Persistence landed me a 2nd date...

[WastelandWarrior]

Persistence landed me a 2nd date with a very attractive young HB9. She's barely 23, I'm almost 29.

So I went out with HB9 on a first date 9 days ago (Monday). Everything went very very well with the 2 of us having tons in common and we both held up our ends of a great conversation. This HB9 had me laughing a few times (hearty laughs, too). I kept good eye contact throughout & started the kino within the first 5 minutes. We had a couple make out sessions toward the end (at my house).

I hardly talk about women to anyone, especially family but I commented to my lil sis how well I thought everything went. "Best 1st date I ever had" is what I told her. I genuinely believe this HB9 adores me... I just KNOW this girl is hooked on me... it went too well for any other conclusion. I even commented to a few my friends how I thought I'd probably end up introducing this HB9 to them all.

This HB9 fell off the face of the planet after she left my house that night. I sent a text the next morning (Tuesday)- "I had a good time last night. I'll call you soon." I never got any response back.

I called her 2 days later (Thursday), got no answer and left a message "hey this is WW call me back."

I got a text about 15 minutes later saying she's busy/can't talk. I sent back a text and said call back when your not "busy." Apparently she was very "busy" for a while because I never heard anything back.

So yesterday (Tuesday), against my better judgement, I called her in the evening and got no answer. I left a C & F message. "Hey this is WW, your message says 'ill call you back if you leave a message' but I left a message a few days ago and am now leaving a second one... you owe me 2 now." Then I deleted her number from my phone.


Well she called tonight kinda late and after all the fluff my first serious question was "were you in the hospital or something?" She laughed and asked what I meant and then I explained why I thought she was crazy for not calling ME back sooner and that she'd been demoted to the back of the line. ****y & funny is an amazing weapon.

She explained that she wanted to make sure I wasn't too quick to give up or give in. I reiterated why I think (know) I am a good catch and she agreed & even threw in a few compliments of her own. After a little more fluff, we had a nice long sex conversation and we agreed we'd see each other for a second date on either Sunday or Monday. I generally don't make specific plans, I just do whatever the day decides to bring. But seriously, if I don't hear from her, she's gone.

I'm anxious to see how this is going to work out.


What can be learned from this? I'd love to read comments.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

I would recommend you not make vague plans like that, specially if you are only talking to her every 10 days, etc. You need to seal the deal and make definite plans and have her stick to them. Tell her, ok, sunday at ____. If she sounds vague and non-comital, then tell her you want to meet her when she can make it for sure.

Doesn't matter what you generally do. You already know she is high risk for vagueness and flakyness. Girls always like to make plans way ahead, and even if they have nothing to do, a lot of times they'll say they are busy and turn it around and make you believe that had you called earlier, she would have not made plans, etc.

What is the agenda? Is she supposed to call you? What did you agree on?

 

[Phyzzle]

Gangster is right. Half my posts here are b!tching people out for not asking girls out. "May I call you on Sunday, and then ask you out?" Screw that.

Basically, persistence didn't land you squat, yet. It's pretty clear she's not going to answer her phone Sunday, but then she'll be bored on Wednesday and txt you then . . .

I'd try to call Saturday afternoon (catch her off guard) and make some definite plans.

I generally don't make specific plans, I just do whatever the day decides to bring.

You know, chicks aren't too fond of guys calling up and saying, "So, what do you wanna do?" Be a leader.

 

[Obsidian]

don't tolerate disrespect or low interest

 

[Snow Plowman]

Quick question: Were you leading the interaction on the first date?

It doesn't seem like this girl got sucked into your reality and took on your frame. Her going on a day2 and then not returning your phone calls. For me personally that is unacceptable.

My verdict is she flakes, and if she doesn't I don't think you're going to get the lay, but that's just me.

Tell me why didn't you push for the lay the first date? You said you were making out which was good, but why just stop it there unless logistics were bad.

 

[Boschy]

Judge her by her actions, not what she says. Keep us in the loop.

 

[WastelandWarrior]

Sorry I didn't elaborate more in the original post...

I've known this girl for about 12-15 years. Not buddy buddy by any means, but my family and her family have been hanging out together for years and years. I only see her once in a great while. She knew me during my afc days and I'm POSITIVE she'd heard some stories. And there was some really really really lame afc crap I pulled back in the day.

