Push and pull works (FR)

[Darth]

Further evidence....

I'm working on a project with this girl. Solid HB8. When we first met, the teacher asked if we'd be comfortable working together and i said, "I'll be VERY comfortable" with a smirk. She blushed and my intentions were clear. But then she was cold the first couple of times I saw her. I would flirt or say something along those lines, and she was making a point of being business-like and not showing interest.

So I lost interest in her and didn't consider her as a possibility. 3rd time we worked together and she was saying she was apolitical because she was a Jehovah's Witness. Which was news to me. Now that I didn't care about what happened, I just argued with her for over an hour as to why she was wrong and why that religion doesn't make sense, with irrefutable logic. I argued without any regard for her feelings, like I would argue with another guy.

And I tell you....as I was arguing she seemed to be getting more and more turned on. She started touching me, and I touched her (when I was making a good point, for instance.)

Then she smiled and said she thought the conversation wasn't going anywhere. But she didn't get up to leave. Then she said she didn't like what I was saying, but she was smiling. Then I leaned over and hugged her and kissed her on the cheek. THEN she got up to leave.

So, the next day I was nice, and she couldn't keep her hands off of me. I thought I was acting the same, but there must have been a subtle shift because the next time, I continued to be friendly and then near the end of the meeting, I complimented the color of her eyes, and she didn't take it well. She went back to the business like, standoffish approach.

So I thought, OK- she's pretty but I'm sick of this now.

So today I saw her in class and we talked for about a minute. At first, she was talking like it was my privilege to be talking to her, but I responded in a curt disinterested way. She said "OK, I'll see you later. Bye." in a much more submissive and flirty way. I didn't respond.

This must have worried her, lol, because 15 minutes out of class, she calls me on her cell phone. Twice. After the second time, I called her back, and I still acted disinterested, which was hard. She sounded so nice on the phone.

But this time I knew better. She wasn't just being nice...she's changed her tune because now she is worried.

Amazing stuff! It's one thing to read about these things, but when you actually experience it this way it's so much more real. Try it for yourself if you get the chance.

 

[boomerick]

Most of the stuff in the Bible and the Archives is like this...

The hardest thing around here is convincing the NEWBs to read the stuff first and try it out....

BEFORE either....

Asking obvious questions ....OR...

Deciding that SS is worthless.....


Read it ....try it....then ask about it....


Over and Out.

 

[Real Talk]

Yup. My problem with push/pull is that its pretty easy to employ, as its kind of like not being real and "acting" in a way. You aren't totally putting yourself out there, and theres little risk of rejection.

This will keep a women around for a little bit, but if you're not actually sexing her already its a game that she will eventually find tired and boring.

Sooner or later you gotta grab your kahunas and just express, more directly, your interest and intentions with her.

 

[Igetit!]

I really hate to be a voice of descention here,but where's all that leading to?


I agree with you that push/pull works because if does.

I know because I've done it myself,but all that stuff you said that went on between you and this girl,is there a purpose to it?


You said that she seems to have changed her tune towards you because she got a bit worried when you showed some disinterest towards her,and because of her being worried,she called you twice.



Well it's cool that she called you and everything,and if you're goal was simply to get a phonecall from her,then I guess you got what you were after,but really, how much effort does it take to make a phonecall? That's not really too much of an investment.



All of that that happened between you and her:her seeming interested,then acting business-like,you giving her a compliment,her turning a bit cold,then you pulling back,then her seeming interested in you again.....if all of that had resulted in you two going out on a date,or even you two getting physical with each other,i.e:hugging,kissing,sexual touching,etc,then I'd say that'd be somewhat of an achievement.


I'm not trying to rain on your charcoal dude,it just seems that going through everything you just mentioned with the outcome of ALL THAT turning out to be just receiving a phonecall (or two) from her seems like a bit of a low goal to shoot for.

 

[Amazing]

This is hilarious, let me clue you in bud


she was interested because you started arguing and talking to her like guys don't - you didnt care about sex you wanted to make a point and were going for it.


the forumla is:

you give attention >>> she runs

you withdraw >> she comes

like a cat


this is very very basic and you are still on level 1. There are thing you are doing wrong but I am thinking you should just learn from the mistakes here


for one, I'd never argue religion with anyone, even though no religion makes sense and I can prove it - it is a bad social move.

Here is what you do - be very business like, act like you have antoehr girl you are seeing and this one is JUST friends. Start teasing her on being a dork and saying funny things.. start treating her like a friend AND if she touches you and shows interest, bust her on it and be like "HEY, we are project partners, stop trying to cop a feel here girl!"


that's level 2. see if you can get there without losing it

 

[Darth]

^^I have to explain, that I didn't mean to do that. I was genuinely interested, then genuinely disinterested.

My goal is: I want her.

We did get physical....I kissed her on the cheek and we were touching each other a lot (when we were supposed to be working)

My goal is always to get more physical.

Ironically, when I was hitting on her, she became less interested, but when I was in her face and telling her she was wrong, she became attracted. After she called me twice, I realized I have been unwittingly using this technique, and I see the way I screwed up before by removing the challenge after she opened up to me.

