Prize Mentality vs. Genuinely Being a Prize

[RedPill]

One of the basic weaknesses that characterize the AFC mindset, which I think most of us can agree upon, is lacking an understanding of human behavioral dynamics (including but not limited to sexual dynamics), and thus a lack of awareness in social situations. A core theme on this forum is to observe and seek to understand how people think and behave in reality, versus all the fantasy and feminine social conventions that have proliferated throughout the 20th century.

It would make sense then, that many threads here focus on teaching the recently unplugged individual to craft a stronger psychological frame of reference for themselves - where they internalize a stronger, more masculine image of their self, and start projecting the attractive quality of being in demand. In short, carrying the Prize Mentality.

While it certainly tilts the game in one's favor to adopt a posture of self-worth that projects confidence and market value, one can only get so far on bullsh1t and creating the illusion of value. How many issues that get discussed in threads here are nothing more than variations on the theme of the consequences when Mr. Market weeds out the overvalued party in a sexual relationship? The first discussions that come to mind are the ones on looks, resources, and every thread where someone is upset because a woman decided to explore her other options.

It's only when the tide goes out that you learn who's been swimming naked. - W. Buffet

It might be fun for the bar scene or while traveling to bust out the PUA bag o' tricks and spike female interest for an evening, but shouldn't we, as evolving men who choose to live life unplugged from illusions, strive for a higher standard for ourselves? There's more to having genuine value as a man beyond employing smart marketing to stimulate women's interest initially.

What do you guys think make a man genuinely valuable to women? What do we as men offer to the marketplace of women that make us a genuinely valuable prize to be sought over, versus an interchangeable commodity with muscles, a wallet, and a working cסck? Are our capacities to provide masculinity, security, and emotional stimulation truly the differentiating factors for us? I'd be curious to learn what you guys think make a man the genuine article.

 

[drmeathead]

in a sense, what is the difference between renting a nice car and owning one?

 

[Colossus]

A lot of talk about this 'real man ' stuff.

Off the top of my head, a few things:

Establishment.

Both internal, as in establishment of beliefs, values, non-negotiables, and self-worth; and external, as in career establishment, property, financial management, and others. Establishment is a product of work ethic and often risk.

Character

This doesnt need much of an explaination. Experiences build character, and a man's character is a window to how he has handled adversity.

Risk.

The willingness to take a calculated risk, even if it could mean losing the pot in certain situations. I dont mean stupid risks, but a man who isnt willing to lay it all on the line when it matters is afraid.

Poise.

Keeping your composure. Not getting unecessarily emotional or allowing misdirected emotion to ruin a situation. Often a man of poise is the only glue keeping a ship together.

Resilience.

The ability to bounce back, adapt, and take a hit. Especially with women.

Originality.

I think most esteemed men march to their own drummer. There is something that curiously differentiates him from the general man in terms of his 'life rhythm'. They are often misunderstood, but there is that distinct quality of hearing your own tune and not straying from it.

Wildness.

All true men, MEN'S MEN if you will, have a tangible wild aspect to their own heart and passions, and it is repressed throughout our lives. I dont mean recklessness, that is sort of misdirected wildness, but there is that unpredictable raw power that separates a domesticated man from a man true to his own heart.

----------------------------
Granted these qualities would (or should) attract a woman of proportional integrity. People tend to smell their own, a wise man once told me.

That is not a complete list by any means, but it's what comes to my mind when I think of the men I have known who are the genuine article, and qualities I work to build in myself. Whenever this topic comes up, I always go back to my belief that the essence of a Man is his STRENGTH. Know it, live it.

Its hard to define this in succinct, universal terms because everyone has a different idea of what separates the 'genuine article' from just a functional male. Women think they they know what a real man is, yet they cant define it. In truth, they FEEL a Man when he is there.

While there is some commonality in the terms of definition, they are all ultimately subjective to a myriad of factors. People usually know one when they see one, just as a true Man knows himself.

 

[RedPill]

Thanks for the reply Colossus, great stuff.

My intent with this thread was not to duplicate other similar discussions, but rather move the value discussion away from commoditizing factors (looks, money, etc) and toward the unique and intangible factors that create intrinsic value, placing a man in genuine demand.

