Platonic friendships with married women?

[WestCoaster]

Find someone you see frequently, either at work, class, or a coffee shop.

Ask her to coffee, WHEN she says YES make the date an hour only. DJ mantra: less is more. An hour should do it.

Don't worry about funny. Talk about her first -- women love that. Ask her where she's from, how did she get X job in X town, her hobbies, blah, blah, blah ... women love talking about themselves.

Eye contact, smile, smile, smile and have fun. Don't look desparate but smile (read Allen Thompson's article on this, very good). Accentuate the positive, good women don't like cynics.

Don't put her on a pedestal. Her farts stink, too. She's not a goddess.

When the date is done, do some kind of physical contact, shake hands, shoulder touch, something -- my lack of kino has killed me in the past.

Anyway, I'm no pro, but I've been on a zillion dates, more good ones than bad ones. I used to cash out on the first one (my AFC days), then Starbucks was born and I realized that spending tons of dough on a woman on the first date is stupid. Just break the ice first, worry about everything else later.

Nutshell: Have fun, smile, touch her, talk about HER.

You'll do well ...

 

[CoolRunning]

Here is where the difficulty is. If by some magical cause I had a date tomorrow, I would probably get through it ok. I would be nervous, but I'm sure I could at least not bore her. After all, I don't bore the married women when I play tennis with them and get a snack afterward.

Now, if by some magical cause I didn't have a date, but I did go to a place where the same girl was there a lot and I talked to her, yeah, it would be hard, but I can SEE myself asking her very casually to get coffee sometime.

The real problem is the first one, finding a girl who I can see frequently. I'm not in any classes at the moment. My workplace is extremely male dominated (there are literally <10 women in my entire building and I only see 3 or so regularly and the 3 I see are married). The second real problem is making the initial approach to start talking to her the first time.

Argghgh...

It feels like I am making up excuses for myself.

So how critical is it that I see the girl multiple times??? Is it at all likely that I could see a girl once, talk to her, and end up setting a coffee date?

Also, would you set the date/time for coffee when you make the date, or would you get her # and call her a week later or so and schedule it then?

 

[WestCoaster]

Well, you gotta go where the women are, or find someone you've seen a couple times. Or you could be spontaneous and ask a gal out you've met once ... your odds on landing that date are only OK. Frequency builds up trust.

So find a coffee shop or deli to frequent, something. I'd ask the gal out for coffee but leave the time open so she can't say, "Oh, I can't make it at X time." Ask her what a good time is for her to meet. Make it tough for her to turn you down.

Yep, the key is finding them ... hey, I'm going through that right now as I've decided to not internet date for awhile. I'm going to take some night classes and join a tennis group. But you're right, the key is finding them, that can be tricky. Just takes one to meet.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

COOL: WEST is telling you what I would, but let me add that you need to cross that abyss - you have to attempt before you do. You're in a very precarious position here in that I can see a guy in your situation locking on to the first HB 4 that agrees to go out to to Starbucks with him. You need to put yourself in an experimental frame of mind.

Disengage your emotions from this, it'll helpy you in two ways: First it will help you not to take the MANY rejections you'll inevitably get in the beginnings personally. Take your emotions out of the equation and let it roll off your back while you learn what you can improve on with your next approach. It will also allow you to experience and evaluate for yourself objectively what YOU want in an LTR when you decide it's right for you.

All of this stuff is grounded on there is no failure, only feedback. There are no mistakes, only outcomes. This is one of those sayings that is worthy of writing out on a piece of paper and putting it on your refrigerator with a magnet, you know, sticking it on the mirror in your bathroom until you have it memorized.

Remember, there is no failure, only feedback. That is to say, everything that happens, we can learn something from that will help us to do better next time. There is no failure, only feedback. Thomas Edison took what, ten thousand tries to make an electric light bulb? There is no failure, only feedback. There are no mistakes, there are only outcomes. "D'you know, I made a mistake!" No, you only made a mistake if you failed to learn from it. And we're all capable of learning, in fact it's almost impossible not to learn. Therefore there are no mistakes, there are only outcomes. It might not be the outcome you want but it's the outcome and because you learn from it, in the future you can change that.

Apply this to your Boot Camp exercises and not only in your failed approaches, but more importantly, your successful ones. It's very easy to pick apart your perfomance when you're rejected, but much harder when you wrapped up in the process and experiences of your success.

