Problems with disrespect from wife

[jophil28]

. I have been way too nice for too long.

Yes, being nice = being accomodating, accepting, tolerant and supportive of her "needs for self-actualization" ...or so a therapist will tell you.
In doing so you will make feminists everywhere glow with smug satisfaction that your wife has you acting like her personal assistant.

Too bad your 'niceness' is draining the life essence out of your marriage.

 

[Nutz]

http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/08/14/relationship-game-week-a-readers-journey/

 

[heroshima]

Yes, being nice = being accomodating, accepting, tolerant and supportive of her "needs for self-actualization" ...or so a therapist will tell you.
In doing so you will make feminists everywhere glow with smug satisfaction that your wife has you acting like her personal assistant.

Too bad your 'niceness' is draining the life essence out of your marriage.

Damn, you're right.

I've been thinking about everything she's saying as being the opposite now. Like she has said "i don't like it when you are controlling". I can see now how she needs that and has lost respect for me because I have let her dictate the course of things lately.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

Heroshima -- man I feel your pain, and even the name of your title here makes me think that you are awaiting "the bombs to drop".

Look being a father and nurturing a living thing is touchy business. It is hard to somehow give love, while also not being viewed as a "wuss", because love and care takes a certain sensitivity, and some women seem to be disgusted by this, as they gain mental imagery of "limp members" and long soap operas. But I understand your desire to be loving and caring towards your children and to try and do what you must to keep your wife happy (which for some men can be an impossible thing).

I would not say that your relationship is entirely over. If she has not cheated that is. If she has cheated, than that is something for you to decide, but usually, this will be a recipe for to undermine your own self-respect in the long run. Hey, you were able to keep it in your pants but she was not able to keep someone else out of hers. Weakness. (but again, do not jump to conclusions).

I would say start doing something that shows an extreme change in your behavior. Start working out everyday after work. Buy new clothes that complement you. Buy a ticket to some event that means something to you. Find a guy buddy to go start hanging out with. Take your kids on an adventure while she is out with the "guitar man".

Truly, it sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and are aware of the situation. I do not think you have to fold your cards immediately, if you can re-inspire lust and attraction in her. I am not saying this is going to be an easy or straightforward thing to do.

My questions to you: (1) have you both kept your health up in these seventeen years? (2) does she work for a living or are you supporting her and her new music career, (3) have you met the guitarist guy and tried to befriend him? This may be too late now, as she already knows you "disapprove" of their friendship, but best thing might be to do is take him in and make him admire you somehow, become his friend, make him look up to you...just ideas...

There are some jaded views on this website with women and relationship, so be forewarned, some guys are telling you to secure your $$ now -- make your moves carefully as even certain lines of thoughts can bring things to a life of their own...

Women traditionally seem to get the upperhand in 'divorce' related legal decisions...keep that in mind. Protect what you've worked for (especially if she's been living off of you).

*note* which is amazing to me how some women seem to have so little remorse or feelings of accountability when mooching off a man for X #years and then raping his bank account and going for custody...if any male did this to another male there would be a straight up brawl...testosterone and anger and suddenly a clenching of fists...which towards a women would then also be domestic violence (I'm not advocating hitting anyone, but it is amazing that a woman can put a man through such a mental mind rape and still tell herself she's a victim as she's pouring out her grievances to her chicken-headed friends) -- perhaps I've become slightly jaded I am unsure.

Take control of your life man. It's the only way.

/edit -- it sounds like you are more "on top of your ****" than she is, and she's ****ing you around and living in a fantasy land. If she was to leave you for guitar man I imagine she imagines a successful music career, never mind the family she has been trying to start...she wants to leave off on her mental imagery bird...problem is the wings are fragile and it won't be long until she finds some issues with this guy (if she was to get with him)...the more and more I think about it man, this woman sounds conniving.

 

[Colossus]

Heroshima-

Since we dont know all the details of your marriage, it's hard to tell you exactly what to do. But I do agree with the general tone of advice so far---your best strategy is to take significant action in your own life and how you live it. Marriage counseling is a joke---unless both partners are fully on board and the counselor isnt a leftist pinhead, it only serves to drain your bank account and any remaining frame you have.

You're going to have to start taking decisive daily action. This will have a cumulative effect on her, and if it doesnt, well then you've done all you can friend. Just to reiterate:

-make physical fitness one of your top daily priorities. Be consistent.
-Get up-to-date modern clothes
-Take a night or two per week and do man stuff--poker, watching the fights, or whatever. Also Jophil had a great idea in taking some dancing classes. I recommend Tango, SO many people your age hook up this way and it's very sensual.