 

[RedPill]

in a sense, what is the difference between renting a nice car and owning one?

When you own it, it doesn't have to be returned to the rental company. It stays in your possession because it's yours. Passengers will treat it with greater respect, and the cost per ride is far less than a rental.

 

[TheLadiesMan]

Very good read.

You know, I don't have much in this world. I don't have a lot of money (got a kid, he has all the money), I don't own a nice car (used too, now I drive a family van. ) I don't have a great job (used too, till "new" boss fired me, and now he's fired, hahaha! ) ..pretty much starting from bottom since divorce in 2002.

...but the two things I've always had was my confidence, and my honesty. Those two traits have gotten me through hella lot when I didn't have ANY money, or a car, or a home, or even a freakn job!!! I think it was my lack of confidence that caused my demise. From 12 year marriage to living in my car. LOL! ..but I grow more and more confident everyday, and I start to see things more clearer. Dating a model on a warehouse income is great... dumping her because you can, IS NOT!! ..I said I SEE things more CLEARER NOW.

Ok, not sure if this makes too much sense but.... If you are, at the very least, honest to yourself, and who you are, things just fall into place easier. You like yourself, others like you cuz you like yourself, etc, etc.... goes into some deep sh*t, but it's real talk.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Ahh, finally, a thread worth responding to.

We can define the characteristics that make a Man positively masculine - and COLOSUS did an admirable job of this - but all of these traits and attributes come to a Man at a price. More often than not this involves sacrifice, effort, perseverance, etc. In fact every characteristic COLOSUS described above is a direct result from paying one's dues. To have character requires failing (a lot). To become established requires perseverance and dedication to ones real passions, and often, discovering those passions is a price to pay unto itself. Learning to temper risk and wildness with rationality causes more than it's share of problems, both from being too reckless as well as being too reserved.

All of the characteristics that make a mature, healthy Man attractive and valuable to a woman are bought with experience, failure, success, bruises and getting back after it when learning a hard lesson. This is what makes men Men. It's the subconscious recognition and appreciation of the effort it takes for a Man to achieve inspite of a world of adversity in every realm of life that makes him a Man women will want to be associated with. If women are sex objects, men are success objects. It's precisely this achievement that they naturally want an association with. Women love a man with a good body from a sexual standpoint to be sure, but it's the unconscious appreciation of the work and discipline that went into developing it that is really appealing. This applies to every aspect of what makes a Man valuable.

As I've said many times before, a woman should only ever be a compliment to a Man's life, NEVER the focus of it. If you've spent any amount of time reading this forum you'll know the common perception that for the last 30-40 years men have lost sight of this fact. Some will blame it on a culture of post-modern feminism, but it's really men who bear the bulk of the responsibility. It's men who've put the importance on identifying themselves with the random wants of women in order to secure a constant supply of sexuality who've sold themselves out and compromised developing their own identities. It's the men (AFCs) who've made a point of pride out of wearing their emotionality on their sleeves and crying on demand who've blurred the image of the masculine - leaving women in this era to wonder "where have all the cowboys gone?"

And why should this be? Because women are experiencing fewer and fewer Men with the capacity to be dedicated to themselves in order to possess the qualities COLOSUS listed for us. The AFC exhausts his effort on trying to appease women, buy women, negotiate with women and then at 35 wonders why he hasn't had more "success" with women. In fact "success" for him becomes synonymous with women. Conversely he may opt to change himself into a PUA and memorize the scripts and techniques, only to fall right back into his AFC mindset once he's secured an LTR with "the girl he's always wanted" and again wonders why she leaves him for another guy who wouldn't compromise his identity to accommodate her. That's not to say that PUA skills are useless - they're valuable tools and a means to an end, but ultimately it's the Man who defines what that end is. And really what are PUA tools? They are techniques meant to compensate for lacking the out-ward manifestations of the qualities women find valuable in a man.