The 3 last times I saw her were-
1) When I was 20 and she not quite 15, I paid no attention to her.
2) When I went to a party I was 23 and she just turned 18... we were both with other people.
3) About 3 months back at a party we were at with our families. She had a b/f with her and I didn't give it a second thought.

Well, a few weeks back I ran into her cousin after I got off work and she seemed pissed off at me for some reason. She asks me "why haven't you called my cousin." Well, I got the number from the cousin on a Friday, called this HB9 up on Tuesday and set up a date for the following Monday.

When I said I don't make plans and that I go where the day takes me, I meant I do what I feel like doing when I feel like doing it. I'm not home very often as I work 6 days a week and go out pretty much every night after work. (I woke up at 8, left the house at 9, at work by 10, at home at 10, go out at 10:30, in bed by 2). The world is mine.

Why not push the lay? - cause it was a first date and 1st date sex is a HUGE red flag in my book. Plus I genuinely like her. She could be relationship material.
Was I leading the interaction? - the majority of the time. I had her laughing pretty hard, I initiated everything. I pulled away a few times while we were making out and she didn't let me get far at all.
Why not settle on a day for the 2nd date immediately? - Don't know when we'll have coinciding free time due to work schedules & personal constraints.

I'm an excellent judge of character. I could be wrong, but I'm telling you that when this girl says something, thats the way it happens.

Its going to happen.

 

[backbreaker]

dude.... are you that hard up for ***** that you are running to the local dumpster and literarly diging though trash trying to find it?

you are gaming women you have known for that long?

you have accomplished nothing but making out with a woman desperate enough to give a guy she has no interest in a date.


SEX!!!

nothing less is accectable. don't push it..I see whre you are coming from in that regard.

As far as your persistance....give the woman the gift of missing you.

 

[WastelandWarrior]

Quick update...

Today is Friday, I last talked to her on Wednesday. I haven't heard anything back and I'm not about to hold my breath for her. If she had even a little interest she'd have called or at least texted to say so. Even if was to say "I'm really busy, but I'll call later."

Her number is now permanently deleted... if she calls back for a sex buddy, I'll be down, but nothing more.

I'm just glad I have a few other leads.

NEXT

 

[Boschy]

Thanks for keeping us informed.

Just a note about women's hormones and fertility. When they ovulate, they are usually very horny. This is not the aggressive type of male horny, but a receptive kind of horny. For a few days in the month, they will be up for it, in heat. This is just nature at work.

If she was "making out" with you on one night, and now she's gone silent, perhaps you missed your chance. "The egg was dropping", as I tell friends.

Now she's on the rag and in a foul mood. Pure speculation, but you guys have to remember that women's behaviour is often governed by hormones and cycles and chemicals and cramps and depression and who knows what else.

All you can do is go by the behaviour....no call back, assume the worst and continue with the grand miracle that is Project WastelandWarrior.

 

[Obsidian]

1st date sex is a HUGE red flag in my book. Plus I genuinely like her. She could be relationship material.

well said. Imo, sex on the first date is a really bad way to get into a relationship. This is mainly judging by what others have told me, tho, I haven't actually tried it myself.

if she's being flaky, tho, NEXT. There's no point in dating a low-interest woman.

Boschy's advice sounds like the stuff Destini9 writes on her site. Even if that's the explanation for her flaky behavior, tho, her overall attraction level for you isn't high enough to keep dating. If she's gonna like you for 1-2 weeks out of every month, that's just weak. You need someone who will like you 98+% of the time.

 

[Public_eNemy]

I think you are playing her games, and that's not good for you

 

[Nighthawk]

You may not like sex on the first date (personally I have never found it a reliable indication of character, and me want sex so me go for it) but if you are using it as any kind of gauge, presumably you should escalate and give her the opportunity to say no. Otherwise what have you proved?

 

[Obsidian]

that doesn't really make sense; what have you proved by making her reject your sexual advance?

unless you just want sex, as you said

But I'm not just talking about character. I think most girls who have sex on the first date will think of it as a quick fling, not a developing LTR. Sex on the first date sets up a non-relationship frame of mind. Having sex with someone when you first meet them is not a good way to start a relationship. Some of you DJs may be good players, but you really seem a bit immature and just lack common sense.

