Posting on Good Looks Do They Matter = Immediate Ban

[God_of_getting_layed]

forums have to have rules regarding what kind of posts can be made, otherwise people are just going to keep posting stupid, redundant questions.

This site is more than just "some forum", it is supposed to be an expert source of information on dating, not just "some discussion forum" about dating topic. It MUST be able to address important key issues such as the question of weither looks matter.

the question of whether or not looks matter or not falls into this category of useless, tired debates.

Re-read the part about being able to address key issues in the expert sources field.

also, whether or not dialectic is healthy is irrelevant. the purpose of this board is to help men improve their success with women.

Thats only another reason "looks matter" threads should stay open. Youll need to know the TRUE ANSWER to that question if you want to improve with women. Closing off that topic here is like closing off topics about "does paying attention to the enemy queen matter?" in some 'expert chess playing advice forum'. Its a question youll need to know the answer to if you want success.

and this is my primary issue with these threads (Besides that they are just dumb):arguments over whether or not looks matter really have no usefulness at all to any of the readers and are off topic because they don't really relate to improving ones success with women.

That makes no sense. How does a discussion over a variable that may very well be the most important variable in the "success with women equation" not relate to women and dating?

again, that makes no sense.

all they will do is discourage people who are ugly/average looking and lower their confidence.

It's not discouragement, its a no BS assessment or reality. If it werent for no BS assessments of reality, many of the world's most successful people would not be where theyare today

If you are discouraged by truthful information, that is your problem, youll need to deal with your own psychological issues.

Besides, the current "looks matters" theory says that women's personal tastes in what is good looking is subjective. one woman's ugly guy is another's hot guy. So this means even average joe or FUGG will be hot to some girl out there. Nothing discouraging about that, Id call that good news. In fact, all you "looks DONT matter" people have actually caught on to this already; you guys are using it as evidence against the theory!!, remember all those "ugly guys with hot girls" you claim to see so much of? Well, there you go! Those are actually examples of an ugly guy where a hot girl personally thaught he was hot to her (Thats why shes with them). Some girls like em fat, some girls like em skinny and runty, some like em short etc.....theres someone for everybody!

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

whether or not you can ignore them doesn't matter, by that logic why ban any threads at all?

the real question is why do people feel the need to pollute this forum by bringing up the same damn issue over and over which has already been beat to death many times?

In order to read "pollution", you have to voluntarily click on the thread. Keep in mind, this is 100% your decision. Just some FYI.

Id hardly consider a topic pollution, it at most in the brief history of so suave, there have only been 2 or 3 "looks matters" threads active at once, and Im exagerating here.

The looks matters threads are still a far ways from what would be called "spamming". Once it gets there, then you can talk about pollution.

 

[djbr]

http://www.google.com

Search for hot girls.

You all need some good old tension relief :crackup:

 

[Ripper]

Lets not forget about the self improvement side of this. Many guys seeking to improve themselves with women wonder if looks matter. Knowing the answer to this question will help them make the right decision if they should be investing in improving their looks or instead be investing in improving their game. If theyre left in the dark about this issue, they wont have any true expert guidance as to what would actually be improving their success with women, improving looks or game. But if this issue is addressed, and the truth finally found out, if looks matter or not, guys will finally know if its vital that they improve their looks or not if they truly want to be successful with women. see how it works? good

It's funny, I would and have argued the exact opposite. I think the last thing guys coming to this site need is some huge polemic shouting out the importance of looks even if your standpoint is correct. Imagine yourself as an overweight, mateless chump coming here only to be told right from the off that looks are in fact the be all and end all. There'd be no reason to stay and said person would miss out on all the great advice there is (if you look hard enough for it...). Where would their self-improvement come from then? Exactly...it wouldn't.

Also, why the need to polarize the debate so much and engage in such radical looks apologetics? How is it benefiting you? At the end of the day, who cares if a bunch of "kj's" believe that looks don't mean jack. Let them live that way.

It's interesting that you suppose an answer can actually be reached. I would have thought the mammoth 80 page thread in the archive section would have persuaded you otherwise.

 

[belividere]

These threads are hilarious. Especially when people just pull numbers out of the a$$ like 79.62% of girls love the hot guys, then there following sentence is about how different girls define hot guys differently.

But before you say "but looks matters threads only cause flame wars", well thats what they say about political threads. But the truth is, flame wars arent started by the topics, just the immature people who participate in them.

Thats funny I posted a thread disagreeing with you in that 80 pg joke of a thread and you immediately got pissier than pubescent girl who just got her first period.