It's the men who'll limit themselves from a desire to secure that supply of pussie that retard their maturity and limit their capacity to attain the traits that would ultimately make them more valuable. It's the guys who marry at 19, the guys who marry the single mother, the guys who marry the older woman, the guys who convince themselves that compromising their education and career choices to accommodate a GF is really their best choice, the guys willing to tolerate an endless string of sh!t tests; these are the lesser men who've limited their own capacity to embody the very traits that they need to maintain the LTR/Marriage they desire. SoSuave exists because of these men.

 

[Colossus]

...The AFC exhausts his effort on trying to appease women, buy women, negotiate with women and then at 35 wonders why he hasn't had more "success" with women. In fact "success" for him becomes synonymous with women. Conversely he may opt to change himself into a PUA and memorize the scripts and techniques, only to fall right back into his AFC mindset once he's secured an LTR with "the girl he's always wanted" and again wonders why she leaves him for another guy who wouldn't compromise his identity to accommodate her. That's not to say that PUA skills are useless - they're valuable tools and a means to an end, but ultimately it's the Man who defines what that end is. And really what are PUA tools? They are techniques meant to compensate for lacking the out-ward manifestations of the qualities women find valuable in a man.

It's the men who'll limit themselves from a desire to secure that supply of pussie that retard their maturity and limit their capacity to attain the traits that would ultimately make them more valuable. It's the guys who marry at 19, the guys who marry the single mother, the guys who marry the older woman, the guys who convince themselves that compromising their education and career choices to accommodate a GF is really their best choice, the guys willing to tolerate an endless string of sh!t tests; these are the lesser men who've limited their own capacity to embody the very traits that they need to maintain the LTR/Marriage they desire. SoSuave exists because of these men.

The above bold and underlined sentences are really what I believe to be at the heart of the AFC. Especially the first one.

For reasons we could write a book on, men are conditioned and cajoled at the earliest age to subvert their own identity and masculinity to secure pu$sy, and to secure the affections of a woman. As if THAT is their highest calling in life.

Compromising career and education to accomodate a gf?!? As developing Men of character we can see how inane this thinking is. But at some point many of us would have done it, myself included. I thank the dear Lord I didnt.

I had to learn a lot of valuable Man-lessons through pain and reflection.

I have goals I must fulfill. To become a doctor. To excel in my field. To be a man of science and a man of principle. To never stop exploring God's green earth. There are still seven mountains on each continent that are higher than any other, and they need climbing.

Dont EVER compromise yourself to please, attain the affection of, or accomodate a woman. You will be weaker becasue of it, and she will resent you for it because you didnt have the GUTS to stand firm and draw the line, regardless of the consequences.

Anyways, enough forum posting, Im going to the gym.

*EDIT*- After rereading my post i decided to take my story out because i felt it didnt lend much to the theme of the OP. Some stories are just too complex to be told succinctly. But the thesis remains the same.

 

[squirrels]

As long as you believe your value is just an illusion, it will be.

If you believe that your value will be washed away when she REALLY gets to know you, chances are that you're right.

I'm not asking you to kid yourself into believing in worth that isn't there. That's impossible for any rational human being. But you're worth a lot more than you let on.

The question I'M asking is...what will it take for YOU to believe in YOURSELF?

Do THAT, whatever it happens to be.

 

[Latinoman]

in a sense, what is the difference between renting a nice car and owning one?

Cars are bad example as cars depreciate with time.

A better example is: what’s the difference between renting an apartment and OWNING a house.

That’s a HUGE difference.

You have less control over the apartment and you don’t collect the long term benefits either.

 

[Interceptor]

great stuff.

Emotional Strength is the integarl part of all the above.
This is the single most important Resource a woman conscioulsy or subconsciously desires.

And the foundation for Men to build upon.

This is your true Gold.


Confidence comes from observing oneself in experience. And especially, doing satisfactorily in it.
Self Esteem thrives and increases in these environments.

The confidence and self esteem only make you more resilient to emotional traumas and difficulties in life.

It is your true wealth.

All this brings you the peace of mind, clarity, reflection, and decision making skill you need to bring out your maximum potential.


Real Men are "the Rocks" of Life.

Masculine men are UNREACTIVE.
(do not confuse this with being UN RESPONSIVE)

They RESPOND and DO COURAGE.

They TAKE ACTION.

