a moment then withdraw. She expects me to chase her down. First, the half nude pics she sent turned me off. I only chase what is worth the chase and she "ain't" it! Just not interested in adding another belt notch.. call me a pvssy.. I am looking to settle down with a quality woman that exudes confidence and class!

 

[Nutz]

http://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/sbkn0/women_have_changed_considerably_in_the_last_1020/

 

[backbreaker]

There you go...the biggest change is that women across the board have too much self-esteem. Who can blame them when a 300 pounder with rugrats is pulling a decent dude way out of her class?

Funny isn't it how we constantly hear about how women and girls need to build their self-esteem and not be exposed to damaging media messages about women. WTF. The messages being blasted across the media landscape are that women are entitled to their dream guy (or series of dream guys) without having to stay in shape, learn to cook, or even act like a woman.

Well, I tried hard not to sound like a grumpy old man, but backbreaker's anecdote brought it out...

I mean.. i"m not bitter at all. I'm very happy. I had adapted enough to be able to have many plates when I was single. But still to say there is NO change you are just being blind

i remember one day about 2 months ago i was at the track.. it was big cap day so actually a month ago, anyway i had went to the gym in the morning and went straight to the track and my wife had to take joe to a birthday party before she met me there so i got there like 3 hours earlier than she did. So I'm with my friends or what not and she shows up and the group of guys i was with had never seen my wife and they are just sitting there like god damn dude that's you? i'm like yeah this is my wife, here are y friends or what not. and one of them was like, damn i bet you spoil the **** out of her dont you, or what did you have to buy her to get her to agree to do that lol... and the sad part is, they really weren't joking. like it was a joke but it really wasn't. like, in most dudes mind, the only way you can have a woman who is easy on the eyes agree to marry you is to be rich or to trick her into doing it.

that makes me sadder than anything honestly. beucse it should not be like that. when fvcking 300 pound battle tanks have options and demands you can imagine what a very attractive woman who isn't a total ***** or head case is going to demand. this is how the avg guy thinks. but a woman should not be demanding anything.

i laughed it off then becuase that was not the time nor the place to get into Backbreaker mode, but over the days and seeing her just interact with me.. i mean it's clear who runs the show in the backbreaker household and it's not her, and the dudes are like dude WTF how do you do it. and you try to tell someone look man you have set standards in your woman and whatever standards you set in a woman you have to demand out of yourself but no one wants to hear it.


We should not even NEED a ross jefferies or a sousave today in age. sosuave 20 years ago was my dad sitting in the car talking to me about how women work while driving home. where has that gone. men have NO clue. the avg man. i am 100% convinced. whatever clue they have come from women or they take advise from the one friend who "scored out of his league" and whatever chump **** he tells them which is all wrong.


it really is a sad state of affairs. It's not something that can't be overcame with game, hard work and wit, but still you should not have to get a masters degree and acquire 100k worth of debt trying to impress people just to shag a woman who is easy on the eyes.

 

[backbreaker]

you know what.. i want to get this off my chest since we are talking about **** that has changed.

men have changed too. we have talked about how men have no game i'm not talking about that.

growing up. like i look at my dad. My dad whose nick name is danny as his real name is too gay to be used by anyone who doesn't know him lol, has 2 best friends, bert and dokes. they have a side kick who tags along their adventures when his wife lets him out the house name David. all of them are pretty decent with women. all of them are cheaters but that's not the point of the thread. they don't hate on each other. i have seen my dad let bert use his house to do what he has to do with a broad before. hell i've been there when he's been doing it. i've seen my dad cover for them. my dad pulls a nice piece they gather around and tell war stories and what not and have drinks and it's all good, laughs, jokes, fun and games or what not. there is no hating. my dad pulls a bad one out of a bag and they are genineually happy for him.. i mean throw out the fact that he is obviously cheating on his wife, that's for a norther thread. my point is there is no hating going on. we've been in the barber shop and one of his friends is going on about how this new broad he got is really wild or what not and there is no hating. my dad used to take me as a pup to oaklawn with him and his friends when he found out i had a liking of horse racing at a very very early age, like 8 lol. and it's an hour drive from little rock to hot springs and we would be in the car and the entire conversation is just about women and what's going on with the women or what not. there is no hating at all.


man, that **** is gone bye bye. Growing up i was handsome, and i kept a girlfriend usually but i was not so much a player where guys got jealous of what i had or anything I mean what i had was nice but they had that too.

all that changed when i hit 21. when i turned 21 and had multiple women interested in me that were hotter than anything my friends were sleeping with, i found out just how friendly my real friends were which was not very friendly at all. i let one of them basically live with me rent free because he wanted to get out of his house under his mommas roof and he repays me by telling my GF at the time lies (lol truths) about what i was doing behind her back. WTF this is a dude i let eat my food live in my house we have been in class together since the 5th grade and now because i have some nice ass you want to get jealous.

No one wants to see you be successful at anything anymore. Guys dont' try to learn from each other they spend time hating and tearing each other down. i can't tell you how many times my now wife would come back to me and tell me what such and such was in her ear about something he saw me do or a female he saw me talking with trying to get in my wife's ear. when i was actually still single and spinning plates, my friends would go you of the way to tell her the blow by blow of of what i was doing, who i was doing it to and hell i wasn't even really telling them. if i had a girl over my house say Wednesday night and some friends were over and saw her and we all get together saturday by saturday night she would be all in my grill "so what did you do wednesday night backbreaker" . i'm like dude WTF with friends like this who needs enmities.

dudes that are just jealous. not one of them says backbreaker who do you do it man i want to learn how to game women like that. i woudl be more than happy to help. in their worlds what i do is "evil" and they don't want to see me have my cake and eat it too by getting the girl that every man wants but at the same time getting some on the side even though at the time i was not dating her.

it's why i really have on close friends. and it's not just women. if you are successful at anything guys today will spend all their energy tearing you down or trying to to make themselves feel better instead of asking for help or advice or patting you on the back.


millie and i had one mutal friend or who we both knew from the hosre track before we met and i remember when we were dating, not dating but going out with each other and i had went out of town for a week dude spent a full week trying to unclog me out of her mind. telling her tha ti am no good for her and how she can do better, basically all BETA **** and lo and when i touched down she hung up the phone with him and called me and asked me to come get her lol. but needless to say we weren't friends very much longer.

guys today are so unconfident, so unaware, have such low self esteem that they can't be around anyone who doesn't confirm tot heir low self esteem view point of life.

Chris Rock used to have a joke in his act where he talked about the difference between men and women, men bring a nice girl around his friends and the dudes say "ook at her, she's pretty, smart, funny.. i want a girl just like that". a woman brings a man around her friends and she says "look at him, he's fine, he's smart, he's funny.. i want THAT man"

but that's men now too. if the woman is hot enough all bets are off.

 

[Warrior74]

BB you nailed it on that. Which is why I don't have many guy friends. The guys I grew up with were always scheming on my girls. The two guys in college who were the biggest players I knew and helped me come out of my shell were like your Dad's buddies. They are still friends to this day and still go out and cheat on their wives and help each other out. I never really found any bros like that. Even my current roommate tried to hit on two of my girls behind my back and tried to steal one of my promotional events. I don't give him an inch now. Pay your bills, leave me alone. The few cool guys I have met are generally in a higher tax bracket and social circle than myself and they do things that I can't really afford to do so it makes them hard to hang out with. I don't want some rich guys trying to pay my way.