Platonic friendships with married women?

[CoolRunning]

[27, no friends, never been on a date -- recovering WBAFC]

In trying to become more social, Ive discovered that I share several common interests with a few of the women at work. They are married, a couple with kids, one of them 15 yrs older than me. They are mostly cute and in good shape for their age.

Now, I've been asked to do stuff with them. Like play some sports, go to a movie we're both interested in, etc. There has been absolutely zero conversational implication of more than friends, which is fine and dandy for me since I work with them and I like my job.

What Im wondering is if it's considered okay to play tennis with a married woman, or go to a movie with her, or have lunch or something. And what are some do's and don'ts about having such a friendship?

I really do want to be friends with them, as I need to make friends and we do get along. Plus I think it will help me be more comfortable around women which is good.

Lastly, one of the women (the one 15 yrs older) has done something a little funny. When we're talking in my cube, sometimes if I'm trying to show her something on my computer she'll lean in real close to the point where her legs are leaning against mine, arm on mine, even shoulders. Kind of makes me uncomfortable since I don't know what it means?? (she's from another culture - Greece - so maybe they have different conventions)

Anyway any ideas on how to nurture these friendships and what to watch out for would be helpful.

P.S. For some reason the guys in my work place are all very hard to get to know, who knows why.

 

[BigDawg]

Just a thought, CR, but when you get to know your coworkers well enough, you might start inquiring if they have any single/available friends...

 

[flexion_]

As you long as you go out as a group NOT 1-on-1 then sure go for it.

 

[phoneproblems]

been there, done that. don't kid yourself, these are dates. it either ends two ways:

1. you want her
2. she wants you

if you are in bad shape with women, then do it and get the experience but once you are comfortable move on to single girls

 

[WestCoaster]

Waste of time and energy. If you're 27 and never been on a date, you REALLY need to focus on getting dates with single women. That I think you know.

Go through the boot camp. Flirtatious married women can be danger for AFCs, RAFCs, or whatever acronym you have. In college a married woman really flirted with me a lot, didn't wear a ring, etc., I found out after I was hot for her that she was married ... luckily I didn't do anything. But I was a royal AFC at the time and any female attention got me going.

Read the DJ Bible and ask out as many SINGLE women as possible. Unless the married woman can get you dates with single women, she's a waste of time.

Oh, bottom line:

1. No movie with a married woman, no dinner, nothing that looks more than chummy ... period.

2. Rule two: Stay away from separated women. Dated two of them ... they always go back to the old schlong, Mr. Hubby. It's a bad, old schlong, but it's a familiar one. Known hell to unknown heavens.

3. Single women ... remember that, single women. Lots of them out there, you just have to find them.

 

[CoolRunning]

Guys I appreciate your advice, but think about where I'm coming from. I have literally never been on a date before. I think I may have gone years without talking to a girl who wasn't selling something, and I am not exaggerating here I am completely serious.

Starting small is, I believe, a requirement for me. I'm very unlikely to pursue what would already be an uncomfortable relationship (having sex with a married coworker) since having sex or dating anyone would be uncomfortable enough for me.

Does that make sense?

I honestly believe that spending time just AROUND women, talking to them as people rather than an alien race, will be good for me, and this is an easy way to do it.

I just worry a bit about propriety and of course the one woman who kind of touches me as I mentioned.

 

[Warlord]

Try not to set yourself up to be in that situation where a taken woman is heavily flirting with you. Dunno, the only female friends I have are women I am not attracted to at all or represent my own likes/dislikes.

 

[WestCoaster]

The first step if you haven't ever dated anyone is to not hang around with married women and hope it gets better, but to put yourself out there and ask someone out.

I know it's tough, but women are just as nervous as you are. Most men are surprised at this.

I met this gal recently at a museum, I chatted her up, got her number. She sends me an e-mail saying she was talking too much because she was nervous. One, she wasn't talking too much; two, I thought I was the nervous one. Wrongo!

Women are just as nervous about this whole dating game as men are. Hanging around married women could slightly enhance social skills; a better option is to do the boot camp and go out and get dates with single women.

Start small, like coffee ... learn to talk, and go from there.

I know you can do it and I don't think you need to take a cicuritous route to get there!

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Originally posted by CoolRunning
Guys I appreciate your advice, but think about where I'm coming from. I have literally never been on a date before.

Then lets get down to brass tacks here; 'Hanging around' with single women is always preferable to 'hanging around' with another man's wife. It's a pretty basic fact that you'll have a better chance with an unmarried woman than with a married one. Got it?

If you're 27 and have never had a date, wasting even more time playing 'friends' with married women isn't going to help you learn how to attract, interact and develop rapport with single women.

The reason you see befriending (such as that is) these women as preferable is because they are a buffer for your fear of risking to go out, meet single women and be rejected by them. It's far more comfortable for you to play the pseudo-friend to "off-limits" married women in the hopes that maybe they'll fix you up with the right person. You have to stop creating for yourself these comfotable little contrivances and rationales, and get the hell out in the feild and sarge!

