question for mature dj's on marriage

[BigDawg]

Originally posted by sexualchocolate

It seems that every, and I mean EVERY peer of mine that is/has been married is absolutely distgusted with their marriage, or been divorced within a few years.

...

I was just curious if anybody out there has a perfect marriage. And what were you guys thoughts on marriage. I am willing to bet there are a few guys here because of previous divorces.

Wow! every married/divorced peer of yours is absolutely disgusted with marriage? That's amazing. It certainly tracks with the high divorce rate.

Call me cynical (and bitter and jaded), but in my case, the vast majority (> 95 %) of my married friends and acquaintances are happily involved (or they are doing a good job of hiding the truth). I can't speak about the rest of my peer group, since I don't know them well enough to know about their marital history. But I find it amazing that I can count on one hand the people I know who are divorced, myself included.

I say "call me cynical" because I feel like I'm the only one who can't make a relationship work. Feeling that way is enough to make me embittered and jaded.

But to throw my two pennies in and answer your question, all marriages require work, as several contributors have astutely pointed out. What makes for a successful relationship is the ability to resolve conflict. It's more about compatible maturity levels, communication, and conflict resolution than about love and kittens and sunshine.

You're right about Hollywood trying to distort the truth of it. The ironic thing there is that, look at the morons who portray happily married couples in the movies. What percentage of people in Hollywood can boast of a happy marriage that runs longer than a few years?

You're probably right about a few readers being here because of their divorces. I got over my own divorce a few years ago, and so it's not at all a motivator for me to come here. In my case, I've got some screaming AFC characteristics that I'm learning how to get rid of.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Originally posted by penkitten
however , lots of ppl do pre nups. however they are a waste of time unless you have major assets.

Patently false. Spousal support and alimony (as well as child support) are assessed by state legislation not only on assets aquired during the period of marriage, but also on the ability to pay in support aggregate to increases in future income. Meaning just like child support a previous spouse may petition for more support dependent on the supporting spouse to pay in the future. This may be lesser or greater depending on the state issuing the divorce and/or the overall duration of the marriage. In other words, your exwife can legally make support claims on future earnings even after divorce - I've got 2 friends in this very situation.


It never ceases to amaze me the sage wisdom divorced people have about 'successful' marriages. And maybe that's half of the problem, what defines a successful marriage? It sounds so goal oriented. I know 70 year old men who've maintained a lifetime of misery with a woman who they never should've married, but they never divorced. Is that 'success'?

I'll have been married for 9 years on July 20, so let me clear up one very common misperception - A good marriage is effortless. All this horsesh!t about "marriage is hard work" or "you have to compromise to make it work" is chick-speak for "I haven't fixed him yet, but he's working on it to be more acceptable too my idealizations." The best reason I can give you for the success of my marriage is that we both respect each others individual identities and know our gender roles.

I can cite to you countless examples of divorces due exactly to the misguided notion that women need to 'fix' men into their ideal mate and men who internalized this and attempted to live up to a constantly changing female standard.

9 years married and I can tell you the key as to why my marriage has outlasted several of my friends - we both know what is expected from each other.

We both work because we have to and we enjoy the mutual benefits of doing so, but too many guys seem to think that for a woman to work it should in any way detract from a firm understanding of gender roles. I make the lion's share of our income, she augments this. She takes care of the laundry, I take care of the cars. She attends to the inside of the house, I take care of the outside of it. She vaccuums, but I never let her touch a trash can. We both put the dishes in the dishwasher because they fvcken stink if you leave them there for too long and we both do homework with our daughter. We both stay in great shape for each other and take care of each other sexually.

 

[penkitten]

i thought most states did away with alimony stuff...

 

[crowes22]

Rollo, I agree with your statements completely. Nice post. Very realistic.

You went in w/ no pre nup, I'm guessing? What made you comfortable doing this?

--Crowes

 

[penkitten]

Originally posted by crowes22
UHH, can you answer this simple question? It would explain alot if you can.

--Crowes

by suggesting that she sign one, will make her think that you dont trust her, and that you expect the marriage not to work. therefore, alot of women will see this as a bad sign, and not marry you at all.

 

[crowes22]

Originally posted by penkitten
by suggesting that she sign one, will make her think that you dont trust her, and that you expect the marriage not to work. therefore, alot of women will see this as a bad sign, and not marry you at all.

If so, she is a hypocrite, not to mention a fvcking idiot. So I wouldn't want her as a wife anyway.

By her not signing, I lose trust in her. Her intentions have not been defined, not honestly. Come on PK, let's get real.