 

[Snow Plowman]

well said. Imo, sex on the first date is a really bad way to get into a relationship. This is mainly judging by what others have told me, tho, I haven't actually tried it myself.

It's funny because the quicker you have sex with a girl is the quicker you can actually start a relationship. Have you ever noticed most guys who are in a relationship don't have sex with there girl but yet there in a LTR. This mind boggles me because now sex gets built up as some big thing.

SEX is another form of fun to me, it isn't no big serious thing. Sex is like vibing were both having a good time pleasuring each other.

Also the reason why I say have sex quickly if you want a relationship is because pillow talk is the time where she is very emotional and if you've done all your qualification properly, then pillow talk is the time to actually put all that qualification together by building yourself the girl you want.

that doesn't really make sense; what have you proved by making her reject your sexual advance?

unless you just want sex, as you said

I see where your coming from...but one thing

Why do you care if she rejects your sexual advances it's not like she is rejecting you as if you did an approach, because a "No" means "not yet", she just isn't there yet to do that, whether it's kissing or foreplay, etc.

Many guys are scared to get rejected when it's not even a real rejection. It takes me 2-3 tries before I even get a kiss sometimes.

But I'm not just talking about character. I think most girls who have sex on the first date will think of it as a quick fling, not a developing LTR. Sex on the first date sets up a non-relationship frame of mind. Having sex with someone when you first meet them is not a good way to start a relationship. Some of you DJs may be good players, but you really seem a bit immature and just lack common sense.

It's all about how you frame it. I seriously think Qualification is the most important part of pickup because this really dictates how the girl is around you. I can see why you think this...because most guys have sex and the first thing there thinking of is leaving. How can you leave when she is technically emotionally vulnerable. She is going to backwards rationalize as to why she even slept with you. Instead if you stayed and catered to her emotions during pillow talk, you could've framed it as...

You two met, hit it off very well, and it just so happened you were both attracted to each other, all the emotions and sexual tension caused you two to have hot sex.

Another reason why I think guys don't really get sex on the first date is because they play too much games...waiting 3 days to call a chick when you get her #? That's assuming she doesn't forget about you. It always amazed me at the certain bizarre guidelines I've come across.

But yea just my input...

 

[Gangster Of Love]

It's funny because the quicker you have sex with a girl is the quicker you can actually start a relationship. Have you ever noticed most guys who are in a relationship don't have sex with there girl but yet there in a LTR. This mind boggles me because now sex gets built up as some big thing.

SEX is another form of fun to me, it isn't no big serious thing. Sex is like vibing were both having a good time pleasuring each other.

Also the reason why I say have sex quickly if you want a relationship is because pillow talk is the time where she is very emotional and if you've done all your qualification properly, then pillow talk is the time to actually put all that qualification together by building yourself the girl you want.



I see where your coming from...but one thing

Why do you care if she rejects your sexual advances it's not like she is rejecting you as if you did an approach, because a "No" means "not yet", she just isn't there yet to do that, whether it's kissing or foreplay, etc.

Many guys are scared to get rejected when it's not even a real rejection. It takes me 2-3 tries before I even get a kiss sometimes.



It's all about how you frame it. I seriously think Qualification is the most important part of pickup because this really dictates how the girl is around you. I can see why you think this...because most guys have sex and the first thing there thinking of is leaving. How can you leave when she is technically emotionally vulnerable. She is going to backwards rationalize as to why she even slept with you. Instead if you stayed and catered to her emotions during pillow talk, you could've framed it as...

You two met, hit it off very well, and it just so happened you were both attracted to each other, all the emotions and sexual tension caused you two to have hot sex.

Another reason why I think guys don't really get sex on the first date is because they play too much games...waiting 3 days to call a chick when you get her #? That's assuming she doesn't forget about you. It always amazed me at the certain bizarre guidelines I've come across.

But yea just my input...

Listen to what this man is saying. Forget about all your programmed ideas on how things should be, and take it from somebody with enough experience on what works, and how it really is. If you are too concerned about what the ideal time should be to have sex, and judging women on what and when they put out, you'll grow very old and frustrated 'cause they won't want to mate with you.

