Pressure to Take the Next Step

[Sting]

For the past two years I’ve been dating a high-quality (now 28 year old) woman who has many of the things I’ve looked for in a long-term relationship. Presently, however, I’ve been on the receiving end of mounting pressure to take our relationship to the next level. In other words, to either get engaged or, at least move in together.

While I appreciate the “advice” I’m receiving from: (a) her friends, (b) my boss(es) (who have met her), and (c) my family, I can’t seem to convince any of them that its MY decision whether I want to either get engaged or ask my girlfriend to move in with me. In response, I’ve told them that she’s meeting my parents this coming November, but that seems to intensify the “advice” I'm receiving.

Among the comments I get are:

“You’re going to be 33, and she’s 28, so at your age 2 years is a long time to be just dating.”

“You need to give her some tangible sense of where things are going, because otherwise you’re not being fair to her.”

“She’s a great girl, and you need to do something before she gets away.”

“Why don’t you ask her to move in with you? You can afford it.”

“She’ll help you professionally. I guaranty that if you get engaged, your bosses will take it as a sign of maturity and promote you.”

On the issue of moving in, I don’t want her to move in with me yet – I like my privacy and my space. When the recent hurricane hit the East Coast of the U.S., she stayed at my place for a week because I had constant power, water, phone and Internet access. After that one week, I was more than ready for her to leave. She would constantly want my attention, cuddle all the time, be affectionate, etc… Likewise, she’s demonstrated over the past two years that she’s not a very tidy person. For example, she’ll leave her hair all over the bathroom, dishes on the coffee and dining room tables, water glasses everywhere, etc… When confronted, she always says “I was going to clean that up…” My response? “So why didn’t you?” She then changes the subject or goes in the other room to do something else. If she acts this way now – as a guest in my home – I can only imagine how things will be when we move in together and it becomes “our” home. She’ll probably take over and I’ll be relegated to a corner of the bedroom with my dirty underwear and socks.

On the issue of getting engaged, and in addition to the above-discussed annoying habits she has, I’m not sure she’s emotionally and psychologically mature enough to handle it. Marriage isn’t about planning the wedding. From what I’ve learned from divorced people, marriage is about being each other’s best friends (soul mates if you will) and being closer to each other than anyone else in your life. Marriage requires that you be there for each other through the good times and the bad times, and it’s the latter that tests your resolve. It’s not to be entered in to lightly, and certainly not something you do because other people expect you to do it.

Despite all of this accumulated wisdom that I have regarding moving in with a woman and getting married, am I being overly-cautious or unrealistic?

 

[The Business Man]

The people who will tell you to "make the move" --when you aren't ready-- are the same sick b@stards who enjoy reality TV shows. You should make that decision when YOU are ready, and when you think she is ready too.

I think more of us should be as cautious as you, and you deserve respect for that.

 

[Sting]

Originally posted by The Business Man
The people who will tell you to "make the move" --when you aren't ready-- are the same sick b@stards who enjoy reality TV shows. You should make that decision when YOU are ready, and when you think she is ready too.

I think more of us should be as cautious as you, and you deserve respect for that.

That's exactly what a very good friend of mine told me yesterday. He's a few years older and one of the divorced people I mentioned in my original post. In fact, he explained that if he had been as cautious as I am right now, he wouldn't have gotten married and ruined himself financially by getting married. In his case, the same people were giving him the same "advice" I've been receiving.

As for the people who have been giving me advice, I'd peg them more like they guys who watch football and question the play or the player's performance. They're not in my shoes, so they can't understand how I feel. When I try to explain this to them, they respond with something along the lines of having a "detached perspective," and therefore they can see things more clearly than I can.

 

[Sting]

I'm not one to bump my own posts, but I don't want my original post to get buried past the first page without receiving some additional replies.

 

[NewMan]

the same situation.

I was in a very simular situation.

I had been with my girl for 4 yrs. I moved in with her after 2.5 yrs. I'm 32 she's now 30.

I was getting lots of pressure from Her family and in the end her (even though she told me she would never want to pressure me she did). In the last year, 2 of her best friends got married and her younger sister engaged - so the pressure mounted.

The advice I can give you is the following;

When it comes to a decidion like marrage - only YOU can tell if your ready and able or not.

