Overapplication of "Kill the desperation"

[Fender]

This is one of the greatest "beginner" misunderstandings of seduction.

A newbie to the community goes on Double Your Dating and sees the words "Don't be a wuss. Don't shower her with attention. Sit back."

Then, he comes to sosuave.com and reads a post entitled "Kill the Desperation" by a highly repected gentleman named Pook.

He then reads all this theory about girls liking what they cannot have, and the thrill of the chase, etc.etc.

Armed with all this newfound "knowledge," our newbie friend goes out into the bar, into the gym, into his workplace, or wherever he hopes to find girls and proceeds to....

Do nothing.

"But they don't want all that attention. Mr. Deangelo said so! So if I ignore her, she'll...magically come to me..."

I don't know if this kind of thinking is just another excuse to do nothing (and thus, protect the ego from rejection), or just very very bad judgement. Either way, we all know that unless you look like Brad Pitt, or have hundred dollar bills flyin' out your pockets, its highly unlikely a girl will find you attractive and directly approach you.

Assuming that the problem is just a misunderstanding...killing the desperation doesn't mean sitting there, doing nothing and IGNORING THE GIRL.

ARG! I'm getting angry now...very angry...:cuss:

Why?!?! Because I myself have made the very same mistake. IGNORING a wonderful girl because I thought it would make her attracted to me. Silly thinking now that I look back but I didn't know it at the time. And right now, as I am typing this, one of my friends is ignoring a VERY attracted, pretty, good quality girl because he thinks it'll make her more attracted. IDIOT! She's already attracted to you, you fool! Make a godamn move!

So what does killing the desperation mean? It means not NEEDING the girl. That's it. Nothing more. It doesn't mean

IGNORE the girl.
or
Giver her the COLD SHOULDER
or
Playing "I'm too cool for school"

For Christ sake...the number of (already attracted) girls lost, simply because DJ's were "over-killing the desperation"...makes me wanna cry.

However, I understand why this type of mistake would be so frequently made. It seemed like a godsend- the message seems to be "Do nothing and ye shall recieve." Although thats not the message Pook originally intended, our weak ego's (fearful of rejection), twisted his words to protect ourselves from pain. It's the ultimate protection mechanism.

We don't wanna be rejected and thus, we do nothing. And we justify this wussy behaviour by saying "Pook told me to do this! Deangelo told me to do this! It's proven by psychology!"

WAKE THE PHUCK UP!!!

Nothing will happen unless you take action. Go up to her! Talk to her! Grab her boobs! I don't CARE! Whatever you do, it'll be better than standing there with your hands over your balls.

Take action! Even if it means being SLIGHTLY desperate.

 

[applaya]

Mr. Deangelo should rewrite his book. First off asking for email as opposed to a phone number is retarded. second he goes off on his ****ey and funny way too much. i once found myself following his advice so much i was flat out insulting girls and thought they liked it. he should clarify more in his ebook not to insult and focus more on being a gentleman than a bad boy. sure some woman will like a "bad boy" some woman like a boy who will beat her ass all the time too. that's not how a guy should behave and he should focus more on how to treat a lady right, and teasing her sometimes. you can't be C&F all the time, despite what his stupid ebook and newsletters say. it just won't work

 

[Marlimus]

I'm adding this post to my personal library, and nominate it for the Don Juan Bible. Who seconds the nomination?

 

[fonderboy]

second he goes off on his ****ey and funny way too much. i once found myself following his advice so much i was flat out insulting girls and thought they liked it.

****y and funny does not mean insult them. Insulting them is negging them.

****y and funny means, talking yourself up in a funny way. Let me give you an example. The other day, I was doing one of those word-searches with a girl since class was boring. She found something before me, and I said, "Oh pft, I saw that long ago, I was just letting you get it first so you wouldn't feel bad" and she started cracking up. Notice I did not insult her at all. (Remember, though, that most of communication is done through body language and tonality. You have to have that, too.)

 

[check_mate_kid_uk]

****y and funny does not mean insult them. Insulting them is negging them.

But insulting them is not negging! Insulting is going to make the girl hate you.

 

[applaya]

i'm not sayin it's bad. i'm sayin he should stress that more in his book

 

[Capitol39]

Hey, I really like this post.