 

[STR8UP]

Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi
All of this stuff is grounded on there is no failure, only feedback. There are no mistakes, only outcomes. This is one of those sayings that is worthy of writing out on a piece of paper and putting it on your refrigerator with a magnet, you know, sticking it on the mirror in your bathroom until you have it memorized.

Apply this philosophy to women, and you can get laid like a champ. Apply this philosophy to money, and you can be wealthy beyond your wildest dreams. Apply this philosophy to your entire life, and you can have the world in the palm of your hand.

 

[CoolRunning]

So I am trying, I am honestly trying.

Today I was in line at the grocery store, and helped a woman (in her 50's or so) who was struggling to reach the conveyor separator bar. I noticed she only had 2 items, and I had 1. I said

Me: It's times like this that I wish they still had the self check out
Her: What? [wasn't expecting me to talk to her, I think]
Me: It's times like this that I wish they still had the self check out
Her: Oh, my yes. But it's over there, right? *points*
Me: No, they removed it some time ago.
Her: That's too bad.
<silence>

OK, I guess. I tried, at least.

Then, when I was standing in line, I noticed the cashier (woman in 30's) looking at me while she was waiting for someone to sign a check, so I gave her some nice long EC, but I broke away after 1.5 sec or so. During the EC, she said "Hi" and I replied in kind. I then looked her directly in the eyes as she handed me the receipt.

Not too bad. Shouldn't have broken off the EC though. Stupid reflex.

Anyway, it's 7pm Friday night and I'd like to go out and meet people and get experience talking to people, but I have no one to go with. I plan on going to this club in another city alone tomorrow, but I'd like to do something closer to home tonight. Where are all the girls at 7pm Friday? I just want to talk!

Oh, and I'm participating in some guy's bootcamp starting Monday. It's not directed towards "Mature Men" but I don't know if that matters or not?

 

[WestCoaster]

A marathon starts with a single step. Like I said, you have to start somewhere, you started somewhere.

Now and then I go out by myself, bounce around a couple of bars if they have good live music. I try to meet some women, if I don't no biggie. The key is going with no expectations.

Warning: I wouldn't report too much here on your nights out. I went solo by myself once down here, made a few comments on the epxerience and was ripped to shreds just for my comments. I was called judgemental, AFC, everything. Some guy from Seattle called me gay and so forth ... prompted me to leave the site for about a year. It appears those nutballs have left the site, but just thought I'd warn you.

There are a ton of insecure people on this board, so if you want to put up field reports, I'd make them very brief.

As for your stint at the grocery store, nice job. We've all done the "glance away" on eye contact, I still do it now and then. It's how we've been programmed. The key is de-programming and it takes awhile.

Good first step, just keep trying and trying and trying!

 

[CoolRunning]

OK, I will be relatively brief with my field reports.

Tomorrow's goals are to:

- get hair cut (and make small talk with hairdresser)
- buy new shirt and jeans (try to make 3 EC at mall, and talk to 1 random person)
- go to club, talk to one group of people

Do you have suggestions on places I can hang out at alone? I'd go read at a Starbucks or something, but sitting there reading isn't a very good way to meet people...

 

[CoolRunning]

Also, I posted this question on Craiglist about what clubs would be good to go to in my area since I'd only been to a club once before...and someone replied saying she'd show me around...should I take her up?

 

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

I'm very interested in seeing your progress.

Drop us the link so we can read on your success.

Every journey starts with a single footstep.
-Chinese proverb (I think)

the_next_big_thing

 

[WestCoaster]

Yeah, no question about it take that girl up on her offer. Worst case scenario is you met a new person. Best case is you have a tremendous time.

Act like you've been there before, however. You don't need to lie about your dating history, but you don't need to spill the beans either. Just walk with confidence, be glad you're with the woman, have fun and let it roll.

 

[CoolRunning]

[27, WBAFC, no friends, never been on a date]

Tonight was my second night in a club. I went alone. You can read about night #1 here: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95501&highlight=wbafc

I managed to stay in the club for 70 min before getting freaked out and running off. The loud music was a *lot* less disorienting this time, and that's about all I'm going to say about it - you'll notice that I mention the music in my night #1 report about a zillion times. This time, I managed to just block it out.