It's my belief that if you are not 100% into this (and your not) then don't do it. It's to big of a commitment and decision to make - especially if your not 100% behind it. You can always find another woman, but the financial ruin that could ensue from a divorce - or even Child Support if you have kids, will ruin your future for sure.

I'm even going to go further. You should probably walk away from this girl. Several reasons.

1) Your already feeling pressure - that only going to increase in
the future.
2) She wants to get married - let her go to find someone (AFC) who will fit her profile and be easily pressured into these things - thats not you.
3) Let's be honest. Your probably never going to marry her. If your not yet married - or not wanting to, then chances are that will not change.
4) You've told us there are lots of things you don't like about her. Listen, for every 10 things you like about her, there will be 10 things you don't. The question is, can you live and except these 10 things you don't like? It sounds like you can't - and you don't want to marry someone or live with someone where the smallest things (not being tidy) are cause for concern. You need to be compatible.
5) and this is most improtant.

I don’t want her to move in with me yet – I like my privacy and my space.

You've just answered your own question. You don't want to live with her, so how can you even contemplate getting married?


Bottom line. It sounds liek the pressure that been applied is actually getting to you. Your thinking about it. That not good. You shouldn't have to think about it and ask people advice - you should KNOW.

I recomend you do both her and yourself a favor. Move on. You can find someone more compatible, she can find someone to marry.

In 6 months time, perhaps you'll be in a different place - her to.

 

[princelydeeds]

Man people only get worse over time. I have a double standard when it comes to women. I m not the tidiest person on earth, but there is no excuse when it comes to a woman. i think It should irritate a woman to live in a dirty house. Call me old fashioned but no woman should live like that. I will bone a chick with a dirty house but i will never be in a relationship with one. I guarantee she will only get worse over time. The things that annoy you now will only get worse and annoy you even more in the future.

Its obvious you like her, but it seems like you feel shes the best thing you have for now. You are probably feeling like there is something more or something better out there for you. No one is perfect, but from reading your post it sounds like you feel you would be settling if you took it to the next level with this chick. Do not allow peopel to make you feel bad or ashamed for not wanting to settle down. I can only think of 1 or 2 guys who have the type of relationship i would want. I can think of dozens more who I would never in a million years ever want the kind of relationship they've got.

You are a DJ you can have almost any chick you want. Why settle? Don't let anyone pressure you into doing something you're not ready to do. If you lose her oh well, it wasn't meant to be. There will be better women in the future.

 

[squirrels]

http://www.nomarriage.com

Do you ever wonder why the divorce rate is so high in modern countries? Because society CONTINUALLY forces people into marriages that just aren't going to work. People get married because of pressure from the family, or pressure from friends, or pressure from the woman herself. ALL based on the social stigma that "there's something wrong with you" if you're not married by a certain age. The "American Dream" is a house, a wife, 2.3 kids, a dog, and an SUV, and we're all supposed to adopt that dream and then search desperately for someone to fulfill it.

F**k what they think. If you're not ready to marry/move in with this girl, then DON'T. You only have one life on this Earth...don't commit to a decision that's just going to bring you stress and misery.

When you ARE ready to marry someone, it'll be the most natural thing in the world. You'll think to yourself, "I could have all of these other women, and I'm sure that any of them has wonderful qualities, but I just don't WANT to have them. Why WOULD I when this woman provides me with everything I want?" And when you get married, nothing really changes except your legal status...you would've spent your entire lives enjoying life together anyway.

Don't rush marriage based on what everyone else thinks. They don't know you. They can't tell you who you are. And they have no right to approve/disapprove of how you feel and think. If you listen to them instead of yourself, you'll become another statistic.

 

[princelydeeds]

If you are looking for someone to give half your money, the house and everything else you've worked hard to acquire, Leave me a PM. I'll give you my name and address and you can start mailing me half your money.

Your relationship is already in trouble. Why make it worse by getting deeper involved.

 

[DJ_Dork]

Originally posted by The Business Man
The people who will tell you to "make the move" --when you aren't ready-- are the same sick b@stards who enjoy reality TV shows. You should make that decision when YOU are ready, and when you think she is ready too.

I think more of us should be as cautious as you, and you deserve respect for that.