***I star this because I think it is critical---STOP with the verbal assertions. You have already said your feeling on the matter, and if you continue to make demands or tell her it's unfair, it just demonstrates you have already lost control. She KNOWS (believe me) what she is doing is disrespectful, but women are splendid at justifying questionable behaviors after the fact. And if you try to call her out on cheating without EXPLICIT evidence, you will get burned.

All of this may or may not tip the scales back to equilibrium. There is a reason she is gravitating towards him: he is giving her something you are not. Plain and simple.

Hope this all works out for you my man. I also hope you dont take the low road and cheat on her preemptively. You dont want that to be the legacy you leave for your kids.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Hiroshima,
Much of the advice here is great if you do break up,but won't help you get back together if that is what you want.....You recognise that things are very serious indeed,so serious that a Breakup is a distinct possibility.In your own interests find out how to protect yourself,you wouldn't be the first Husband to come home and find the locks are changed and you are the subject of some restraining order and will be"sleeping out and far"that night.....Find out where you stand soon....Establish a War Chest in some private bank account,keep sensitive documents at Work,have some emergency plan if things turn nasty....She will justify any coldness towards your Peace offerings as your contrition at the years you have prevented her realising her singing aspirations....I kept a Wife in relative luxury for 23 Years,she even had a Slavey do the more menial housework,I would come home and cook the Tea often at 10 PM....Now my Grown up Children have made me appreciate,that actually,I had kept her in a form of Slavery preventing her development into some effulgent Butterfly emerging from a drudgery bound chrysallis...What a joke this is....And Collossus how could this poor bvugger concentrate on learning a complicated dance like the Tango with all this on his mind?he is not after sensuality,he is trying to stop his World crashing around his ears.

 

[hithard]

Lot of good advice so far.
I see a lot of wives do this. She was (in my opinion) bored of the drudgery of marriage and found herself a hobby that would spice life up. So 2 years ago when she decided singing would get her a life was when the actual problem arose. And you probably were too comfort blinded to see, which is what most men do. Now she has had a 2 year head start on you emotionally - which is also why you are going out of your mind and she is fine. She already has somewhat of a plan in place and has pretty much carried it out. You need to get your head straight fast and not be floundering round.

She has already cheated on you as well, maybe not physical - but emotionally she is all over it.

So what does she see in this guy, well she is pretty much living the fantasy. Single guy that has no responsibilities, has a passion (music), feelings are intensified when playing to a crowd, plus whatever game he brings to the table. While she is trying to run away from her responsibilities, the rut of everyday marriage, being a mom, possibly trying to recapture her youth and excitement.

She may just be getting off on the feeling she is experiencing from the whole situation rather then having any physical contact with the guy (hopefully for you anyway). Reality may set in on the situation for her or she may ditch her old life for the new. Depending on how strongly she has attached her emotions to this whole endeavor.

Now what to do. Well for one thing stop the bitc.hing. You are only reinforcing her idea that you are the dream killer in the relationship. You will only drive her out faster by giving her ultimatums.

Also forget how things were before, because that is how you got here in the first place. Don't expect things to go back to the way they were in a hurry. The main reason being is that you most likely did what guys do and tried to find the quickest way to comfort. Maybe not planned. But you got to the stage where everything was routine, you are more or less existing with no surprises. More or less guys like things running smoothly so they don't have to put to much effort in.
Unfortunately girls like the rollercoaster ride of emotion. You ain't tapping that feeling then they go out looking. She has obviously had enough of that life. But I agree with others about some need not being filled


Suggestion only as I don't know your wife or situation enough:
Could be a dangerous play: but give your wife some space and room to move. No use keeping her caged if she was only going to run off anyway. As hard as it is keep positive - don't whine or biatch about the situation to her, just hold a strong frame and let it unfold.
However throw this into the mix; Every now and then grab her and kiss her passionately to try and hook her emotionally (don't do it too often or be clingy) then go do your workout or anything else to make yourself scarce. Out of the blue tell her your taking her out and do something that will elicit the most emotion out of her (e.g. dancing or something similar she likes). Make your time as scarce with her as reasonably possible, just ensure each interaction is packed full of positive emotional hooks. As a rule of thumb don't try and become a DJ overnight and use half of the DJ advice when you don't know how to apply it. You come out looking juvenile at best. If you do take up working out then try to balance your attitude with the changes in your body. Make sure you are progressing forward in your goals.

So the bog standard advice rings true once again.

Work on yourself; body and clothes to start off with.

Man up, stay positive and no pleading or bitc.hing.

Put money aside for a rainy day only. Don't get it in your head it's a 'leave fund' or you will sub-concisely make the breakup happen.

Flirt with other girls(does not have to lead to anything) when you master the above steps first.

Work out if she is worth the effort.