And are NEVER overly swayed by emotions.

This Emotional Strength is the fuel that lets you endure the trials and tribulations, AND gives you that unwavering TENACITY to go after your Goals in Life.

Self Discipline.
Self Reflection.
Self Esteem
Self Realization

All are the basis for actualizing your Prize ness.

 

[skeeloo]

i dont even think there's a real defination of what a man is these days, maybe in the past, maybe 2 thousand years ago during jesus's era. in modren terms what we view as a man, just aint cutting it with these women. its either you compromise your view and follow the crowd, or you stand on your grounds and in some cases suffer?,
yes suffer ,... most men are scared of suffering or being left behinde. thats also a problem.

whats a man? is it going to the gym to gain that body? to me working towards a great body is conforming to the norm of what women expect, their are those who do it to keep fit, these guys usually dont go that often to the gym, then there's your everyday gym addict.

and ill slap you if you say they aint doing it for the women, because frankly? they are..you cant guve advice about standing your own ground and not caring what women think ,if your a gym junkie..your are doing it for women. it brings vanity..which in turn brings relying on womens approval.. which takes you back to afc mode unknowly..yes maybe a different kinda afc mode -but all the same attention seeking behaviour.

what man is gonna be happy..after going to the gym and yet he see's no result from the women staring at him? dont lie to your selves.

i think a man comes to his own when he realises, hey i dont need to bulk -up to prove im a man?id give the army as a way of showing masculinity.. groom your self but only for health reason, if you dont shave you'll cause lice and ticks to come on your body and ****, washe your face and cut your nails, do it for hygeine reasons . most men think going to the gym is the epitome of masuclinity..yes it is on the physical side .. but not internally. or maybe ..just maybe does the improvement of the physical body,improve the mental state as well? does buking up make you the real man youv've alwasy wanted to be? id like someone to tell me?..
.i know bulking up made me happy but i was contsantly seeking looks from women and respect from men, which i got but it was like a high i wanted more. im lean now but mayb ill bulk up sometime in the future again.

but i went through hard time and those hard times made me realise that even if i did bulk-up again i couldnt care less what women think. your suffering will build your real character. being a real man as we all here want to be isnt a choice..its a destiny..your either have it or you wont, you either have the real experience or you dont..and it has nothing to do with getting ass, any punk can get ass by buying renting an expensive car or jewery. or compromise,being treted like a chump..which we call **** tests. to get laid. it aint hard to get laid.....if you really think about it.

you cant fake life experiences. i do agree emotional strenght is the best and most important aspect of being a man.. but we all arnt robot's we feel pain and we'll all get a little jealous if some other guy gets all the attention, beacuse we'll start questioning or masculinty and asking why.

it's rear you find a man that nothing really fazes. your goals shold be getting to that point were nothing bother's you that much, but is that possible?,,like i said you cant fake it.. you either got the experience to handle it or not.

 

[Maxtro]

So how does one become a man?

 

[Vulpine]

Its hard to define this in succinct, universal terms because everyone has a different idea of what separates the 'genuine article' from just a functional male. Women think they they know what a real man is, yet they cant define it. In truth, they FEEL a Man when he is there.

While there is some commonality in the terms of definition, they are all ultimately subjective to a myriad of factors. People usually know one when they see one, just as a true Man knows himself.

Bump, diddy, Bump, diddy-diddy, Bump-Bump.

Never mind the qualities of women, how about the qualities of ourselves? Lots of gold in one small thread.

 

[zekko]

value makes you a target for gold diggers, nothing more.

Value doesn't necessarily mean money though, certainly not when we're talking about sexual market value. It might mean looks, strength, having a lot of friends, being good at fixing a car, anything.

If you believe that your value will be washed away when she REALLY gets to know you, chances are that you're right.

I'm not asking you to kid yourself into believing in worth that isn't there. That's impossible for any rational human being. But you're worth a lot more than you let on.

You make a good point, but let me jump off from there.

Someone here recently posted "However you see yourself, that's how she will see you". That has kind of bugged me ever since I read it, because it seems like magical thinking. People will see you however they want. How you see yourself is certainly one factor, but it's not the whole boat. It's important to believe in yourself, but some people think that is all that is necessary. But as the OP says, there's a difference between having the mentality, and being the genuine article.