I agree with this statement, however.. pressure will give in.. WATCH FOR THE PRESSURE.. don't give into threats.. but DO make comprises that the both of you are willing to give. If their parents/your parents/or even her make threats about seperation. Your attitude in regards to "marriage, being there blah blah blah" - I don't understand.. hmm you've been with her for "2" years dude - you should know by now if she's the type that will look out for ya.

 

[Sting]

Thanks for the advice guys, I knew there were some people on this board who have gone/are going through what I am right now. In responding to the advice each of you has given, perhaps I can clarify things a bit more:

NewMan: I agree with you that it’s my decision (or rather hers and mine – she has the right to say no if I pop the question). It’s nobody else’s business what we decide to do. However, the reality is that friends and family will attempt to influence the decision (towards marriage, of course), because that’s what THEY would like to see.

As for pressure, it’s coming primarily from her friends, and then to a lesser degree from my family and colleagues at work. For now, the pressure isn’t coming from her directly, although she has, at various times, asked in not so many words “where are we going?” That’s a fair question, and I gave her a fair answer. She seems relatively satisfied with my answer, but her friends aren’t. Naturally, they have a tendency to plant thoughts in her head, and she doesn’t seem to have the fortitude to tell them to “butt out” of her business. On the other hand, she has asked me if her friends have been putting pressure on me, and has intimated that she doesn’t approve of such pressure (that’s all well and good, but if she would ACT on her feeling, that would relieve the pressure).

She isn’t pressuring me to get married, so it’s not a question of her desiring the white wedding, princess for a day, etc… As for getting married, I can see it happening – some day. She has some growing up to do, and she appears to have learned some maturity and judgment from dating me (I’m a lawyer, so I think things through rather thoroughly).

As for her annoying habits, I think she’s at least entitled to an opportunity to change. I have “trained” her in the past to do certain things, so perhaps another discussion is appropriate. Nobody knows that the things they do annoy actually other people until somebody says something. If she changes, then living together wouldn’t be an unacceptable proposition.

As for moving on, I’ve been tempted at various times. But that would seem to be wrong way to react to things that can be changed. Nobody’s perfect, and it takes time for people to adapt to each other in a relationship. Now, if she doesn’t continue to mature or change her annoying habits after I’ve spoken with her, then walking away is the answer. Frankly, I think it’s too soon to resort to such a definitive step at present.

Princelydeeds: I agree with your statement to a degree. She is the best thing I have going “right now.” There may be someone else out there who is better for me – I don’t know. But does it make sense to throw away a 2 year relationship on the off-chance I might find something better? Additionally, I’m at a point in my career where work is requiring more and more of my time (I'm trying to make partner), so time to “hunt” is scarce. I’m more inclined to stick things out, but keep them going the way they are. If I lose her because I refuse to take the “next step” until I’m ready, then so be it. At least I will have been true to myself.

Squirrels: I agree. There isn’t much that other women can offer me that I don’t already have. The only things I’d like to have that she doesn’t have are: (a) a couple of more inches in height; (b) equal intellectual firepower to my own (hard to do, I know ;-)); (c) and more rational thought on her part.

As for rushing into marriage, see my above responses. I don’t want to become another statistic, and will walk away from her if I see things going that way.

DJ Dork: Your advice about knowing after 2 years if I want to marry her or not is the same type of “advice” I’ve been getting from her friends, my family and my colleagues at work. I don’t believe there is a set time to know whether it’s time to marry someone.

I’ve explained to everyone who has given me advice that the past 2 years have been extremely busy and stressful for me at work. Consequently, what might take someone 1 year if they had a less busy/stressful life has taken me 2 years to reach. For example, many people who meet in their junior year or so of college get married right after college or shortly thereafter. They’ve spent every waking moment with each other, and their relationship had the opportunity to solidify. Mine hasn’t, and has been filled with countless (and I mean countless) times where I’m mentally distracted by what’s going on at work for weeks at a time. Nevertheless, people who don’t have my life still see 2 years as a long time, and don’t seem to understand why it’s “taking so long.”

 

[drZaius09]

NEXT!!! Dump her hard and fast. Then, when all these people start intruding in your affairs again, you can explain that she's out of your life because you didn't want to deal with the pressure. You might just teach your meddlesome friends and associates a lesson to keep their two-bit advice to themselves.

