Player Supreme, Senor Fingers, everyone else...back me up here.

[Mr. Latte]

In response to a thread about chivalry (not grand gestures, just basic manners), and the responses about "chivalry is dead, go out of your way to slam the door in her face and treat her like crap", which was posted at...

http://sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=359175#post359175


I wrote this. I'd like to hear whether or not you guys agree with me.

"That's (referring to going out of your way to slam doors in girl's faces, basically consciously trying to be a jerk and "attract her") not a way of life, that's C&F. Guys on this board seem to have the idea that they're not AFC because they make an effort to treat girls like crap. AFC isn't a set of actions, it's a state of mind. When you're consciously being someone you're not (i.e. being a jerk on purpose because it makes you "cool"), you're not different than any AFC who buys flowers and writes her poems...you're going out of your way to try and make her like you. Here's a thought...DO WHAT YOU WANT. If you want to open a door for the girl because that's how you were raised, and you believe it to be a common courtesy, go ahead. If you want to pull out her chair, be my guest. Do it because you do it naturally. Of course you look like a loser when you make a huge deal out of holding a door open for her. I hold the door for every woman..most of the time, I'll hold the door for a guy. But I do it, because it's natural to me. I'm not out to impress anyone. I don't make a big deal of it, most people probably don't even notice. Being a jerk and being an AFC are the same thing...you're putting on an act to try and get a girl's attention. Why not just be a man, do what you feel is right, and what you want to do? A real man doesn't need acts and games to attract a woman, because they're busy fighting over him.

 

[myfriendblu]

Originally posted by Mr. Latte
Being a jerk and being an AFC are the same thing...

True, but it is the jerks who get laid.....and the AFC's who do not. I don't go out of my way to be an azzhole, but then again, Im not exactly the most "giving" person in a relationship. I like to run the show, if ya know what I mean. To this very day, it has worked like a charm. I could have wedded probably 7 or 8 girls by now, if not more had i not been such a quick NEXTer Think being a jerk doesn't work? I dunno, but It works like a charm for me.

Bottom line - it all comes down to one simple point. The main thing wrong with most beautiful girls in this world is that there spoiled little bitc hes. they have been handed everything and anything, and given star quality treatment in their lives. Even the poor, ghetto girls, from poverty, are like this. Their looks get them attention, which is just an attitude adjuster(for the worst) as money can be. Why does being a jerk work? Because like everything else in life, people, not just girls, crave and covet what they can't get and what they, especially, can't control and take for granted. With a jerk, they will always want you, always crave you, and NEVER, EVER take you for granted.

Trust me, if acting like an AFC worked, it would be alot easier. I would be first in line for "AFC" land. I hate having to go the extra mile cause Im as lazy as the next guy. But anything in life worth having always seems to be down the hard path. Just the way it is I guess.

 

[Lifeforce]

AFC is a state of mind, that is very true. Do what the fvck you want as long as you are the man and you get the results you want. That's kind of obvious.

Rules are nothing more than a vast generalization of what works best. Being AFC does work, on some deseprate women. Some women want to experience romance and chivalry and they would kill for being treated and courted in that way. Once rules are understood, they should be broken to fit the kind of girl you'd like to attract. So treating women like **** will work one some of them, but not all, so you are correct in some way. You should adopt the traits that the type of girl you find attractive, find attractive. It's as simple as that.

L|feForc£
--------
"Here you would most likely find a lot of very insightful quotes"

 

[myfriendblu]

Originally posted by Lifeforce
So treating women like **** will work one some of them, but not all, so you are correct in some way. You should adopt the traits that the type of girl you find attractive, find attractive. It's as simple as that.

Life force,
Like a guinea pig in an experiment, I have found that all women, with a very slight change here and there, seem to work and operate under the very same rules. What works for one seems to work for all of them. To be honest, I think most women are alot more similar than people believe. They all tend to react predictably under the same type of situations.

 

[Lifeforce]

Yes of course, and so will men do. That is true. What I mean is that some might enjoy if you slap them in the face and spill their drinks at them and riping their clothes of ontop of a car and fvcking their brains out, while some might just want to cuddle... (mm... soo sweet. ) You should point at their individual weakness of the type of person you are looking for. That will probably get you better results than doing a standard move on everyone.


L|feForc£
--------
"Here you would most likely find a lot of very insightful quotes"

 

[myfriendblu]

Originally posted by Lifeforce
You should point at their individual weakness of the type of person you are looking for. That will probably get you better results than doing a standard move on everyone.


[

I dunno man. I have found that a basic set of rules seem to work for all. Like gravity.