 

[jimjam]

Ahh, finally, a thread worth responding to.

We can define the characteristics that make a Man positively masculine - and COLOSUS did an admirable job of this - but all of these traits and attributes come to a Man at a price. More often than not this involves sacrifice, effort, perseverance, etc. In fact every characteristic COLOSUS described above is a direct result from paying one's dues. To have character requires failing (a lot). To become established requires perseverance and dedication to ones real passions, and often, discovering those passions is a price to pay unto itself. Learning to temper risk and wildness with rationality causes more than it's share of problems, both from being too reckless as well as being too reserved.

All of the characteristics that make a mature, healthy Man attractive and valuable to a woman are bought with experience, failure, success, bruises and getting back after it when learning a hard lesson. This is what makes men Men. It's the subconscious recognition and appreciation of the effort it takes for a Man to achieve inspite of a world of adversity in every realm of life that makes him a Man women will want to be associated with. If women are sex objects, men are success objects. It's precisely this achievement that they naturally want an association with. Women love a man with a good body from a sexual standpoint to be sure, but it's the unconscious appreciation of the work and discipline that went into developing it that is really appealing. This applies to every aspect of what makes a Man valuable.

As I've said many times before, a woman should only ever be a compliment to a Man's life, NEVER the focus of it. If you've spent any amount of time reading this forum you'll know the common perception that for the last 30-40 years men have lost sight of this fact. Some will blame it on a culture of post-modern feminism, but it's really men who bear the bulk of the responsibility. It's men who've put the importance on identifying themselves with the random wants of women in order to secure a constant supply of sexuality who've sold themselves out and compromised developing their own identities. It's the men (AFCs) who've made a point of pride out of wearing their emotionality on their sleeves and crying on demand who've blurred the image of the masculine - leaving women in this era to wonder "where have all the cowboys gone?"

And why should this be? Because women are experiencing fewer and fewer Men with the capacity to be dedicated to themselves in order to possess the qualities COLOSUS listed for us. The AFC exhausts his effort on trying to appease women, buy women, negotiate with women and then at 35 wonders why he hasn't had more "success" with women. In fact "success" for him becomes synonymous with women. Conversely he may opt to change himself into a PUA and memorize the scripts and techniques, only to fall right back into his AFC mindset once he's secured an LTR with "the girl he's always wanted" and again wonders why she leaves him for another guy who wouldn't compromise his identity to accommodate her. That's not to say that PUA skills are useless - they're valuable tools and a means to an end, but ultimately it's the Man who defines what that end is. And really what are PUA tools? They are techniques meant to compensate for lacking the out-ward manifestations of the qualities women find valuable in a man.

It's the men who'll limit themselves from a desire to secure that supply of pussie that retard their maturity and limit their capacity to attain the traits that would ultimately make them more valuable. It's the guys who marry at 19, the guys who marry the single mother, the guys who marry the older woman, the guys who convince themselves that compromising their education and career choices to accommodate a GF is really their best choice, the guys willing to tolerate an endless string of sh!t tests; these are the lesser men who've limited their own capacity to embody the very traits that they need to maintain the LTR/Marriage they desire. SoSuave exists because of these men.

This reminded me of something by Bukowski:

“If you're going to try, go all the way. Otherwise, don't even start. This could mean losing girlfriends, wives, relatives and maybe even your mind. It could mean not eating for three or four days. It could mean freezing on a park bench. It could mean jail. It could mean derision. It could mean mockery--isolation. Isolation is the gift. All the others are a test of your endurance, of how much you really want to do it. And, you'll do it, despite rejection and the worst odds. And it will be better than anything else you can imagine. If you're going to try, go all the way. There is no other feeling like that. You will be alone with the gods, and the nights will flame with fire. You will ride life straight to perfect laughter. It's the only good fight there is.”

In other words, above all, be true to oneself...no matter what

 

[Vulpine]

...but shouldn't we, as evolving men who choose to live life unplugged from illusions, strive for a higher standard for ourselves?

A timely question going into the new year.