 

[NewMan]

As for her annoying habits, I think she’s at least entitled to an opportunity to change. I have “trained” her in the past to do certain things, so perhaps another discussion is appropriate. Nobody knows that the things they do annoy actually other people until somebody says something. If she changes, then living together wouldn’t be an unacceptable proposition.

My opinion on this statement - and of course it's only just that...

Changing someone or training someone is definitely not the way to go for me. What we are talking about here is the way someone has chosen the way they live. i.e. being tidy or untidy for instance. The fact that a woman is untidy, would I want to change her or train her. No, not for me. Several reasons for this. If I'm going to be in an LTR with a woman - she has to be independent. I don't want someone that I have to change - I w2ant her of strong mind. And if she's not the right fit for me, then it's time to next her. Any strong self respecting woman, will not bend to demands - or calls to change. Thats the kind of woman I want.

If I can't live with her, I next her. I don't want to be like a father to these chicks.

Thats just my 0:2 cents

 

[princelydeeds]

If a woman changes, for you. There will come a time when she will resent the hell out of you for making her change. I don't think you can change or train a perosn. Theproblem comes after shes got you, see right now she doesn't really have you and Im sure she knows that. But after she gets comfy and realises shes got you then she will be her true self. You are obviously a good catch shes not stupid. Shes gonna do whatever it takes to keep you at this point. Things won't always be that way, especially after a marriage or children.

If you go through with this you are setting yourself up to get screwed.

 

[Sting]

NewMan and PrincelyDeeds,

You guys may be right, but there is the old maxim that over time, couples rub away at each other’s rough edges to form a polished set – or at least one that fits reasonably well together. The key is being willing to change, not because your partner wants you to change, but because you want to change.

Although I’m older and wiser than her, I’ve also learned a few things from her during our relationship. Some of the things I learned may be the result of finding this website, but I’m more inclined to believe that as a result of dating her, a different world has opened up to me. Married couples are more inclined to spend time with you if you are dating someone seriously than if you’re single. While this might seem obvious, you don’t realize it until you start getting invited to wine and cheese tasting parties at people’s homes. Oftentimes the home is that of your boss(es).

Could I have gained these experiences with a different woman? Probably not, because her profession (stockbroker/financial planner) gives her access to people with a great deal of power and money, which is only going to grow over time. This is one of the things that attracted me to her, namely, she’s acceptable to the social circles to which I aspire. Put another way, it’s great to date a stripper with a hot body, but you’re not going to introduce her to Senator So-and-So and his wife at a ****tail party (unless you want a little favor from the Senator and you do it when his wife isn’t around).

Does the foregoing sound like I’m trying to justify NOT breaking up with her? Possibly, but I’m merely trying to give some context to the situation. She’s not white trash and lacking in ambition. Thus, she’s not the type to sit on the couch eating Bon Bons and watching Oprah.

On the issue of training, isn’t that what women do once they guy says “I do?” No more crappy furniture, lousy clothes, pizza/beer every night for dinner, etc… I’m simply turning the tables, and trying to create a well-polished woman out of someone who has the potential, but simply needs a little guidance on how to get there.

Finally, on the issue of "love," I've always had the belief that you let your head rather than your heart lead you in a relationship. That's how I've handled things over the past 2 years, and it has prevented me from being manipulated through seemingly innocuous behavior on her part. You can grow to love someone, as I have grown to love her. But living together or marriage? Not yet.

 

[NewMan]

tears....

This almost brings tears to my eyes.

Sting - this is not a personal thing I hope you understand, it's just my opinion - and perhaps I've got the wrong impression of you from reading your post?

Your obviously a smart guy - and have got your sh#t together in many ways;

Finally, on the issue of "love," I've always had the belief that you let your head rather than your heart lead you in a relationship. That's how I've handled things over the past 2 years, and it has prevented me from being manipulated through seemingly innocuous behavior on her part. You can grow to love someone, as I have grown to love her. But living together or marriage? Not yet.