I think its all about understanding the basics. I think what seperates one guy from being a better DJ than another is the ability to better implement basic DJ rules. Its just like basketball. There are only so many ways to dribble a ball and shoot a basket. The people who are the best, and who succeed, are those that stick with the basic ways that work and don't stray from that.

 

[Ronin I]

Re: Re: Player Supreme, Senor Fingers, everyone else...back me up here.

Originally posted by myfriendblu
True, but it is the jerks who get laid.....and the AFC's who do not. I don't go out of my way to be an azzhole, but then again, Im not exactly the most "giving" person in a relationship. I like to run the show, if ya know what I mean. To this very day, it has worked like a charm. I could have wedded probably 7 or 8 girls by now, if not more had i not been such a quick NEXTer Think being a jerk doesn't work? I dunno, but It works like a charm for me.

Bottom line - it all comes down to one simple point. The main thing wrong with most beautiful girls in this world is that there spoiled little bitc hes. they have been handed everything and anything, and given star quality treatment in their lives. Even the poor, ghetto girls, from poverty, are like this. Their looks get them attention, which is just an attitude adjuster(for the worst) as money can be. Why does being a jerk work? Because like everything else in life, people, not just girls, crave and covet what they can't get and what they, especially, can't control and take for granted. With a jerk, they will always want you, always crave you, and NEVER, EVER take you for granted.

Trust me, if acting like an AFC worked, it would be alot easier. I would be first in line for "AFC" land. I hate having to go the extra mile cause Im as lazy as the next guy. But anything in life worth having always seems to be down the hard path. Just the way it is I guess.

Hey Blu,

Can you give some examples of how you act like a "jerk" with women. What are some things that you do (or don't do) that you think put you in this category?

 

[iqqi]

this is going to BLOW YOUR MINDS

i think we would all agree on these opposites:

AFC vs DJ
and
nice guy vs jerk

guess what. a jerk can be(and many times is) an AFC.

and a DJ can be (and usually is) a nice guy.


discuss.

 

[Player_Supreme]

1. The idea of a jerk is a myth. It was created by women about men whom they couldn't control. What your talking about is being an ass**hole. There is a difference. I've posted some of the good qualities of these so called jerks:

1. cant be controlled
2. do not put women on pedistals
3. ect ect ect...see my other post

2. I am not an ass**hole except on this board and my own site...hehehe. I don't mind opening doors for ho's. But I will not bow down to one.

3. As I also posted earlier today as per a convo that I had had earlier:

"A man should be above a woman, and a womans place is below the man" per a female friend who knows the game.

4. As I posted earlier...she dumped this one symp because he put her on a pedistal and it made her think what was wrong with him...

You don't have to be an ass**hole to be a real man. AFC is a state of being....just as being a player or whatever you wanna call it on this site.

AFC's put women on pedistals and worship at her feet. That doesn't mean that they run first to a door to open it...but it's how they put women psychologically above them in any relationship or incounter.

on point Latte

 

[prosemont]

I first posted this almost a year ago in Jan 2003 ...

I open and close all car doors (except when she's getting out of the car, I never go around and open that -- but if she waits until I go around and open it, and this has never happened, if she waits, I would actually do the opposite and stand there until she got out on her own -- I'm being a gentleman, not catering to a heiress -- and you can rest assured that I would comment on it like hey, what the fvck do you think you are, a princess??? --

I open all doors and allow her to go first in all cases except where it requires alpha to go first, and I pull out and push in chairs behind her, and I put her jacket or coat on for her at all times, e.g. after dinner or when leaving, etc., (which also is a great time to kino in straightening her collar and pulling her hair back over the jacket). The jacket thing always is a big hit, I hold it out for her behind her and wait until she puts her arms in and all that -- very impressive and you should try it. The first time it ever happened to me was when an older very prestigious businessman did it for me after a meeting and I went home thinking holy cow that was cool that that guy did that (not in a gay way, btw, not that there's anything wrong with that).

Oh, here's another thing I do and I have no idea if it is appropriate, but women seem to love it -- if at a restaurant, I ask her what she would like and I memorize it and when the waiter/ress comes I order it for her exactly. We'll start with the 1997 whatever cabernet savignon and we'll share the x, y, and z appetizers, then she'll have the filet mignon, medium rare, with the potatoes jubilee, hearts of endives, asparagus tips, and I'll have the blah, blah, blah....

At times and when appropriate, I also in general act like I'm a blue-blooded yankee of solid stock when around her and beyond reproach. At other times, I'm a complete hooligan and a very bad man.