"Sooner or later you gotta grab your kahunas and just express, more directly, your interest and intentions with her."

That's basically the thing that WASN'T working.

I mean, after this project is done I can say whatever I want. Even if I think she'll say no I'll still ask her for practice, and let you know what happens.

 

[Darth]

This is hilarious, let me clue you in bud


Here is what you do - be very business like, act like you have antoehr girl you are seeing and this one is JUST friends. Start teasing her on being a dork and saying funny things.. start treating her like a friend AND if she touches you and shows interest, bust her on it and be like "HEY, we are project partners, stop trying to cop a feel here girl!"


that's level 2. see if you can get there without losing it

Will do. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Sandow]

If she's responding positively to your jerkiness, then don't stop doing that. Like you said she totally changes when you start complimenting her and becomes disinterested.

You're not really doing push/pull here. If she was actually into your compliments, then that would be different and be more push/pull. But it sounds like she's just more into jerks. My advice: Don't stop being a jerk and or uninterested. You can compliment her but do them sparingly.

 

[CRUSHER]

One method similar to push pull, I act AFC for a moment and then I bust her balls. Typically I say something like "I'm so in love with you" with a completely serious tone. When she stares at me like I'm a chump I say "Well mostly your ass". Cue her being embarrassed and riled up but most importantly horny and certainly a make out session. Same effect as passing a sh!t test except I can control it to an extent.

 

[Trader]

Further evidence....

I'm working on a project with this girl. Solid HB8. When we first met, the teacher asked if we'd be comfortable working together and i said, "I'll be VERY comfortable" with a smirk. She blushed and my intentions were clear. But then she was cold the first couple of times I saw her. I would flirt or say something along those lines, and she was making a point of being business-like and not showing interest.

So I lost interest in her and didn't consider her as a possibility. 3rd time we worked together and she was saying she was apolitical because she was a Jehovah's Witness. Which was news to me. Now that I didn't care about what happened, I just argued with her for over an hour as to why she was wrong and why that religion doesn't make sense, with irrefutable logic. I argued without any regard for her feelings, like I would argue with another guy.

And I tell you....as I was arguing she seemed to be getting more and more turned on. She started touching me, and I touched her (when I was making a good point, for instance.)

Then she smiled and said she thought the conversation wasn't going anywhere. But she didn't get up to leave. Then she said she didn't like what I was saying, but she was smiling. Then I leaned over and hugged her and kissed her on the cheek. THEN she got up to leave.

So, the next day I was nice, and she couldn't keep her hands off of me. I thought I was acting the same, but there must have been a subtle shift because the next time, I continued to be friendly and then near the end of the meeting, I complimented the color of her eyes, and she didn't take it well. She went back to the business like, standoffish approach.

So I thought, OK- she's pretty but I'm sick of this now.

So today I saw her in class and we talked for about a minute. At first, she was talking like it was my privilege to be talking to her, but I responded in a curt disinterested way. She said "OK, I'll see you later. Bye." in a much more submissive and flirty way. I didn't respond.

This must have worried her, lol, because 15 minutes out of class, she calls me on her cell phone. Twice. After the second time, I called her back, and I still acted disinterested, which was hard. She sounded so nice on the phone.

But this time I knew better. She wasn't just being nice...she's changed her tune because now she is worried.

Amazing stuff! It's one thing to read about these things, but when you actually experience it this way it's so much more real. Try it for yourself if you get the chance.

Push and pull does work but what I realized was that push and pull is a *natural off-shoot* of courage, self-esteem, and self-confidence.

Remember the general guideline: natural > artificial.

It is one thing to try to force yourself to push and pull - but it is even more effective when it comes out of you naturally

 

[Kailex]

I really hate to be a voice of descention here,but where's all that leading to?

I hate it when you show up in a thread, its like you READ MY MIND.

Push and pull works, FINE. But, what happened?
I kept expecting a pay-off at some point of the OP and there was NONE.

Had the story concluded with something... better, then it has its merits, but a kiss on the cheek and a few phone calls does not make this a complete success story.

I will give the OP some credit, he's working it well, but he needs to lead this somewhere and SOON. This all seems to fit a time frame of a couple of weeks.

I mean, have you two gone out? Have you kissed her on the lips since? Does she KNOW that you want to see her beyond the normal parameters?

You can only do INITIAL push/pull so much before it starts boring her.

Back in my hometown, everyonce kisses cheeks to say hello/goodbye, and even though it's a cultural thing, it really means nothing in the end. Touching and kissing is something any friend can do. You need to speed up the process and NOW.

OP, get this to go SOMEWHERE and then report about it.
I'll give you props though for initial interaction but it just seems like it's taking too long to get anywhere.

 

[Darth]

I've only known her about 10, 11 days....

 

[Amazing]

He isn't doing push pull guys, he is doing the broad strokes of giving too much interest and not giving interest


push pull is micro calibration where you change each sentence 180 and use KINO really well. It works great as well.

 

[Real Talk]

^^I have to explain, that I didn't mean to do that. I was genuinely interested, then genuinely disinterested.