Since there are only a few people who are so enthralled by this topic I suggest the following method to put an end to it:

Post pics of yourself with your girlfriends and let everyone else build there opinions from that. So many moronic extrapolations were drawn from individual cases in that huge thread like the show in england that pics and videos are the basis of both sides, why not just go ahead and show your own pics or videos?

I'm not taking any sides on this argument as I've seen both extremes and everything in between in real life. I just dont see how you extremists have so much free time, and cant understand that most people just read your posts for entertainment at most.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

These threads are hilarious. Especially when people just pull numbers out of the a$$ like 79.62% of girls love the hot guys, then there following sentence is about how different girls define hot guys differently.

It's called "justification at any cost until I realize I need an escape clause."

 

[Delta]

"forums have to have rules regarding what kind of posts can be made, otherwise people are just going to keep posting stupid, redundant questions."

oh please. can you imagine how unbelievably SPARSE this or any board would be without constant, belabored, soul crushing redundancy?!

if pithiness and originality were the pre-requisites of a bbs post, we would have to incinerate 95% of the internet.

seriously, how much of what is even been posted in the last week is at all original or relays new useful information that hasn't been covered ad nauseum already?

this argument is moot. completely.

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"arguments over whether or not looks matter really have no usefulness at all to any of the readers and are off topic because they don't really relate to improving ones success with women. all they will do is discourage people who are ugly/average looking and lower their confidence."

"What exactly IS the appeal of trying to force your closed-minded views on all of us? Can't you just tell yourselves that looks-matter by yourselves and leave the rest of us alone?"

this is the CRUX, actually, of most arguments against looks matter threads: LOOKS MATTER THREADS ARE NOT HELPFUL AND LIKELY TO DISCOURAGE.

i AGREE COMPLETELY. completely.

but WHERE IS IT WRITTEN, in the manual of life, the universe and everything, THAT THE VERY NATURE OF ALL TRUTH IS HAPPY AND CHEERFUL?

besides, there is PLENTY of threads (and e-books by several prominent pua authors from the community) that espouse that looks don't matter... even if they don't use that exact terminology (and basically, all the threads that you guys DON'T object to by implication or omission).

as i said, many many many times before in other posts - the self help community frequently EMBRACES LIES.... because the lies are HELPFUL. GENUINELY HELPFUL. the lies INSPIRE ACTION and more than that, HOPE, whereas the truth may inspire despair and inaction.

but every self help community does indeed need gadflies banging the dispiriting gong of truth every so often so that hope is tempered in reality.

cuz after all, what kind of ridiculous mess would everyone who bought "the secret" be in without a modicum of common sense and a heap of credible public detractors? they'd be lying in their beds with a picture of a bike, that's where.

specifically in regards to deus' quote - why exactly are the minds of the members of "your side" so FRAGILE that it cannot tolerate a difference of opinion?

you can no more force me to believe that looks don't matter as i can force you of the opposite. we set out our positions, we argue. no compulsion.

my side can take it. why is it that your side is so delicate?

and as for CLOSED MINDEDNESS, hahaha... this really makes me laugh. it is not the side that holds an opinion that is close minded. it is the side that cannot tolerate opposing views that is CLOSED MINDED.

in that regard, i only see one side that calls (begs) for censorship. and it's not mine.

delta

 

[Delta]

WHY LOOKS MATTER by delta:

i was going to go into a very detailed explanation of EVOLUTIONARY PSYCHOLOGY, symmetry being a gauge of both beauty and health, masculine physiology and dominance as well as hip to waist ratio, and an amusing anecdote about the prevalence of married, less masculine men rearing children that turns out not to be theirs, as well as our inborn sense of aesthetics and a natural inclination towards beauty in all things... but i'll make it easier.
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WHO SCORES THE MORE CHICKS?

A) TALL, MUSCULAR, HANDSOME man with phenomenal confidence, charisma and pua skills.

or

B) SHORT, SKINNY, MISSHAPEN GNOME of a man with a nipple growing out of his forehead (hey, we're sayin' looks really don't matter right?) with phenomenal confidence, charisma and pua skills.

ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL EXCEPT SIMPLE, SUPERFICIAL, "SHALLOW" APPEARANCE. who wins? answer honestly. everyone.

if A and B do not end the competition in a dead heat, LOOKS MATTER.
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final point -

i am NOT SAYING that it is IMPOSSIBLE for bad looking guys to do well with ladies. this is CERTIFIABLY NOT TRUE.

i would say that he would certainly have a TOUGHER TIME. more obstacles. but i would not say that such a thing is not impossible.

what most of you "looks don't matter" people don't understand is that i can say both things at the same time. that looks DO matter but it is not impossible.

delta

 

[Delta]

deus,

you base almost all your arguments on the experience of your personal life. do you not see the flaw in that kind of thinking?