--Crowes

 

[penkitten]

Originally posted by crowes22
If so, she is a hypocrite, not to mention a fvcking idiot. So I wouldn't want her as a wife anyway.

By her not signing, I lose trust in her. Her intentions have not been defined, not honestly. Come on PK, let's get real.

--Crowes

then neither are yours in her eyes.

 

[crowes22]

Originally posted by penkitten
then neither are yours in her eyes.

Wrong. I am the one with everything to lose, not her!

This is VERY important! You idiot puzzified boys out there need to read this or either you will be trampled on til you end up another pathetic fool. Wake up punks!!

--I'm only trying to help. Ignore me now--pay the REST of your life! Women are great to fvck, simply remember what I said.

--Crowes

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Originally posted by crowes22
I am the one with everything to lose, not her!

said the guy who has lost nothing, to the girl who has lost everything.

 

[crowes22]

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
said the guy who has lost nothing, to the girl who has lost everything.

What has she lost?

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Originally posted by crowes22
What has she lost?

I already told you, her ex-husband took off, took all the stuff, emptied the bank account, not even leaving enough to pay the electric bill. While she had three kids.

What have you lost?

 

[DJohnson]

penkitten,

where do you live? were you kidding when you said most states did away with alamony? I is the defacto law across the US when a man gets divorced that if he has any assets at all, even if the wifey sat on her ass watching Days of our Lives eating bon bons all day that she gets half...

 

[Cesare Cardinali]

Crowes wrote:
"I am the one with everything to lose, not her"

Dude, you crack me up. Do you attract any chicks with this attitude?

More importantly, it seems to me that you're assuming that you'll attract some loser chick as your future wife. Someone who won't be able to stand on her own two feet by being a success in this world in her own right.

Why else are you so maniacally affraid of losing a bunch of material posessions? Ideally, your chick should be totally into you, and if she's not, then you didn't do your job right as a seducer/DJ.

Furthermore, unless you're a loser too, you should be aiming for high quality chicks that make as much money as you (or more) and who wouldn't have any any need or reason to take you to the cleaners.

However, your attitude conveys to me that you've got low self esteem and don't trust in your abilities to attract a great girl; in which case you know that you'll probably settle for some trailer trash reject and you're arguing that a pre-nup is your best form of protection. My view, become the type of guy that attracts great girls who have their sh*t together, and chances are the chicks'll ask you to sign a pre nup....LOL.

Cheers,

Cesare Cardinali

 

[DJohnson]

Originally posted by Cesare Cardinali
Crowes wrote:
"I am the one with everything to lose, not her"

Dude, you crack me up. Do you attract any chicks with this attitude?

More importantly, it seems to me that you're assuming that you'll attract some loser chick as your future wife. Someone who won't be able to stand on her own two feet by being a success in this world in her own right.

Why else are you so maniacally affraid of losing a bunch of material posessions? Ideally, your chick should be totally into you, and if she's not, then you didn't do your job right as a seducer/DJ.

Furthermore, unless you're a loser too, you should be aiming for high quality chicks that make as much money as you (or more) and who wouldn't have any any need or reason to take you to the cleaners.

However, your attitude conveys to me that you've got low self esteem and don't trust in your abilities to attract a great girl; in which case you know that you'll probably settle for some trailer trash reject and you're arguing that a pre-nup is your best form of protection. My view, become the type of guy that attracts great girls who have their sh*t together, and chances are the chicks'll ask you to sign a pre nup....LOL.

Cheers,

Cesare Cardinali

This is a good attitude. Adopt it. NOW

 

[dietzcoi]

Why would anybody come on here and attack crowes22 for telling the truth? He is trying to help guys avoid being taken to the cleaners! Why are some of you against this?

Do not play CPT-SAV-A-HO!!

How many times do we have to tell you that?

Crowes22 is 99% dead on... true his attitude will run off the gold diggers but so what?

Once you get burned, your attitude will change, I hope, unless you have to play the white knight and "save" poor females, who need only your money to be saved

Please do not do it!

Dietzcoi

 

[DrDope]

Many pre-nups are non-binding.

Also, if someone asked me to sign one, I would laugh in their face.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Name one benefit for a man in marriage that he cannot have in single life? Just one.

The problem with modern marriage is that it's not respected for what it is - the best deal on the planet for a woman at the highest risk possible for the man. If my wife fvcks my best freind on the couch in front of me and files for divorce thereafter, she is entitled to half of my assets (as well as future earnings in some cases). If I cheat, she gets at least half as well. If my wife has run up thousands of dollars on her credit card in her college years on trips to Cancun for spring break to fvck bad boys with her girlfriends, I am jointly liable for her debt upon signing a marriage contract. All of that lingerie she bought at Victoria Secret on her VISA card in her 20's to get after it with her college boyfriend? You're paying for that hubby!