You need to learn that Rejection is better than Regret. At 27, your're just now coming to realize regret because you're petrified of rejection. Stop it. There is no failure, there are only missed opportunities and results. You are missing countless opportunities to learn by wondering if it's OK to be "hanging out" with married women. You know it's not and you're looking to the guys on this forum to confirm it for you. I for one wont confirm for you what you already know.

 

[Skel]

Go get single women. Married woman only want you for attention and nothing else. You are being afc. Dont do that.

 

[legolas]

Noone is hard to get to know, it must be something you're doing, the way you're acting or dressing or whatnot that is prompting your coworkers to put up barriers. Find this out, and once you change it, they'll approach you, or at least put down their barriers and become more approachable.

 

[WestCoaster]

You have to start somewhere and sometime!

Look, go out with an HB 1 or 2 just to get a freaking date. Man, if you wake up 27 going on 30 and you've never had a date, you know and I know there's a problem. Go out and ask out a chunky girl at a cafe and get a date, any date. Who cares about looks at this point? You need to get a date and dates. Period.

You have to start somewhere. Sports analogy ... Some of my history ... Freshman year high school ... went out for cross country. I was second to the last guy on the team, very weak and not much endurance. After getting my doors blown off in a junior varsity race, I sat on the grass wondering if this was for me. One of the star runners in our region sees me and says, "How's it going." I say, "Sh-tty, I suck."

He says, "Really? You're a freshman, right? Everyone sucks as a freshman -- I sucked as a freshman."

But the time I was a senior I was one of the top guys on the team and I went on to run in college. -- I had to START SOMEWHERE.

Freshman year of college, first race against some nationally ranked teams -- got my doors blown off. Laying on the grass I tell our senior star runner, "I suck, not sure I can run in college."

Senior: "You're right where I was when I was a frosh." -- Went on to do well as a collegiate runner. I HAD TO START SOMEWHERE!

First women I dated in high school -- average. First girlfriend frosh year of college -- average, probably a freaking 4. Senior year I was spinning plates with 8's and 9's. I HAD TO START SOMEWHERE.

There comes a time when the ball has to get rolling somewhere, sometime -- and that's NOT with married chicks. Sheesh, go down to Subway sandwiches and ask out the chunky clerk and get a date -- who knows, she might be fun in the sack -- or not, who cares?

Just get a date, any date. Build from there. Quit analyzing and get a date. Paralysis by analysis ... you're killing yourself.

Forget married women, they're taking it up the you know what tonight from hubby or the guy they're cheating on -- and that ain't you.

Get the ball rolling or you'll make Comic Book Guy on the Simpsons look like Brad Pitt.

 

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

listen to westcoaster and Rollo. They are preaching the gospel.

First off, I had zero social skills when I came here a couple years ago. Fine, I had few male friends and a couple female friends but overall I wasn't happy with what I got.

Now, I got an amazing girlfriend.

I did read the bible and did most of the DJ Bootcamp. Amazing ain't it?

about a month or so after starting the bootcamp my social skills improved to that of some of the masters on this forum. Am I still learning? hell yes.

Just get out there. Social skills comes with practice.

Stay with it and don't have a negative attitude.

The_Next_Big_Thing

 

[CoolRunning]

Well, you guys are coming across loud and clear. Your point about using married women as kind of a security blanket instead of confronting my real issues pissed me off and embarrassed me, which surprised me and made me think that it's 100% correct.

I have no idea how to ask out a girl though. I can talk to sales girls okay, but it's a LONG way from "busy in here tonight, huh" to "let's get coffee some time" and I don't have any clue how to bridge that gap.

Also, given where I am skill wise, what is the likelihood that I could get laid in a week or two?

 

[WestCoaster]

Cart before horse

If you're worrying about getting laid, you won't. Man, you need to get a DATE first, sheesh. Will you work on that?!

Honestly? Women don't give a rat's a$$ on your "technique" of conversing and asking them out. They want to be asked out, period. You're analyzing. Chat up a gal at a cafe, after a few times of getting to know her, say, "Let's get coffee sometime." Don't say, "Do you want to" (I used to do that), act like she's going to, say, "Let's get coffee sometime."

If she says no, say something smart-a$$ like, what's the matter, you don't put fluids in your body? You a freaking camel? Next_Big_Thing is the mater of the quick quip, listen to him, too.

Don't worry about delivery, approach, whatever, just ask someone out, ANYONE.

Geting laid is somethig later, don't worry about that. If you're incredibly desparate there, get an escort or something ... your problems aren't physical, they're mental.

Ask an HB2 out and get a freaking date.

 

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

ah, westcoaster did bring up a point that I forgot to mention in my above post and a question for you.

First off, for bridging the gap read the bible because it will give you an idea of what to say. Don't follow it like a mantra but it will give you ideas.

How is your joking skills?
What is your humor style? Don't say being a fool or "acting like an idiot" because that will have to be changed.

Also what do you want in your life. Write every little quote at what you want your dream life to be. make these your goals of the week, month, year, or life.

