Prenup problems

[Nutz]

My friend is getting hitched, but his family is emphasizing he get a prenup since they're loaded and want to protect the assets he'll inherit one day. His fiance is balking and making a huge issue out of it to the point they're about to break up. Personally I think they should since, well, he's an idiot for getting married to begin with but that's another story. Then it got me thinking, what are some sound ways of making it happen without the fallout he's experiencing? I know Tom Leykis has some great words of wisdom on the subject, but I can't find his old podcasts on the topic.

 

[muscleman]

Prenup doesn't guarantee anything and can be overruled without problem.

If "he's an idiot for getting married to begin with", that shouldn't be "another story". That's THE story. He shouldn't be getting married (yet).

 

[Nutz]

All these things I know. You're preaching to teh choir there and he knows he should be getting a prenup. The question is how does a guy bring up the topic without coming off as an a-hole and sell the idea to the woman. Most get uppity at the topic and that emotional strife browbeats men into not getting one (which we all agree is a bad idea). I'm looking for ways of avoiding all that.

 

[The Champ]

I thought inheritance can't be taken by the woman in a divorce?

That isn't true?

 

[muscleman]

There are plenty of cases where prenups have been overruled and lifetime alimony awarded for one BS reason or another. Google it.

If you think a prenup will protect your assets indefinitely (assets being anything your wife or the government catches wiff of), you are very, VERY wrong.

And if you're afraid to bring it up because you think you'll look like an a$$hole, you've already given her your balls and should under no circumstance be getting married.

 

[Da Realist]

Truthfully he's in a bad situation. Basically the pre-nup is to save his family's tail more than him since they would have to spend money keeping the woman from getting it if they split. Not to mention him doing it just because the family said to do it makes him look weak before the marriage even begins.

First, he should get his family out of his business for the most part. The second he does anything they say to do is when they will tell him how to run his home and everything else.

The next thing he needs to do is instead of setting up a pre-nup, he should be moving his money to things or places that can't easily be tracked. It's cool to have a back-up plan, but you don't want an OVERT one to hinge everything on. Have a small back-up that she can find after a little searching, but have the main one(s) hidden away that no one knows about. Let her find out about the savings account at another bank, but keep it hidden that you have a model on call in a speed boat with a couple million, a passport, and a pistol stashed in it.

The las thing is that your buddy needs to make sure his woman is straight on what's expected of her when he gets married. At least for me, I would tell her nothing has changed just because we have money. If I'm working, she needs to be cleaning, cooking, and taking care of the kids instead of going shoping all day everyday. I refuse to be married and support a lazy person. But then again, this all goes into making sure she is worth being married to before getting hitched. My feeling is that if you have to get a pre-nup, you shouldn't be marrying that person.

 

[muscleman]

How can you ask "how much money do you want if we split"? You're going to get a retarded answer.

Point is: if you marry, any assets that aren't hidden from EVERYONE can potentially become half hers. No document, prenup or otherwise, will save you. Think long and hard about marrying and make a list of what you stand to gain (anything?) which you can't have outside of wedlock, and everything you stand to lose.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Nutz,
If one must marry then the very least one needs is a prenuptial Agreement.without one is like going on the Titanic without a Life Jacket....I taught contract Law and always urged my students no matter how small the job you want done,get a standard contract signed,if things go wrong you have a basis for sorting things out...Muscles is right the PreNuptial is easily overturned,mine was five years ago and then it was readmitted as a Contract It really saved my Conjolos.

 

[Bible_Belt]

they're loaded and want to protect the assets he'll inherit one day.


The problem with a prenup is that it only protects what you currently have before getting married. Everything you get while married is half hers.

The rich parents need to spend about $10,000 on a good attorney so that the inheritance goes into a trust after they die. The son can then access the money as trustee without technically owning it. If he doesn't own it, then she can't get half.

 

[vitor]

The Prenup rules from what I understand

1. Must be signed 1-3 months in advance of the wedding
(prevents the idea that she/he was forced to sign and did not have the oppertunity to review it)
2. Both parties should get private council
(prevents he/she from saying the did not understand it )
3. Should be taped or signed in front of said attorneys
(prevents he/she from saying the were forced to sign under fear or harm)

If she will not sign the prenup he sould walk away, if she really loves him she will come back to him. tell your friend to stop being a p u s sy and to man the F up.. Have him put some clause if they are married for 15 years he will dissolve the prenup and they will share all assests.

I love gambling but not with a woman who can and probally will take all my ****...

 

[Bible_Belt]

What I mean by the prenup not applying during marriage is that she still gets half of the wealth accumulated during the marriage, regardless of what the prenup says. The prenup only protects the wealth you already have going into the marriage. Most newlyweds are broke, which is why most people don't need a prenup.

There is one exception to that rule. If you own a business before you meet her, you may exclude the wealth generated from that business during the marriage from being included in the marital property, if the woman never has anything at all to do with the business. She can't ever have any direct access to the business accounts or participate in management in any way.

Vitor's three points are all correct. One that I would add is that the prenup must not be one-sided, or else a judge will throw it out. If you want a prenup to stick, write in something like you have to pay her alimony for six months after a divorce, no exceptions. Make it a token amount, maybe $100-$200/month. A clause like that can make a prenup hold together in court, even if you are paying $1,000 in alimony, which is tax-deductible in the US, to keep her from getting half of a $100,000 business.

The most important thing I could tell anyone about divorce is that there is no winning. There are only degrees of losing. The friendlier the divorce, the less it will cost you.

 

[Trader]

My friend is getting hitched, but his family is emphasizing he get a prenup since they're loaded and want to protect the assets he'll inherit one day. His fiance is balking and making a huge issue out of it to the point they're about to break up. Personally I think they should since, well, he's an idiot for getting married to begin with but that's another story. Then it got me thinking, what are some sound ways of making it happen without the fallout he's experiencing? I know Tom Leykis has some great words of wisdom on the subject, but I can't find his old podcasts on the topic.