I arrived at 11:35. There was no line. I told the bouncer "It's freezing balls out here man" but he just grunted at me and nodded at my ID. Then inside it was still cold since it was by the door, so I told the cashier girl "I hope it's warmer over there *nod toward interior*" she diffidently replied "I'm sure it is". Ugh, two 'sets' going poorly so far, but at least I made an effort.

I managed to feel MUCH less awkward standing around by myself this time. I got into the music a little and did some head nods, hip movement, etc. I did sip two beers. I simply could not summon the courage to approach any guys or girls. I did ask a guy the time, lol.

Here are three questions I want to ask you. I am going to be as detailed as possible, so bear with me. When you give advice, please bear in mind I have never kissed a girl let alone even held hands.

#1) I was standing by myself in a corner, just off the dance floor. I was separated from the dance floor by a railing. To the left side of me was another guy just kind of standing. To the right of me was a couple feet of space, and some other people in a group. Behind me was about 4-6 feet of open area along with a small bar for resting drinks. Now, I'm just kind of moving a little to the music, and I feel something tap behind me. I turn my head around and there's a seriously cute girl (I'd say HB8) dancing there. She's looking straight ahead (at my back) and does not look up as I turn my head around. I briefly thought she was with the people to my right, but I don't think she was. I totally did not know what to do, so I turned back around (now she is facing my back again) and started dancing a little more. She's not touching me any more, in fact it was just that one tap which felt like it was done with two hands, but might have just been one. After about 1 minute of this (not knowing if she's behind me or not, since I don't turn around again and she doesn't touch me any more) I get freaked out and kind of jive-walk away. PLEASE ANALYZE THIS SITUATION. Is it possible that a HB8 just came up and started dancing with me (I am not 'hot' but I am tall and relatively 'handsome', and I'm positive that try as I might I was not projecting true alpha body language)? Did she want to dance? What should I have done? (please include exact physical motions or if I should have touched her, where I should have touched her)

#2) Later on, I was standing by myself in much the same place as in #1. I was kind of just moving to the music a little. The dance floor rail makes a corner there. I was on one side of the corner, facing towards the rail. There was this HB7 on the other side of the corner, facing away from it, dancing by herself. I saw her greet some guys who were walking to the bathroom. Over the course of 15 sec or so, she kind of dances over so that she's facing me about a foot away, in between me and the railing. We are now dancing for sure, there is a foot or two between us though. We were like this for 20 sec and I did not look her in the eye or touch her, just kind of tried to dance. Then she kind of eased herself back to where she was and I got freaked and ran off. What was she doing? What did she mean? What should I have done?

#3) Over the course of the night, I saw basically every girl in the place talking to guys, which totally psyched me out. I kind of think to myself, what if I get my ass kicked for going to talk to them? Especially when they are talking to guys right that moment? Maybe they are the boyfriends of the girls? How do you overcome this thinking and seriously, what's the worst that could happen if I go say hi to them?

Thank you very, very much.

 

[GirlCrazy]

I LOVE this forum. If I were to depend on my family for sound advice like this, I'll be forever fvcked. My family is totally 100% absolutely RISK-PHOBIC.

Risk-averse people will always give you the absolute worst advice about anything, and even when you prove them wrong by succeeding, they will still cling to denial. After all, you only succeeded because you were lucky. The excuses are endless about why they won't take risks, but if you look around you in life, those who are successful are risk-takers, period.

I've always been accused of having "more balls than brains", but I take it as a compliment, and have always looked for the same qualities from the women in my life.

Every risk has both a potential reward, and potential consequences for failure. Using the concept of risk management, you can minimize the risk and maximize the reward.

For sarging women, the risk versus reward ratio is extremely favorable. You ask a chica for her number and she either gives it to you or she doesn't. What's the consequences of her saying no? Basically none - low risk, high reward.

Walking into your boss's office, kicking over his trashcan, and demanding a raise or you'll walk, is high risk, but high reward if you pull it off.

Taking risks will reward you plenty in the long run, but the downside is that even risk-takers tend to get risk-averse later in life when they have more to lose. The trick is to keep putting it all on the table, no matter how much you have.

 

[MightyMate]

It can only and as a sex relatio. Sooner or later.