In marriage a man has to sacrifice his primary motivator (unlimited access to unlimited sexual partners) to satisfy a woman's primary motivator (ensured security in marriage) at his own personal risk to his life's ambitions, financial status and self-image. You are correct, most men enter into marriage after being conditioned for a lifetime to think "it's the right thing to do" or else buy into the delusion that marriage represents a better agency to consistent sexual satisfaction and women are more than opportunistic enough to foster this 'Bait & Switch' mentality. I've yet to run into the married guy to tell me how much better or how much more sex he's having now that he's married. In fact it's almost universally the opposite - the sex dries up in quality and quantity, because the woman has what she needs, security. This is the single most common complaint married men come to me with. "She's not into it anymore."

So the bait's been switched; this wasn't the deal he signed up for and now it's all about liabilities and responsibilities and "working on himself" (at her behest) to better placate to a constantly changing standard of acceptability for her security. Sex becomes the 'golden carrot' for which he'll tow the responsibility cart in order to find any kind of reinforcement for his decision to marry her. It becomes a naturally occuring experiment in behavioral psychology - sex is his reinforcement and security is the motivator of the behavior she wants to condition in him. In behaviorism this is called an Intermittent Schedule of Reinforcement. It's the same principle used for slot machines in casinos. If all you ever did was pump quarter after quarter into a slot machine and never got even a return payoff occasionally no one would ever play (the desired behavior). But Intermittently reniforce this behavior with an occasional payout (not necessarily a jackpot) and you'll get the most consistent results. In marriage it becomes the same friggin' thing for a guy.

Now before I get all of this hate response for coming off as chauvinistic or down on marriage, let me add that women rarely ever do this maliciously, and more often than not don't even realize they are doing it. That's how naturally it occurs and this is only reinforced for her when a guy internalizes an understanding that this is just "the way marriage is" and resigns himself to his fate. I know 65 year old men who are still trapped in this cycle and feel helpless or out of control in this regard, and thus tolerate the liabilities for the occasional payout. That is NOT a successful marriage, that is a lifetime of patronization and compromise.

I just get physically ill whenever I hear a guy (or especially his wife) tell me about how "they're working on their marriage." In every instance it comes back to this 'golden carrot' dynamic for the guy. Never is it her making an attempt have even a semblance of the chemical, sexual desire they had for each other prior to marriage. Never is the 'work' about her. The single most common reasons for divorce is sex and money, and in that order. Interesting how these two issues are the outcome of both sexe's individual motivators.

 

[Travis1962]

Rollo - great post, I couldn't' have put it better myself. I've been divorced twice - coming out of it, I haven't found the answer to the question, "so, what's in it for me?". It was this very question that led to the termination of my second marriage. That question made my second wife feel bad. I'll stop there about those personal stories.

I'll note the blank stares I get from women when I ask them "what's in it for me". They have clearly been led to believe they're answer is a single word, "me". Women derive their status from their partner. Many want to feel that all they need to do is show up. This is how many want to be validated.


As far as divorce law goes, most states support splitting all assets acquired during the marriage 50/50. Many states still support alimony.

Regarding statements of women who got "stuck" with their kids - these statement smack of the same rhetoric of women avoiding responsibility. When ANYONE has a child, they accept joint responsibility. "Joint" does NOT mean it's a 50/50 deal - it means that each person is 100% responsible. (Think about joint credit cards). So, when you have kids, everyone should be prepared to raise them on their own - without complaint. With the joy that comes with being a parent.

Here's another angle - I have a woman friend who's divorced with a daughter. I tell her that I'm am only interested in dating (other ) women casually - I don't really want a relationship. She says she doesn't understand that. She would only want a sexual relationship with a man if he avowed his love to her and committed to her. Of course. If I commit to a woman, I am accepting responsibility for her. If she gets a man to commit to her, she has the security that he provides to her.

 

[Junior Sanz]

WoW ROLLO!

definitely have my eyes WIDE open now!

 

[Junior Sanz]

I work damn hard for my $$$ and to have the things i have. i couldnt imagine some chic taking that from me in a split instant because SHE decides "i dont want to be with you anymore"

yea right! i always laughed and thought my uncle was being funny when he said to me and every single one of my other cousins:

lessons in life:

DONT GET MARRIED
DONT HAVE KIDS
DONT BUY A HOUSE


but now im starting to rethink his philosophy