"it's true for me, so it MUST be exactly so for everyone and must indeed be an intrinsic property of the universe."

do you not see the flaw in that kind of thinking?

delta

 

[Delta]

4 points -

i agree with you that looks is a FACTOR among many factors. deus consistently argues that looks play no role whatsoever (even though at other times of clarity, he allows that it can make a difference [???]).

i actually DON'T try to hammer people with it willy nilly. but when deus and some others say that IT PLAYS NO PART WHATSOEVER... well then, that's a view that is FAR MORE EXTREME than anything i've said. so i go in... more than anything compelled by fascination at errors in thought.

everyone has a right to believe whatever they want. but that's not to say that it is not worthwhile to tell someone they are wrong - unless we believe that people are impervious to learning.

finally (and again), no one is ever ever ever forced to read a thread. this thread is about the topic of banning topics and censorship. and no matter how superfluous you think a subject is, i think it's silly to ban when the solution is DON'T READ IT!

delta

 

[Delta]

"WHY RACE IS ALL THAT MATTERS" and "MORE EVIDENCE WHY ASIANS CANT GET WHITE CHICKS" and "Indians getting white chicks... the final debate." It's the same thing here!

another thing - your analogy is faulty. this is the way deus states his unequivocal position, not how i state mine.

never have i said that looks are ALL THAT MATTER. that is a ridiculous position as indefensible as looks don't matter at all.

my position is simply (and what should be COMPLETELY NON-CONTROVERSIALLY!) that looks matter.

personally, i think the statement RACE MATTERS is TRUE, INSTRUCTIVE and INFORMATIVE! also, if it is true or there is anecdotal evidence that it is hard for asians to get white chicks, i'd like to hear that too.

as i've said on many of the relevant threads, i think this board is FAR FAR TOO SQUEAMISH when it comes to the issue of race. it does make a difference and men should be able to talk about such stuff without being so fing dainty about things.

i'm not familiar with the secret. but i don't believe that the belief that one can succeed without good looks is one of those "lies that inspires action", its actually true.

NEVER have i argued this. i go out of my way to say that that is always possible. my point is always and simply - looks DO matter.

delta

 

[ricorico]

Of course looks are not all that matters. Looks,personality and intelligence is a combo that's hard to beat. most women dream of that since they are a little girl. Probably why pop idold are always cute with good hair,good physique and nice teeth. They know it keeps teens buying concert tickets and CD's.

Looks really go a long way and it's never more obvious than guys going to some foreign country and marrying chicks they can't talk to in order to get a cute wife. Most of the guys doing that are UGG. But they look rich to those poor foreign women desperate for a way out of poverty.

About 1% are actually good-looking. The odd good-looking guy in search of a Mail order Bride is probably one with personality issues.Otherwise it's 99% UGG guys.


http://www.rwguide.com/forums/upload/isis.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v61/viper3063/035_35.jpg
believe me, after getting hit on by decent looking guys with money, this girl will split!

You never see guys like this going overseas for a girl who needs a green card. They don't have to.Unless they are so socially retarded but's that's rare.

http://itchylot.com/ck/ck.sabato7b.jpg

http://www.wentworthmilleronline.com/news/data/upimages/10.jpg

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

I'll tell you something, man. Even though I could write a thousand words on why I believe you're wrong, why you have my position completely backwards, and why you have completely misrepresented me...I have no drive to do it. Not because I'm tired, beaten, or exhausted, but because I simply don't care anymore. Seriously though, you should go see "300". It is quite a film.

Im pretty sure you are a troll, thats why you cant.

But anyways, how is seeing '300' going to change anyones view on this debate?

 

[Nighthawk]

Tell me if I'm wrong and I'm loathe to add fuel to this tired old fire by starting a poll, but I reckon less than 5% of the members here believe looks don't matter. The rest think it's a factor of arguable importance.

And yes, it's strange how some members find this false dichotomy the only topic they choose to endlessly fight about. I call shenanigans.

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

Delta has stated his views on the "looks matter" topic. Now allow me to state mine:

Like Delta, I too agree that looks are only part of the equation; personality is a factor too. Saying "looks dont matter" is such a lie, they do.

Allow me to elaborate on exactly "how looks matter and how they apply" and also "where" looks matter (looks dont always matter, sometimes the completely dont).

