Personality is mostly "looks"

[Stagger Lee]

Just a question. How does arguing about how important looks are across 3 pages add anything to your life?

Let's say you discover the truth that looks aren't actually that important. Are you then going to kick back with a 6 pack of beer every night, stop going to the gym and disregard personal hygiene?

Personality (read confidence, humor and being interesting) is at least on par with physical appearance.

Pointless thread is pointless.

By that measure how does anything people post on here add anything to your life? Everything could be called pointless. It's pretty hypocritical to argue against someone for making an argument. Define personality and confidence. If you actually read and understand what I'm saying, I'm putting my definition of confidence and personality/game, the very thing you claim is so important.

The reason Inner Game is preached so much because it has an effect on your affect. Your mental state influences your facial expressions, your mannerisms and your body language. If you feel anxious and depressed it will almost certainly manifest in your body language. On the other hand, if you are genuinely in a positive frame of mind, your body language will improve.

Rather than robotically trying to imitate the body language of an upbeat, confident person, it's better to be that upbeat and positive person; the body language/mannerisms etc. will follow automatically. Of course, it doesn't hurt to study your body language, facial expressions etc. and to make a conscious effort to improve these things. Actors do these things.

First off you take it for granted that anyone in PUA is actually preaching anything that actually helps "inner game" more than it hurts. They just pay lip service to everything, ie "get in state, bro. Don't be a chode. Be confident". Second, it's not really necessarily true that a person has an attractive or effective affect just because they feel confident or vice versa. When it comes to picking up women, most men are acting to varying degrees and to varying effectiveness. Yes, actors (and naturals) do have effective nonverbals but good actors aren't that common or that easy to become. You seem to just take everything for granted.

 

[Skyy.]

Looks absolutely influence someone's perception of your personality. All DJ bullsh!t aside, many men are more tolerable of HB9's bad behavior than the Plain Jane's. Not surprisingly, it works vice versa.

 

[Lexington]

First off you take it for granted that anyone in PUA is actually preaching anything that actually helps "inner game" more than it hurts. They just pay lip service to everything, ie "get in state, bro. Don't be a chode. Be confident".

You haven't been reading obviously. There are lots of videos and articles that provide detailed explanations about how to get into state. Heck there's even many posts and videos about mindfulness meditation and Zen philosophy. So it's quite a bit more elaborate "get in state, bro."

Second, it's not really necessarily true that a person has an attractive or effective affect just because they feel confident or vice versa.

Many things aren't necessarily true. It's not necessarily true that if one attempts to lift weights, he will get jacked. It's not necessarily true that if one works hard, he will succeed. But there is evidence that body language and mannerisms do have an impact on a person's level of attractiveness. And it's easier to exhibit that attractive body language and those mannerisms when you are in a congruent mental state.

When it comes to picking up women, most men are acting to varying degrees and to varying effectiveness.

And the ultimate aim is to not be acting anymore; to make confidence, being sociable etc. part of your native mental state.

Yes, actors (and naturals) do have effective nonverbals but good actors aren't that common or that easy to become.

It might not be easy to become an A list Hollywood actor but it's not that difficult to improve your nonverbals.

You seem to just take everything for granted.

And you seem to be a defeatist who is intent on using "looks" as an excuse just like feminists claim they were "discriminated against by the patriarchy;" just like students who don't get good grades claim "they're not smart enough;" just like fat people claim that "diets don't work for me."

Believe it or not, if you set your mind to something, you are determined to achieve it and you persist in the face of setbacks, you can achieve a great deal.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

The reason men always debate this is because for females, male attractiveness is more of a ****tail of looks, status, game, etc. It's not as cut-and-dry as the physical attractiveness of females, which is probably 80-90% of why you will approach or continue gaming a girl. (Her personality WILL mitigate her looks but not nearly as much as a man's.)

Most men confuse attraction with arousal because they ask women what they find attractive in a man and then base their view of looks on it rather than how she behaves.

It's important to remember that women's sexual strategy is pluralistic when you consider how important looks are to women. When she's in the proliferative phase of her menstrual cycle (just prior to ovulation) her proclivity will be arousal by, and a seeking of, more masculine, more physically focused traits in men. So if you were to ask her what she finds "attractive" in a man during this phase you'll likely get more visceral answers and you'll likely see her gravitate towards better looking men.

Ask her the same question in the downcycle of her menstruation, and you'll get answers like personality, charm, warmth, sensitivity, etc. and any number of characteristics that would make it seem like her focus is on more intrinsic qualities.

 

[Stagger Lee]

You haven't been reading obviously. There are lots of videos and articles that provide detailed explanations about how to get into state. Heck there's even many posts and videos about mindfulness meditation and Zen philosophy. So it's quite a bit more elaborate "get in state, bro."

But is there really any evidence that they even know what they're talking about, or that their advice is actionable and effective?

Many things aren't necessarily true. It's not necessarily true that if one attempts to lift weights, he will get jacked. It's not necessarily true that if one works hard, he will succeed. But there is evidence that body language and mannerisms do have an impact on a person's level of attractiveness. And it's easier to exhibit that attractive body language and those mannerisms when you are in a congruent mental state.

Yes it's easier to be a natural if you're a natural. But my point was that I don't believe "inner game" and mental state is all that connected to outer appearance. Outer appearance is what matters in attracting women. A person's mental state is all one big guess. Also there's some research that suggests adopting certain body language affects your mood.

And the ultimate aim is to not be acting anymore; to make confidence, being sociable etc. part of your native mental state.