 

[IronStar]

Like Warrior said, you are in a very real situation with very, very real & far reaching consequences so dont let this be your only source of advice. Just be aware not to completely trust your own thoughts here, your not thinking as clearly as you might be under other circumstances.

My marriage started falling apart over her getting over involved in her career, so I'm kind of biased when I read about situations like yours.

One thing thats not mentioned here is 'mid-life crisis'. I did marriage guidance (on my own), waste of time & money really but he mentioned this to me. Some women do some crazy sh1t when they hit their forties & fifties, screwing over their husband & kids & alientating just about everyone else in the process of chasing some pie-in-the-sky crap that she would have laughed at previously.

You might want to google it.

Childcare not withstanding, start being out late, very late on occasion. Dont chase skirt, go out with your mates or on your own. How she reacts will tell you a lot that you'll never get from asking her or objecting to her behaviour.

Good luck.

 

[backbreaker]

you know... after thinking about this... you need to leave. The problem is, she has now, pushed "that" boundary. The, I can disrespect my man by hanging out with other men to the wee hours of the morning after 15 years of marriage boundary. The I know he can't go anywhere so I can do everythin I want boundary.


Chris rock did this skit, where this woman, was talking **** to a man, and she hit him and she curled up ready to imbrase the beatdown that was going to come.. it never came... and he said "ah ha, I got you not *****"... That's in essesnse, what has happened here. She pushed the evolope. There was a very small window in which you could have fixed the issue, but that has long gone.

Even if hasn't physically slept with him, even if she has talked herself into being "a good wife" now... he's primed her up for the next guy, the guy at the office who they have to discuss business with, whatever. I just don't see this ending well.

But, then you have the legality of it all lol, you can't **** another woman and get caught becuase then, even though she started it you would be the one getting hosed.


I would make it a habit to start developing a life outside of her. not necessarily cheating, just a life.

 

[grayclif]

I went to bed thinking about this post last night and thought maybe this is an out for Hiro. As Scara suggested the OP needs to start putting assets aside as well as seek legal counsel.

But her dream of seeking a new career singing duet's with this new fellow seems awfully hair-brained and most likely will fail when reality sets in. If Hiro has proof that she is cheating (video or pictures) he could kick her out of the house and change the locks. Not sure of the laws in where he lives but I have seen this happen here. A male friend of mine did this and he got to keep their very nice home and shared custody of the kid.

 

[drak_ool]

Heroshima-

I wanted to share with you what happened to an older friend of mine. Married for 15 years, 3 kids, gorgeous wife (about 10 years younger), extremly well-respected professional internationally, huge mansion, cars, posh golf club memberships, etc...

the problems with him started because he was too busy at work, taking too many business trips and the wife was getting lonely at home, as well as getting older. When her mid-life crisis hit, it hit hard. They almost got divorced over her bytching, but he somehow managed to patch things up. One of the things he did was to start paying for his wife's golf lessons so she could pick up a hobby (sounds familiar?). Next thing you know, she ran off with her golf instructor, leaving in her wake 3 young children, a suicidal husband and a wrecked home.

The problem with him was that he alternated b/w the ostrich strategy (pretending nothing was wrong, not curbing his business trips) and being the extremely nice guy (never saying no to his wife, listening to all of her whims). And this is how she repaid him...

Seems like you are already way ahead of him, so props. But you should really think back about the circumstances around your marriage BEFORE she starting taking singing lessons. Her singing "career" is just a symptom. You need to realize there were issues in your relationship before that.

Follow all the advice here but remember that she's not cheating until you catch her red-handed. Btw, my friend did that by hiring a private investigator who revealed all of her little games. So if you have a really strong suspicion, that is always a possibility.

 

[zekko]

About 2 years ago she got into singing and 5 months ago she started playing with a male, single guitarist. She got really into singing with him and it has put a lot of stress on our relationship. She's been getting home late, spending a lot of time with him and texting/emailing/phoning him a lot.

Honestly, I doubt if I would put up with this either. However. let me just say this:
I've had some experience playing in bands on and off over the years. And if she really wants to be a singer, it's pretty much unavoidable that she will be playing with male musicians, having some contact with them during off hours, and putting in late hours. She will also most likely be spending a fair amount of time in bars.

If you do decide that you are willing to accept her doing this, I like a lot of the other suggestions here that will at least make you feel better about yourself.

 

[Mr.Positive]

I think what bothers me about the OP's situation, is that he's taking a reactive approach. If there's a problem, men fix it. Take a proactive approach.

This is your wife of 17 years. It's never too late to man up.

Sit her down and lay out your boundaries. Be calm, cool, and show now emotions. Don't under any circumstance let her lead the conversation. Remain calm and in control. Be firm and disappointed in her behavior. This needs to be communicated to her in a direct manner.