Then write down exactly where you think you want to be in a year, 5 years, 10, years, 20 years, and 50 years. Make precisly what you want. Now follow this up and complete these goals.

The reason I ask is that if you answer these questions you can start to look at what you are lacking and work at getting these things to improve YOUR quality of life.

Work on your inner game so your outer game will flourish without all these tricks of the trade.

i'm going to show you a post by another poster who was twenty-six and never had a date.

Here this guy was in the same boat as you not to long ago.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57066

the_next_big_thing

 

[CoolRunning]

Re: Cart before horse

Originally posted by WestCoaster
If you're worrying about getting laid, you won't. Man, you need to get a DATE first, sheesh. Will you work on that?!

Honestly? Women don't give a rat's a$$ on your "technique" of conversing and asking them out. They want to be asked out, period. You're analyzing. Chat up a gal at a cafe, after a few times of getting to know her, say, "Let's get coffee sometime." Don't say, "Do you want to" (I used to do that), act like she's going to, say, "Let's get coffee sometime."

So here's a problem, how the heck do I do "after a few times of getting to know her"? I mean, she and I would have to be there at the same time right? Seriously, what are the chances of that? Or did you mean the clerk or waitress?

Anyway, I see few girls during my usual week, and fewer still that I've seen before. Should I try to 'get coffee' the first time I've met them?

Don't worry about delivery, approach, whatever, just ask someone out, ANYONE.

I have one prospect, there is this girl at a restaurant I go to about once a week. She's a waitress there. It's a Chinese restaurant, and she doesn't speak English all that well, so we haven't really said much to eachother. I think she tries to be nice and always asks about work "Are you done for the day?". But she is kind of shy and doesn't talk a lot, or else I really bore her or something, she only answers with one or two words when I ask her something. She is pretty cute. Should I ask her to get coffee even with a possible language barrier? Also, if she declines I would be pretty embarrassed to go back, and it might get back to people at work, who go there a lot too (sometimes with me). I would say she is a HB6.

Ask an HB2 out and get a freaking date.

One problem is I'm not sure my rating system corresponds to others'. How would I figure out if I'm calibrated the same as you guys? Or is it all subjective, and HB2 would be a girl that I'm really just not attracted to?

How is your joking skills?
What is your humor style? Don't say being a fool or "acting like an idiot" because that will have to be changed.

I'm not great at joking, but I can be funny. My humor style is making sarcastic, nerdy, wisecracks. That's probably not good right? How would I develop a humor style that girls like?

Work on your inner game so your outer game will flourish without all these tricks of the trade.

I'm definitely doing this too. In the last two months I've,
- started working out
- got 2 haircuts
- started acquiring new clothes & dressing better
- picked up a sport
- started chatting to people at random places more
- went to a club for the first time (alone), my experiences detailed in http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95501

But I'm getting frustrated, not only at not having success with girls, but also that now that I actually want to do stuff with people, I don['t have any friends to do it with. It's very frustrating. Also, since I started working out, I've come to realize that I have a pretty hot body, and I am also a ton hornier. This is a contributing factor in my frustration.

I will read the post you linked to.

 

[WestCoaster]

HB 2 is a figure of speech, a useless figure, I just used it as an example. Don't worry about attraction, sexuality, anything but GETTING A DATE.

Right now the key is the breakthrough. Yes, find a woman who is at the same place every week, chat her up a few times, ask her out. Doesn't matter how you ask her out, doesn't matter if she's not cute or whatever. This is about getting a DATE, period. Plus, I've dated lots of women where I knew I wasn't going to be their boyfriend, I just needed to get some at-bats, i.e. swings at the plate, i.e. practice! Practice, practice, practice!!

Don't worry about a second date with the gal, don't worry about a first kiss, getting laid, any of that sh-t.

Just get A DATE. You're 27 and never had one, something is wrong there and it's time to right that wrong.

If you get shot down, ask out another gal, if you get shot down ask out another.

Michael Jordan said he's taken something like 300 game-winning shots in his lifetime and missed more than half of them. He's failed numerous times, and he just keeps firing. I'll find the quote.

Just get the date, don't analyze, just get the date, get it, do it. She could be tall, short, heavy, skinny ... get the date.

 

[WestCoaster]

Jordan quote

Always turn a negative situation into a positive situation.

Leadership: Michael Jordan Quote:

I have missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot... and missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why... I succeed.

 

[CoolRunning]

OK, got it, just GET A DATE. Some more questions then. First, how do I find a girl who is at the same place a lot? I go places occasionally and I don't know of any except the cashiers or things. Can I just ask her the first time I meet her?

Also, what are the mechanics of a date? I say "let's meet for coffee some time, give me your number" and then I call her the week after or something and set a time and date and we both show up, talk, then go our separate ways? How long will it typically last, an hour? Do I have to be funny, I'm not sure I can be funny for an hour? I could talk to someone for an hour but it would mostly be about stuff like pastimes, where they're from, things like that.

Anyway this is all putting the cart before the horse I still have to (1) talk to a girl (2) see her again, talk to her again, (3) ask her out. I think #2 will be hard.