My goal is: I want her.

We did get physical....I kissed her on the cheek and we were touching each other a lot (when we were supposed to be working)

My goal is always to get more physical.

Ironically, when I was hitting on her, she became less interested, but when I was in her face and telling her she was wrong, she became attracted. After she called me twice, I realized I have been unwittingly using this technique, and I see the way I screwed up before by removing the challenge after she opened up to me.

"Sooner or later you gotta grab your kahunas and just express, more directly, your interest and intentions with her."

That's basically the thing that WASN'T working.

I mean, after this project is done I can say whatever I want. Even if I think she'll say no I'll still ask her for practice, and let you know what happens.

If you want her to get your **** wet at some point you're going to have to stop playing these games and be more forward about it. You should still proceed methodically and with a good idea of how receptive she is to you, but she's not going to all of a sudden start rubbing your **** because you didn't talk to her for a day. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Kailex]

This all seems to fit a time frame of a couple of weeks.

Darth: I've only known her about 10, 11 days....

Exactly.

Escalate.

NOW.

 

[Amazing]

No. Escalate what? He is going to go for a kiss and she'll be like "uhh let's be friends"

he needs HER to chase him. That's why he needs to bust on her and tease her and show her he doesn't really care.

 

[Sandow]

Unless you're actually doing something sexually with this girl, sounds to me like in you're in the friend zone and she just toying with you and fuking with your head. Wishful thinking can interfere with your mindset

 

[Igetit!]

Unless you're actually doing something sexually with this girl, sounds to me like in you're in the friend zone

RIGHT. And going by what you've (Darth) said so far,I've sensed NOTHING romantic/sexual coming from you towards her....and that "grandma" kiss on the cheek doesn't count.


In fact,that little kiss on the cheek may have done more harm than good.

...and she just toying with you and fuking with your head.

A woman CAN'T TOY with a REAL man.

So if she is toying with Darth,then that means that he screwed up or had an AFC moment somewhere in his interacting with her.

I've only known her like 10, 11 days....

So basically all of this...

you showing interest,she pulls back
you pull back,then she seems interested
you compliment her on her eyes,then she acts standoffish
you thinking,"she's pretty,but I'm sick of this".
her speaking to you if is it were a privilage for you just to be in her presense

...then the cycle starting all over again with you pulling back and her seeming to be interested in you again,this has been going on for the past 2 weeks.


This shouldn't be man. If this girl doesn't even know that you have interest in her,then you're doing something wrong.

I'm beginning to get this feeling that this girl may be an AW.




There's only 3 ways women respond to a guy showing interest in them.....

1:They recipricate,or that is,they show interest back.
2:They reject you,or...
3:They friendzone you,which is just another form of rejection.



It's 1,2,or 3. If none of these has happened after two weeks,you're just wasting time man.



Eventually....if you want to date this girl,you're going to have to ask her out. She should already know that you're interested in her,I mean come on man,it's been almost two weeks.


So when you do ask her out,if she seems to be somewhat "surprised" or "shocked",then you might want to opt out of that "cat and mouse" game you've been doing and try a more direct approach.

 

[Darth]

OK, now I'm confused....

But I'll make it simple. I'll follow "Amazing"'s advice until we finish the project. Then I'll just go for it. Even if she doesn't like me by that point I'll do it for the practice.

"had an AFC moment somewhere in his interacting with her."

Yeah, that is true. I slipped at one point. And maybe should have gone for the mouth not the cheek.

Btw she knows damn well I WAS interested at one point. Like I said, when I'm interested, she's not, but when I stop considering her as an option suddenly she's into me (lots of touching and etc).

But one thing is for sure, and that is... the innuendo isn't working. Next move will be aggressive and unmistakable....

 

[Kailex]

No. Escalate what? He is going to go for a kiss and she'll be like "uhh let's be friends"

he needs HER to chase him. That's why he needs to bust on her and tease her and show her he doesn't really care.

Logical steps first.

He needs to get her OUT and stop the lollygagging around.

What, he's supposed to spend another 2 weeks doing this and accomplish WHAT? He can go for a kiss after he's made his intentions TRULY clear. What's the point of getting someone to chase you if you aren't going to act at any point.

Are you clearly suggesting that he should simply keep doing what he's doing?

That's what I don't understand.

It's been TWO WEEKS of this.
I'm pretty sure that if she IS interested, she's already asked herself: Is he going to ask me out or what?

She's not going to do it for him, no matter how much push/pull he does, she's still going to wait for him to be the man and lead.

So far, two weeks and multiple interactions of the same thing are doing nothing but setting a pre-standard. Two more weeks of that, and he'll just be wasting valuable time, both HIS and HERS. That's time that someone else who did just the same as he did but condensed it into a smaller time frame... to come in and take her away in 2 - 3 days.

He needs to act now.

And if it were me, I'd rather ask her to come out with me, two days from now, and then go in for a kiss and LJBFed than wait a few more weeks, try this out and STILL run the risk of wasting my time on a possible LJBF. I don't mess around for too long.

Two weeks is nothing in comparison to a year, but in a situation like this, it can be a lot of time.