I do these things for a couple reasons -- first it shows her that I know how to act like and be a gentleman and that I know proper etiquette and manners, second it makes her feel special (ahem) and important especially in front of others (although I do these things even when we're alone).

But, the most important reasons I do these things are:
--they counteract the claim that I'm just a rude prick in general when I do other things to fvck with her or treat her like sh!t

--it provides an interesting juxtaposition to the times when I'm being aggressive with her sexually or talking dirty to her or asking her what type of panties she has on, etc., or when I cut someone off on the highway and swear at them. Or when I tie her up with my neckties, stick a sock in her mouth, literally, and fvck her in the ass while calling her my little fvck wh0re. Or when I'm slapping her ass so hard that she's trying to cover it with her hands and I then slap her hands (which hurts like a mofo) until she moves her hands. In all, the contrast becomes that much more interesting. And, she is rendered powerless and weak in both social and sexual situations.

By day I'm conservative in my profession and in my register, demeanor and dress, so that when she comes to visit me at my office and I fvck her on my desk, or I fvck her all night until it's time to get up and go back to work or I party all night, etc., or I take her to a business dinner or event, it is that much more interesting. I can play many roles -- there's a host of different aspects of my personality and personna -- and most women like that very much.

Btw, I act so alpha when with women that they would never dare give me the feminist line. It's just never happened. But, even if I did these things with the biggest bulldyke stranger or acquaintance and they said something, I would respond that I was doing it out of common courtesy, something that they obviously lack since they did not open the door for me.
If they persisted, I would say something like "oh, you're just as rude and unpolished as you appear."

 

[Player_Supreme]

well put prosemont! but they talk about me being long winded...

 

[prosemont]

Originally posted by Player_Supreme
well put prosemont! but they talk about me being long winded...

There's a difference between being long-winded and detailed bro.
Besides, look at my measly post count.

 

[Player_Supreme]

And when have I not been detailed. I state and use back up evidence or other posts to back up my points...but that does add weight to a post.

But I like to be thorough...

What has helped me is that I get PM's all day long from this site about guys with problems, and I've gotten used to having to back up and explain every little detail.

Ok before I start going long winded and off track hehehe....later!

 

[iqqi]

<gasp!!!>

prosemont! i never, never would have guessed......

 

[myfriendblu]

Re: Re: Re: Player Supreme, Senor Fingers, everyone else...back me up here.

Originally posted by Ronin I
Hey Blu,

Can you give some examples of how you act like a "jerk" with women. What are some things that you do (or don't do) that you think put you in this category?

ALRIGHT! your already onto something here....
Its not necessarily what you do...but what you "Don't Do". hehehe, your halfway there man. essentiall,y is all about the basics. I

DON'T
1. Spend alot of money on my GF
2. Spend alot of excessive time with my GF
3. Spend alot of phone time with my girl
4. Let them wear the pants in the relationship
5. Let them get their way. Even just little petty things, you have to step up and say "No"
6. become exclusive with a girl before you have had sex
7. say I love you first.

Things I do
1. I am selfish. I Spend time on myself. My hobbies. My job. Me. I think the first step into any DJ mindset is to start behaving selfishly. In fact, I think thats the biggest advantage the Jerk has. he is usually selfish.
2. Always have someone on the backburner. Just in case. Im always meeting new people.
3. I always make the plans, dictate the relationship, and run the show.

I think, by default, if you start caring for yourself first, and putting YOU before the girl, people will assume your a jerk. Just the way it goes. However, like i said before, the jerk gets tail, the nice guy does not.

 

[prosemont]

Originally posted by Player_Supreme
And when have I not been detailed. I state and use back up evidence or other posts to back up my points...but that does add weight to a post.

But I like to be thorough...

What has helped me is that I get PM's all day long from this site about guys with problems, and I've gotten used to having to back up and explain every little detail.

Ok before I start going long winded and off track hehehe....later!

Hey dude, I was talking about me being detailed and not long-winded, I wasn't talking about you. Peace.

 

[iqqi]

and i must add i now find you very attractive (manners plus authority, very nice.)

boys, i must say learn from prosemont. he has that niceguy/dj thing down pact.

prosemont, though i don't go for that physical abuse sh!t, i still find you sexy and will admire you from afar...