1. How do looks matter, and how do they apply?
"Looks matter" in that they are NOT optional. the 1st thing that must happen is that the woman must see you as atleast "cute" in her eyes. This must happen 1st or personality or Nothing will work. Why doesnt personality work if she thinks yo are ugly? well its becuase if she thinks you are ugly, then she is repulsed by you, She might be able to tolarate being friends with you, but sex? it will make her cringe no matter how great your personality is or how great your game is. In fact, any kind of sexuality oozing from you will only exagerate her replusion to your uglyness. To understand this, just consider your chances of having sex with a woman who is ugly to you, no matter how great her personality is, you just wont be able to do it. IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME WAY WITH WOMEN!

Now, on the other hand, If the woman does find you good looking. You still have to have atleast a half decent personality, or you will get no where. Personality matters too. Her finding you good looking only means you have a chance to get with her, it doesnt mean you will. Being ugly to her means you have no chance. Personality is a factor too.

Consider an analagy: to get a car to drive, gasoline matters, but so does the ability to operate the car. If gasoline is not in the car, you car operating ability will do nothing to get it driving. The presence of gasoline must happen 1st before any car driving ability can do you anygood, but at the same time, gasoline alone wont drive it, youve got to operate the car as well. The analagy here is: gas=looks, and car operating ability=personality.



2. Looks dont always matter.
Lets talk about "where" looks matter, this is the good news.

Looks pretty much only matter if the woman is good looking, but it doesnt matter to every good looking woman. There exists a small minority of the "good looking woman" population that do not care about looks. BUT MOST GOOD LOOKING WOMEN REQUIRE THEIR MEN TO BE GOOD LOOKING IN THEIR EYES, ie LOOKS ARE A MUST TO THESE TYPES OF WOMEN. So most of the time when dealing with hotties, looks are a must, but not always. THe less attractive the woman is, the less this applies, the less likely she is to be shallow in this way. WHY? well basically its related to a woman's demand. Unattractive women are lower in demand, and really cant afford to be shallow and care about looks. They train themselves to see past looks. Many ugly guys are known to do the same thing despite the fact that men are visial and care about a woman's looks.

3. "good looks" are subjective, theres a shallow hottie for almost everyone.

What is 'good looking' is not objective, it is subjective. Women's taste varies. one woman's hot guy is another's ugly guy. So if you look like average joe, there are very likely to be some women who personaly think you are hot in their eyes. So you can still find a shallow hot woman that will hook up with you despite the fact you could never ever look like a male model. And no, these women dont have "ugly fetishes"; if the woman likes the way you look, then she doesnt think you are ugly, therefore its not an ugly fetish.

Some people get confused wit this part. They read that "most hot women require a guy to look good" and then read "what is good looking is subjective". THey think this is some kind of contridiction. It is not. Most hot women require a guy to look good as in 'by her personal option', the guy must be good looking to her. Hot women will all have varying tastes as to what they consider good looking, but one thing they all have in common is that the only guys they sleep with will be the guys they personally find as good looking in their own eyes.

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

bump!

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

Tell me if I'm wrong and I'm loathe to add fuel to this tired old fire by starting a poll, but I reckon less than 5% of the members here believe looks don't matter. The rest think it's a factor of arguable importance.

And yes, it's strange how some members find this false dichotomy the only topic they choose to endlessly fight about. I call shenanigans.

You may be right that only a minority believe "looks DONT matter", but then again, you may be wrong given the large number of posts focusing only on game, and almost none on how to improve your looks. Lets not forget the fierce resistance against the idea of "looks mattering" that I have seen.

Also, many of the people who beleive it is "an arguable factor of importance" look at "looking good" as an optional thing. They admit it matters and is important, but view it as optional ie. they beleive being good looking helps, but dont beleive the woman needs to see you as attractive. They beleive you can still get most of hot woman if you have good game, even if most hot women see you as ugly.

This is what the whole "looks matters" argument is trying to correct really. Its trying to show that if you are trying to get a hot chick, most of the time, she MUST see you as good looking, or no bullet proof game or anything will work. This is radically different than the view most have: "yeah, looks matter, they will help you, but you dont need them if you have good game, you can still get the girl even if she thinks you are ugly". Thats the problem, the common view is that the hot woman can think you are ugly, and you still have a chance most of the time. THIS IS INCORRECT.

 

[John_Galt]

Looks definitely matter.

 

[Paradox]

There is a 80 page "looks" thread in the archive.

It's ironic how this thread suggesting a ban for starting a "looks" thread turned into a thread about "looks".

All "looks" threads will be closed or deleted.

Thread closed.