When your friend's potential wife reacts in this way to a pre-nup (considering breaking up the relationship over it), what does it *really* say about her?

Her true colors have come out.

Would any one of you want to marry this type of girl?

 

[muscleman]

I've been thinking about this a bit and it's not surprising that most (every?) women will get their panties up in a bunch when you mention a prenup. After all, her reason for getting married is to become financially secure for life and be able to provide for herself and her offspring, regardless of what happens to you. Otherwise why would she be getting married? For that matter, why would you be getting married? I still see no real benefit in it for a man.

 

[backbreaker]

Needless to say I got engaged yesterday and one of my biggest concerns was well... the her assraping me for everything i own.

after talking to a few attorneys and settilng on a very good one, I have come to the conclusion that trhe "prenups don't work" is broscience if there ever was such a thing

As long as you don't cheat (or don't get caught cheating), all your assets going into the marriage are rock solid.

If I were to say... 5 years from now, win the kentucky derby, sale the horse to stud for 50 million dollars and we get a divorce, she's entitled to half that money or at the very least, that money is fair game.

but the stuff that I did before we get married, she's not entitled to that.

In the prenup I put togehter, she gets 3 grand a month for 2 years if we get a divorce, plus a certain amount to pay for joe's cloths, schooling and any other costs associated with him.


what that prevents is her going in front of a judge, and making a case for getting half my net worth because she needs money and is being "put out on her ass".

if something were to happen and she can't get a job / find a man in 2 years, that's not my problem anymore.

 

[Nutz]

I just thought of another way he can frame it if she tries to play it as though he doesn't trust her:

"I don't trust lawyers should the unthinkable happen."

It's a blame shift to a third party that most people despise and share a lack trust for.


When they try to frame it as though you just want to protect your money, absolutely agree with that since it's the truth. But again, frame it as protecting your AND HER ASSETS from lawyers for your (hypothetical) child's benefit.

 

[jophil28]

When your friend's potential wife reacts in this way to a pre-nup (considering breaking up the relationship over it), what does it *really* say about her?

Her true colors have come out.

Would any one of you want to marry this type of girl?

This is a huge point ^^

Merely broaching the subject with her of his asset protection can serve as a quick reveal of her true motivations.

I sometimes play a little roulette. There are a couple of even money bets available on the wheel. No way would I bet the family farm on a spin which had about a 50% chance.

Imagine walking into an auto dealer and negotiating to buy that hot softtop with all the options. Then just before you sign the saleman says , "Oh, by the way there is a 5O% chance that this car will explode in the first few years. "
Do you still drive it off the lot ?

 

[backbreaker]

I just thought of another way he can frame it if she tries to play it as though he doesn't trust her:

"I don't trust lawyers should the unthinkable happen."

It's a blame shift to a third party that most people despise and share a lack trust for.


When they try to frame it as though you just want to protect your money, absolutely agree with that since it's the truth. But again, frame it as protecting your AND HER ASSETS from lawyers for your (hypothetical) child's benefit.

he's a grown ass man.

If a grown man can't tell a woman hey i'm scared that if we get a divorce I can lose half my ****, than that's his problem.

that is not the situtation you want to start sugarcoating things.

any woman that tries to play the 'you don't trust me card' is an auto dismissal.

becuase while she's doing that, she's also showing she doesn't give jack **** about your peice of mind. her having the option to assrape you in a divorce is more important to her than your pecie of mind. and that is not anyone you need to marry.

 

[Nutz]

he's a grown ass man.

If a grown man can't tell a woman hey i'm scared that if we get a divorce I can lose half my ****, than that's his problem.

that is not the situtation you want to start sugarcoating things.

any woman that tries to play the 'you don't trust me card' is an auto dismissal.

becuase while she's doing that, she's also showing she doesn't give jack **** about your peice of mind. her having the option to assrape you in a divorce is more important to her than your pecie of mind. and that is not anyone you need to marry.

Nah, it's just a simple way to reframe the situation. I agree though that if she gives you crap about it to do like you said that she's tipping her hand and isn't interested in your piece of mind, only worrying about her financial future, etc. It's basically flipping the script and is just one more way of reframing, which is what this thread is all about.

 

[The Message Boy]

backbreaker makes some good points and has structured his pre-nup good, but while a lot of guys casted this quote off, I totally agree with it:

muscleman says,

There are plenty of cases where prenups have been overruled and lifetime alimony awarded for one BS reason or another. Google it.

There ARE ways, assuming the woman gets a good attorney, that pre-nups can be overruled no matter WHAT you put in there. Let a woman make a good case about needing more money, etc. Yes, what you had going into it is SUPPOSED to be off limits, but when you consider other variables you could have to DIP into those other pots to meet certain obligations.

As much as I preach about "loving" women on this forum, one thing I have to AGREE with for the most part, is that marriage is very risky. Taking it a step further, even if you ARE NOT married but you move the chick in your house for a certain time period, even in THAT situation you can't just break up with her and kick her out, there's laws in place where she can obtain money from you even though you were never married!!

 

[Poonani Maker]

I wouldn't even trust a devout highly extreme conservative Christian life-going church saint of a prude woman to marriage without a pre-nup. I've seen it happen way too many times. 4 kids, heh, whatever, she'll Ruin your life, regardless. I saw a former church member attend our Thanksgiving dinner last week. Didn't even recognize him. His face was severely drained and ragged. Looked WAY older than I'd last saw him 2-3 years ago. She Ruined his life. I couldn't even bring myself to talk to him, it saddened me that much. Poor guy.