The way you are probably leads you not to be hurt very much in relationships. Leading with your head protects you from these women or the chance that you may get hurt. I'd bet to say you think things through and are pretty calculating. I'm like this - but what I don't understand is the "I have grown to love her". Damn, it sounds like an arranged marrage. I could not be with someone when after 2 yrs I've grown to love her - I want to love my woman for everything she is - desire her and want her. I certainly don't want ot grow to love her - is that really the realtionship you want for the rest of your life?

On the issue of training, isn’t that what women do once they guy says “I do?” No more crappy furniture, lousy clothes, pizza/beer every night for dinner, etc… I’m simply turning the tables, and trying to create a well-polished woman out of someone who has the potential, but simply needs a little guidance on how to get there.

Are you not a DJ? Crappy furniture? I think not. If your a DJ then you look after yourself - dress well, eat right and have a nice apartment/house. But, I get your point. All these things you mention - is it not something that we WANT? A woman who will look after the house, cook good meals for us and our kids (if applicable)? A woman who will have pride in the house she lives in that will create a home that is beautiful? all these things we want, even though many of us live in Sh#t holes or have crappy furniture or eat the ocasional TV dinner. Nothing you mentioned is negative - it's not changing you - it's not controlling. Thats not eve3n in the same league as what your doing - telling her she must ACT - or LIVE her life in such and such way.

Princely is right - she will grow to resent you over time - if you are trying to change her.

I’m more inclined to believe that as a result of dating her, a different world has opened up to me. Married couples are more inclined to spend time with you if you are dating someone seriously than if you’re single. While this might seem obvious, you don’t realize it until you start getting invited to wine and cheese tasting parties at people’s homes. Oftentimes the home is that of your boss(es).

What can I say here? Your with someone because you want to be invited to wine and cheese? Come on - thats definitely not a reason to stay with someone you don't even live with. Aren;t these the same people who have talked to you about marrying her? I know what it means to have a woman who is able to float in these social circles - I have a similar position in my job. But I certainly will not stay with a woman just because of this.

Probably not, because her profession (stockbroker/financial planner) gives her access to people with a great deal of power and money, which is only going to grow over time. This is one of the things that attracted me to her, namely, she’s acceptable to the social circles to which I aspire. Put another way, it’s great to date a stripper with a hot body, but you’re not going to introduce her to Senator So-and-So and his wife at a ****tail party (unless you want a little favor from the Senator and you do it when his wife isn’t around).

This is again in the same vain. Do you know how many women are out there that could float around in these social circles. That are smart, intelligent? there are a lot.

Bottom line - whilst you wouldn't want to date a stripper - you'll probably end up banging one on the side before this relationship is done. I don't read that you have any passion what - so - ever for this woman. Your with her because of her job and because she can socialize with your work colleagues/boss.

Is that a reason to stay with her? when the bottom line is you don't want to move in with her - and she's untidy etc. Doesn't sound like a perfect match does it?

Again - just something to think about. Your going to do your thing, but it's food for thought.

 

[princelydeeds]

I completely agree with Newman. Sting I think you have rationalized this relationship to the point hat it makes sense to you. Im simply not eloquent enough to change your mind. If the passion is gone before the relationship truly begins, it will only get worse with time. I think your reasons for liking her a little shallow. Some guys can work with shallow, I can't. There is no way I can be with a woman I don't truly desire with all my heart it simply doesn't work for me.

It sounds to me like you don't want to be the old guy in the club. We all go through that at some point. The trick is not to settle for someone who is just good enough. If you were compiling a list of qualities you want in a woman this chick sounds like a c+. She passes she has a good foundation but she hasn't mastered the material. You don't have any B or better students to compare her with so your willing to settle simply because shes passes the test. My advice wait for the A student to come along, be patient it will come.

Having a first Lady is good thing. Having someone who knows her way through high class society has its plusses. The negatives are often that living someone who is always performing can truly be a drag.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Sting
Despite all of this accumulated wisdom that I have regarding moving in with a woman and getting married, am I being overly-cautious or unrealistic?

Consider you specific reasons for NOT taking your relationship to the next level. Once you find out what they are, you can talk to your girlfriend about your concerns.

If you don't feel that you can talk about them to her, that should tell you something. If you feel that you can, her responces to your concerns should more than be enough to tell you whether you should continue the relationship or not.