We have way to many cats here *****ing and complaining how some broad is holding out, and making them go crazy, then they turn around and justify it by saying that the behaviour makes them take her serious for a LTR. To bottom line this for you, the earlier you bed her, the earlier you start regaining or gaining the control, because you've taken away their trump card.

 

[backbreaker]

It's funny because the quicker you have sex with a girl is the quicker you can actually start a relationship. Have you ever noticed most guys who are in a relationship don't have sex with there girl but yet there in a LTR. This mind boggles me because now sex gets built up as some big thing.

SEX is another form of fun to me, it isn't no big serious thing. Sex is like vibing were both having a good time pleasuring each other.

Also the reason why I say have sex quickly if you want a relationship is because pillow talk is the time where she is very emotional and if you've done all your qualification properly, then pillow talk is the time to actually put all that qualification together by building yourself the girl you want.



I see where your coming from...but one thing

Why do you care if she rejects your sexual advances it's not like she is rejecting you as if you did an approach, because a "No" means "not yet", she just isn't there yet to do that, whether it's kissing or foreplay, etc.

Many guys are scared to get rejected when it's not even a real rejection. It takes me 2-3 tries before I even get a kiss sometimes.



It's all about how you frame it. I seriously think Qualification is the most important part of pickup because this really dictates how the girl is around you. I can see why you think this...because most guys have sex and the first thing there thinking of is leaving. How can you leave when she is technically emotionally vulnerable. She is going to backwards rationalize as to why she even slept with you. Instead if you stayed and catered to her emotions during pillow talk, you could've framed it as...

You two met, hit it off very well, and it just so happened you were both attracted to each other, all the emotions and sexual tension caused you two to have hot sex.

Another reason why I think guys don't really get sex on the first date is because they play too much games...waiting 3 days to call a chick when you get her #? That's assuming she doesn't forget about you. It always amazed me at the certain bizarre guidelines I've come across.

But yea just my input...

couldn't have said it better myself. the best relationships I have had since I hae been grown.. all but 1 I had sex on the first date. that one time I coudln't get it up, and had sex the next night.

the best relationships are when two parties are equally attracted to each other.

with that in mind.. what do you do withs omeone you can't keep your hands off of?

nuff said

sex is hwo grown people were ment to "Play". some people have xbox's, ps3's..PVSSY

Also the reason why I say have sex quickly if you want a relationship is because pillow talk

a woman who has sex with me and expects to have a 2 hour conversation afterwards is in for a rude awakingin.. I go DEAD to sleep... the best sex is taxing

You have to learn if a woman is rejecting yoru sexual advances because of Anti Slut Defense or if she just isn't attracted to you. if it's the later.. you need to move on.

 

[Obsidian]

Have you ever noticed most guys who are in a relationship don't have sex with there girl but yet there in a LTR.

Umm, it's called traditional morality. I would call it Christian morality, but pretty much all other religions believe in the same thing.

And no, the majority of guys in LTRs do have sex (eventually) outside of marriage, judging by the people I've come across. Most of em don't do it on the first date, tho.

SEX is another form of fun to me, it isn't no big serious thing.

yeah, obviously

backbreaker, it's hard for me to argue with you because you are more succesful with women (if you can call hors women) than I am. But at the same time, how many of these "ladies" you've come across have you really gotten into LTRs with? Just over the weekend you were complaining about how horish and low-quality most the girls are that you find.

 

[Boschy]

if she's being flaky, tho, NEXT. There's no point in dating a low-interest woman.

Boschy's advice sounds like the stuff Destini9 writes on her site. Even if that's the explanation for her flaky behavior, tho, her overall attraction level for you isn't high enough to keep dating. If she's gonna like you for 1-2 weeks out of every month, that's just weak. You need someone who will like you 98+% of the time.

Low interest level is a given in this situation. However, I think there are two types of IL:

1. Emotional interest level.
2. Sexual interest level.

A mixture of one or the other or both could be at play. However if she has not gotten back in contact yet, assume both are lacking.

Still, if you want her, call her up and pretend nothing at all has been an issue and just be enthusiastic/high energy. Flirt and up her interest level on the phone, then set a meeting time. If she flakes or refuses, then reconsider and walk away knowing at least you tried and you played it cool.