Philadelphia Eagles running back LeSean McCoy left one of the worst tips

[Bible_Belt]

How do you know he doesn't actually get laid?

I knew the guy in high school. He was chick repellent then, too.

Let's see, aside from the Comic-cons, Dragon-cons, and whatever other dork festival is going on, his life is mostly telling facebook what he had for dinner, or all about his weekend yard work. He writes books, but they are manuals for some obscure role-playing computer games I don't understand.

There is also the occasional post where he mentions his "crippling loneliness" and "going to bed alone once again." He's posted stats about reduced life expectancies for people who die alone. I think he got a female friend to agree to let him fly to visit her once, but then she cancelled and he whined about it for days.

I think the guy is fascinating, because he's the epitome of how not to get laid. Other than having money, everything about his life is pvssy repellant. And I don't know specifically that he's a bad tipper, but I have noticed that trait in other guys who are hopeless with women.

 

[zekko]

This argument has already been countered in this thread, ad nauseum.

To summarize:

1. restaurant owners can try to add in a gratuity and remove tips - and some have already started doing so - but it will result in a corresponding loss of business as customers refuse to allow themselves to be continually gouged by the restaurant industry and its employees

2. historically the state and federal governments have tried to statutorily remove tipping but for several reasons they have been unable to do so

3. these reasons include things such as the fact that overall, servers can count on getting more money from kindhearted customers giving them tips than they can on their employers to give them an increase in wages

What argument? I'm not the one trying to get rid of tipping. All I'm saying is that if you get rid of tips, the owners will have to pay the waiters more, and the cost for the food will go up. It's not rocket science.

 

[zekko]

You're basically arguing that owners should increase their prices because this will lead to an increase in revenue and help offset the increased wages they have to pay.

I never said anything even remotely resembling that. I love when people put words in my mouth, which seems to happen a lot around here. I said IF they got rid of tipping, the owners would have to pay the waiters more. Or are you denying that?

However, I am NOT saying they should get rid of tipping, so therefore I'm not saying that the owners SHOULD increase their prices. I don't have a problem with the current system of tipping. Is it the best possible system? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but I'm not looking to change it.

 

[zekko]

It's easy why you think posters here "put words" in your mouth as you don't even seem to know what your own argument is.

I didn't come here to argue. I entered this thread to stick up for working stiffs.

This, Zekko, is why you are incorrect in your assumption that restaurant owners will just increase the price of their meals to offset the cost of tips they will have to pay. They know that even slight increases in the advertised price of their meals will result in a huge and possibly bankruptcy-inducing loss of business.

Okay, let's be clear on what your position is, after all, I am just ignorant hill folk so I need the clarification:

You're saying that if we could wave a magic wand and get rid of tipping, you admit that the owners would have to pay their waiters more. HOWEVER, they will not pass that expense increase on to their customers, because the increased price will deter customers. Right?

Well, maybe that's true and maybe it isn't. All I know is that if I go out to a restaurant where the meal will cost $50, then I know before I go to that restaurant that I will plan on spending $60 (food + 20% tip). So Danger's math makes sense to me. It seems to me that when people plan a night out, they will take tipping into account for their nightly expenses.

I also notice there is no mention of tips in your link on elasticity, so I'm not sure how relevant it is to this discussion.

 

[Stagger Lee]

But even if its true that increasing the menu prices to pay the servers without tipping would drastically reduce demand ( Not that I think that's necessarily the case especially if all restaurants did and the tip was removed), then to make up for the higher cost the restaurants could just automatically add 15% gratuity at the end of the bill like some do, or cut portion sizes, lower food quality etc.

The bottom line is restaurants would make up for their higher costs somewhere and the customer would be paying for it one way or another.

The argument that if restaurants increased menu prices to replace tipping it would drop demand is kind of arguing the case for restaurants to use tips.

I'm not really arguing that tipping shouldn't be done away, just that if it was a server is working for tips then they should be tipped for service, and if restaurants did do away with tipping they would pass most of their extra costs one way or another on to the consumer and probably total server pay would be cut.