 

[myfriendblu]

Originally posted by Player_Supreme
1. The idea of a jerk is a myth. It was created by women about men whom they couldn't control. What your talking about is being an ass**hole. There is a difference. I've posted some of the good qualities of these so called jerks:

1. cant be controlled
2. do not put women on pedistals
3. ect ect ect...see my other post

2

Exactly. i think the average non DJ type jerk, by default, even though he has the disadvantages of not knowing how to be a DJ, still has an advantage over 90 percent of the population by simply following rule #1 and 2. Thats why you see so many bad boy types get the girl. they have no better DJ skills than the next AFC, yet, its not what they do, its what they DON'T do. they DON'T get controlled. they don't put anyone on a pedistal. So, despite the fact the jerk has no clue about IL, CA's, kino, etc and the rest of the DJ type stuff here, he still has a HUGE advantage over the rest of the population because he luckly happens to avoid alot of the pitfalls that happen to alot of AFC type guys.

 

[jbbrain]

This post relates very much to my post a little earlier on that Tesuque and Player responded to:

I dont think anybody really likes being treated like shyt. Whether youre a girl, guy, dog or sheep (whatver the fvck) and have ANY sort of self respect, you won't tolerate serious disrespect from anybody.

Keep that in mind when you interact with women. The idea that most women respond to being treated like garbage, degraded and disrespected, is a myth (unless she has serious issues...but why would you want to be with a girl like that anyway???) Besides, I honestly think most of the guys here, and maybe in the world, would rather NOT put in the constant effort and reminders to treat girls genuinely badly. This scenario comes to mind:

Jerk (not really, more of an afc), thinking to himself while hes with his lady: "Ok, I was a bit too cuddly and baby talkish this morning when we both woke up..ohh God, she is beautiful..Stop thinking that! Wait, no, I have to put her down in some may so she doesn't get any ideas..."

Thats bullshyt.

In all honestly, we should really be thankful as to what women respond to sexually and emotionally , as it is the same thing we should all strive for within ourselves, for ourselves.

It's not being a "jerk", it's not being a "nice guy". What it is is what we are all put on this earth to be. This site refers to "Him" as a DJ. I like to call him a "Man".

I see you all screaming "Wait, dont stop! What does it mean to be a man exactly???" If you dont really know exactly, sites like these are an amazing starting place.

All of you should try being one one day. It's really really easy and gets you amazing results with women.

 

[jbbrain]

ok, I guess I couldnt help but make a continuation..itll be short though..

To be man: In essence, to be THE PRIZE...

IMO, is what Doc love advises. Keep in mind, I'm NOT his biggest fan.

Confidence: You're a man, she's a woman, deal with it. This means being sexual, making the moves, being assertive, SHOWING her the way.

Challenge: Not seeing her everyday, maybe not talking to her on the phone too much, MAYBE not showing too many of your emotions TOO soon.

Control: Not being supplicative, not being a doormat, bla bla bla. Basically not tolerating any of her BS and being prepared to walk if shyt really hits the fan. Essentially, you look out for yourself as no chick is worth being hurt over.

Now, like I said, these things are the makeup of what makes the man, the DJ, the PRIZE, whatver. Of course, you can probably add a few more, but these make a good starting base.

I think a problem that too many posters here have is that they try to incorporate these "techniques" (thanks Tesuque) or gimmicks, or tricks etc. into thier game thinking that it makes them a MAN. The key thing to remember is that incoroprating these 3 characteristics of a man into your game do not MAKE YOU INTO A MAN. Rather, by BEING A MAN in the first place, you will NATURALLY EXHIBIT THE "QUALITIES"..lets go through them one by one.

Challenge: Being a man you don't become a challenege because you want to peak her interest. Challenge should not really be used as a trick to coerce her into thinkign youre a busy, desired man. Rather, A MAN IS A CHALLENGE because he's ambitious, has many things goign for him, and knows that, although his lady is a priority in his life, it is by no means his ONLY priority.

Control: Being a man, you view yourself as the prize. In other words, you love yourself. Not in the narcissistic way, more in the way that you've realized your self worth, have become acquainted with your inner self, and realize you only deserve the best. That being said, when your woman stops being "the best" or fails to encompass those qualities which you search for in a woman, you don't hesistate to leave. You're always looking out for your own happiness, and anything that comes in the way of that aspiration is seen as a threat to your health and needs to be thrown out.

Confidence: A man is a highly sexual being who isnt afraid to show it. Like its been said countless times before, if you like something, you go for it. Its really that simple. A man lets his desires be known and makes no excuses for them.

The reason why incoroporating these qualities into your game without having reached your "inner dj" through experience, soul searching etc etc. can ultimately jeopardize your success with women and ultimately your self confidence is because it blinds you fom achieving what should be your number 1 goal, especially in a relationship...soon to come