Then guide this woman into the bedroom and rattle her world. Lead her to mind blowing sex, then send her out to sleep on the couch for the night to think about things.

After that, adopt a don't give a sh!t, don't put up with sh!t attitude.

Oh, and protect your assets too..like other's posted.

 

[jophil28]

How would a man handle this situation 100 years ago?

Truth is, back in the day, her need for "self realization" probably would never have evolved into a situation which placed her marriage on a war alert.

This story is a timely reminder of two things
Firstly, how modern women now believe that they can "have it all" , when they want it , and just because they want it.
They have been brainwashed into believing that their wishes and personal desire trump their marriage vows and obligations to their husbands.
The feminist agenda is working nicely through promotion by seemingly moderate agents like Oprah .
If marriage is destroyed in this process then all the better.
After all women need to be freed from their 'oppressors' .

Secondly, men need to take a long hard look at the way that they have reacted to women's behavior in the past two generations.
EVERY man I know is AFRAID of upsetting women. Men are living their daily lives walking on eggshells in case they offend the next goddess. IF you observe how women speak and act, it is clear that they (understandably ) have come to believe that they can say whatever they want and do what ever appeals to them , but men have no such freedom.

Ths situation was not forced on us men by law, it was self imposed.
No agency forced men to be compliant limpd!cks.
WE did it to ourselves because a) we meeking submitted to the first waves of feminist challenges, and b) we feared that our supply of pvssy was likely to be cut off if we didn't.

Sad situation.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Hiroshima,
Some very good advice has surfaced I like Hithards observations and advice,also Drakools,very profound for such a young guy....So certainly protect yourself,be aware of your options....Field Marshall Montgomery was a cagey old bird,his motto was,know your Enemy,in his little Caravan HQ he kept a photo of Erwin Rommel used to look at it every morning and ask himself just what the wily old Desert Fox was thinking that day...Hiroshima Do you know your Enemy?what sort of Guy is he?....We have all jumped to the conclusion that he is some young irresponsible lay about but he might equally be an older quite responsible talented Gent....If he is the former then we have one of us,a DJ indeed,she is just another Plate to him,could be crossing his Palm with Silver,if not the odd Casserole,Resteurant bill....Such Men value their independence.If push comes to shove,would he really want some Woman under his feet,interfering with his other nocturnal activities,and then the Kids?there's a pretty picture,helping them with their homework is probably not in his repertoire....Maybe a Private Eye would be worth the money....Assuming we have the other alternative,things could well be above board and relatively innocent,I have had Women tell me their Marriage was in tatters and they were separated but living under the same roof,only to subsequently find out that things were nothing like that.....Bringing things out in the open will not damage your position any further,could well scare these guys out of their wits....Remember when Montgomery did make a stand against Rommel it was on a Field of his choosing and on his terms...So in closing,dont forget to stay on the right side of the Kids and if feasible your Mother in Law,she would think it very thoughtful of you to pop over with the kids.

 

[heroshima]

Thanks for all the posts. I really appreciate the feedback and suggestions.

For now:
Drastic change in my behavior - got it
Stop talking about it and b1tching - excellent advice, doing that
Work out - already have been and will do more
Get new clothes - good plan, I need some new shoes too
Develop a life outside the home - will do, I need to look up some old friends anyway

I would like to give more information to you guys but I'm posting from my phone. I'll post more when I sit in front of my computer.

 

[Boilermaker]

I feel a deep satisfaction when I see stories like this. I see the awakening in you heroshima.

If you are going through hell, keep going

(Churchill)

 

[heroshima]

I feel a deep satisfaction when I see stories like this. I see the awakening in you heroshima.

If you are going through hell, keep going

(Churchill)

Thanks a lot man.

Push through and don't worry about getting burned. I like it.

 

[Kailex]

How would a man handle this situation 100 years ago?

Truth is, back in the day, her need for "self realization" probably would never have evolved into a situation which placed her marriage on a war alert.

You answered the question for me.

This situation probably would have been a rarity 100 years ago.
An outlier floating deep in space, far away from the nucleus of women whose idea of "self realization" was having the ultimate kitchen.

 

[zekko]

We have all jumped to the conclusion that he is some young irresponsible lay about but he might equally be an older quite responsible talented Gent....

It's possible the guy is just a guitarist who is excited about his current muscial project with this female singer. But again, I doubt that I would be very happy about this arrangement either.

I always feel that if a woman has a male friend that she is close to, a man should have a female friend just as close, or this creates an uneven playing field, where the female appears to be more valuable. Look at the story Backbreaker told about his fiance having a male friend so he picked up a female friend, and that led to them both dropping their hanger-ons without any discussion even being needed. I don't think it's appropriate for married people to have close friends of the opposite sex though.