Yes that's the goal commonly stated in PUA however lofty. Some people might just want to get some lays or a GF and don't want to change their personality. I think to get there you need postive feedback though.

It might not be easy to become an A list Hollywood actor but it's not that difficult to improve your nonverbals.

It could be for some guys especially if they don't know what they need to do or are getting bad and contradictory advice. There's a lot of that out there.

And you seem to be a defeatist who is intent on using "looks" as an excuse just like feminists claim they were "discriminated against by the patriarchy;" just like students who don't get good grades claim "they're not smart enough;" just like fat people claim that "diets don't work for me."

Believe it or not, if you set your mind to something, you are determined to achieve it and you persist in the face of setbacks, you can achieve a great deal.

I agree with putting in effort and perservering, but there's reality and being a realist. Chasing the "right" mental state if it's not the issue is a waste. How is blaming it all on confidence and game not an excuse too, just more self-serving? I think it's a little extreme comparing a guy saying that women are spoiled and looks-ist to delusional feminist. I don't see it as defeatist at all to say women are able to be hypergamous. Not everything is a guy's fault or within his control.

 

[Lexington]

But is there really any evidence that they even know what they're talking about, or that their advice is actionable and effective?

What are you looking for? A randomized control trial? You can always go and field test the material for yourself. In my personal experience, learning about Game/Pickup has substantially improved my success with women. Many here would state the same.

Now perhaps it didn't work for you, but your experience is by no means universal.

Yes it's easier to be a natural if you're a natural. But my point was that I don't believe "inner game" and mental state is all that connected to outer appearance.

If you're feeling depressed, do you think there will be many outer manifestations of your mood? Even if you tried to hide it, chances are many people would notice. Likewise, when people are furious, it is very difficult for people not to show these emotions in some way.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that if one actually feels energetic and happy, these things will manifest in his body language.

Outer appearance is what matters in attracting women.

And things like body language, posture, voice tonality and many other appearance factors are affected by one's mental state.

A person's mental state is all one big guess.

Not really. If you see a guy glaring right at you with eyes wide open, his pupils are dilated, he is wearing a frown and breathing rapidly and also in a very upright posture I think his mental state wouldn't be a big guess at all.

Also there's some research that suggests adopting certain body language affects your mood.

There is also research that suggests that mood affects body language. In fact when doing an evaluation of a patient's mental status and mood, doctors examine the patient's body language

I do agree that body language affects mental state and vice versa.

Yes that's the goal commonly stated in PUA however lofty.

Didn't your Mom ever tell you to aim high?

Some people might just want to get some lays or a GF and don't want to change their personality.

OK.

I think to get there you need postive feedback though.

Hence the emphasis on constantly seeking out reference experiences. That has to be one of the most commonly used terms in the PUA lingo.

It could be for some guys especially if they don't know what they need to do or are getting bad and contradictory advice. There's a lot of that out there.

Look for advice on bodybuilding online. There is plenty of bad and contradictory advice. Go to any gym and you'll see guys doing many different exercises with poor form that could cause them injury.

There's bad medical advice being doled out. There are a million flawed fad diets. There are a lot of terrible scientific hypotheses. There's plenty of awful investment advice.

When learning about Game/Pickup you have to use critical thinking just as you do with just about any other subject.

I agree with putting in effort and perservering, but there's reality and being a realist. Chasing the "right" mental state if it's not the issue is a waste.

You're right, if that's not the issue, find what the issue is and work on it. Picking up hot chicks isn't easy but it's also not the hardest thing in the world either. People accomplish far more difficult tasks every day. If there is a will, there is a way. We're not talking about winning the gold medal in 100M sprint at the Olympics here.....

How is blaming it all on confidence and game not an excuse too, just more self-serving?

For starters the guy who is blaming it on lack of Game is at least not throwing his hands up and giving it up. He is continuing to persist. Besides, no one here is saying that looks/appearances don't matter. They do. But Game, mental state, confidence etc. are also significant factors. You don't seem to think so.

I think it's a little extreme comparing a guy saying that women are spoiled and looks-ist to delusional feminist.

Well here you are basically saying "Well, there's nothing much I can do because women are spoiled and just care about looks anyway."

It sounds awfully like a feminist saying "Well, there's nothing much I can do because men are sexist and will just dismiss women anyway."

Meanwhile I personally know female neurosurgeons, corporate executives and even fighter pilots.

I think that if you're determined to bang 8s and 9s, you can find a way (and I don't mean paying). It might not happen overnight. It might take a lot of hard work. It might take a lot of rejection, but it can happen.

I don't see it as defeatist at all to say women are able to be hypergamous. Not everything is a guy's fault or within his control.

Yes women are hypergamous. Not everything is in a guy's control. But a guy can control his actions and his attitudes. He can choose to keep calibrating his approaches and the different parts of his Game. He can choose to brush off rejection. He can choose to work out and eat healthy. He can choose to practice being more sociable. He can choose to dress well. He can choose to be well read.

Honestly, if I strapped a bomb to you and told you I would remotely detonate it if you didn't pickup and HB8 tonight in Manhattan, do you think you could do it?

Chances are, you would pull out all the stops. You would relentlessly approach. You wouldn't give a fvck what people thought. You would waste no time. If one bar wasn't working, you'd hop to the next. You would use every bit of knowledge you learned by reading about Pickup, Game and psychology. You could do 100 approaches in a night if the circumstances were that dire.

Do you think with 100 approaches and going all out, you could pull an HB8? Or perhaps you'd just give up and say "that's OK, just detonate the bomb. It's futile anyway."