My problem with tipping is I think it's unfair to men as women most likely get tipped more, and that tipping expectation amounts are getting excessive especially in light of a percentage of the high menu prices. I think around 7-10% for mediocre to average service and 10-15% tops for good to exceptional service is more than sufficient. Now it seems the expectation is 15%-25% for average to good service. But my point is if you go into a restaurant especially as a wealthy/famous person as it stands with tipping you should tip the service at least 15%. There would have to be a very damn good reason you would leave less than 10%, something calling for complaining to the management.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Yes, according to restaurant owners and the wait staff tips should remain in place lmao!

This is what I have been saying all along:

Well at least some restaurant owners aren't saying that. I don't know about servers, but I'd bet many would rather just be paid decently by their employer or maybe what they average with tips and not work for tips.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/more-restaurants-adopting-no-tipping-policy/

Your argument really seems to be that servers should be paid less than what they are getting through tipping. Often times you get what you pay for, as you might just end up with Burger King level of employee serving at the fine dining spots.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Key phrase there.....


Advertised menu price ALONE.

So you are just talking about advertising and it's impact and not PRICING and it's impact. WHOLE different ball of wax than elasticity cupcake.


Remember, elasticity is the responsiveness to changes in price. Not changes in advertising. And when the net price changes, and customers are fully aware of it so they can act on it......then your argument is worthless.

In other words, your argument rests on subterfuge and tricks of advertising, not on the elasticity of demand itself.

Yeah that's what I think, you would have to consider the total price and the total market and what the competition is doing to determine effects on demand. Just focusing on menu price alone and not considering total price and the rest of the market (price, tipping) probably doesn't tell you much.

 

[Bible_Belt]

The delivery charge that major pizza chains have added is a good example of squeezing as much money as possible away from the employees to keep advertised prices low. Delivery charges kill tips, because the customer feels like they are paying twice. Drivers have at least filed lawsuits, which is what is behind the prominent "Any deliver charge is not a tip" disclaimer.

So what used to be a job that paid double the minimum wage, sometimes triple at peak hours, now pays just about minimum wage. And the quality of the driver is now at a minimum as a result. The kid who delivers to my house is special, to put it nicely. He gets lost a lot. But I still tip him because I feel sorry for him, and I admire handicapped people who manage to hold jobs. Hell, it's so easy now to make up some bs about having epilepsy or depression to get a monthly welfare check that I admire anyone with a job, period.

 

[zekko]

The delivery charge that major pizza chains have added is a good example of squeezing as much money as possible away from the employees to keep advertised prices low.

I almost always go get my pizza rather than have it delivered, unless I'm very busy or feeling particularly sluggish. It seems more cost effective to pick it up myself (I figure in the cost of the tip), plus it seems lazy not to.

I've never thought much about the pizza business, it makes me curious. Do they resent people who come get carryout instead of tipping drivers? Do the drivers have the sole job of driving, or do they ever help out in the pizza place (taking orders or even making pizzas)?

 

[Bible_Belt]

Do they resent people who come get carryout instead of tipping drivers?

No, not at all. That's nothing compared to stiffing the driver on a delivery.

I worked for Domino's. There were some drivers who only worked the busy 5-8pm shift, and they didn't do anything but deliver. The ones I knew in Georgia often had respectable day jobs, but they were hooked on the $15-20/hr they could make working the short evening shift. There would also be a driver shift that stayed til close, and they expected you to do dishes and take out trash when it was slow.

The way the store was set up, only the manager made the pizza, so none of the rest of us knew how. Hand-tossing pizza dough is not that easy unless you've done it a lot. I've made enough sorry-looking pizzas for myself to eat to know that. One day we got a 100-pizza order from a school. In the middle of the stress of making all them, my boss said "F this" and walked out. So we had to call the school back to tell them none of us knew how to make pizza and they had to order somewhere else.