I admit when I was first starting out that I ignored many cute girls that showed strong signs of interest because I thought it would make them like me more. Those poor girls were trying so hard to get my attention and get their point across, so to speak, and then they finally gave up.

Now as for the neg hits... Yeah, I really think a better term than "neg hit" would be "teasing". The term neg hit sounds, well, negative. I could see how newbies might mistake it for insulting the girl. On the other hand, we all know what teasing is because we did it to the neighborhood girls when we were kids. Teasing has good/fun connotations, *fun* being the key word. Now, I'm not saying you should go up to a HB10 and say "You're a stupid head" and run away. You need to adjust the teasing so that it's more on an adult level. And don't over do it, or it just gets annoying.

 

[I'm Joe Dirt]

****y And Funny isn't always about insulting, but sometimes can be something somewhat negative I suppose. In general though its ****Y, meaning full of yourself, and FUNNY meaning you do it in a funny way that's obviously funny.

Hence the name ****Y + FUNNY.

One of the ****y Funny things I like to do is if a girl is trying to show off with something like "hey look I got this to work!" I reply with "WOW! Now you're ALMOST as cool as I am!"

It's not really insulting, and it makes me look like I'm full of myself, and the way I say it plus the context makes it funny. Ta-da ****y Funny. She has to be laughing, indicating that its funny, in order for it to qualify as ****y and funny. If she isn't laughing you are doing something totally wrong.

Besides, you gotta calibrate with this stuff. This isn't like Mortal Kombat where you punch in some buttons and do a combo and it works everytime in every situation on everyone. Every technique and theory is like a tool in your toolbox. You have a toolbox full of various tools and you pick out the ones that work best for the situation you're currently in. That's how it works.

Picture ****y & Funny like a hammer, and say being a Romantic Hero/Gentelman as a screwdriver. If the situation you are in looks like a philips head screw on a fragile plastic box, you aren't going to HAMMER it in by whipping out the ****y Funny hammer, you're going to gently screw it in with your Romantic Hero/Gentelman tool.

The problem newbies really have, therefore, is that they aren't good enough at deciding what is the right tool for the job, so they misuse tools and overuse certain tools. They will eventually learn the way if they stick with it, because by observing what works and what doesn't they'll learn how to calibrate and pick out the right tools. That's why experience is so important. Only through experience will you know what is right for what situation.



As far as not giving girls attention, the idea is not to smother them. You obviously have to initate contact, but then lean back. Don't be the one who calls everytime, call once or twice, and have her call next few times. Don't try to see her or talk to her 24 hours a day. Don't act needy, don't turn your life upside down for her or build your life around her schedule.

That's what David DeAngelo means. And if you're in a public setting don't hover always over her. Give her some attention, then flirt with someone else or whatever. The goal is to show that you are not intimidated, nor are you impressed by her, and also to show that you don't NEED her.

 

[Jamo]

Joseph Matthews explains this well in his ebook. There is a difference between "passive disinterest" and "active disinterest". The idea is when approaching a HB is not to "telegraph" sexual interest.

 

[Fender]

Hm, looks like you guys are slightly confused.

Negging and C&F are two totally different things which serve two different purposes. Admittedly, I myself got confused between the two and started treating them as the same thing until I read the "Venusian Handbook." (Which is true to the source- Mystery's the man who coined the word "Neg")

A Neg is a "Backhanded insult." It lowers her value, makes her self aware and slightly embarrassed but the Neg SEEMS unintentional on your part. It is IMPLIED, not explicit. Example:

Explicit: I hate your fake nails

Implied: Are those nails real? No? Oh....(continue with conversation).

It is in no way whatsoever meant to be Funny. It is 100% serious because your aim with the Neg is to make her self-aware and lower her value. If you make it Funny, then it loses its power.

C&F on the other hand is meant to be lighthearted flirting. She isn't taking whatever your saying SERIOUSLY- its all good fun. But theres always a subtle message behind C&F that you're better than her, she's lucky to be with you, etc. If you say something 'subtle' often enough, then she'll start to believe it no matter how stupid the idea is.

The biggest problem with mixing a neg and C&F up is the timing...

You only EVER use a Neg in the first 10 minutes of a conversation to lower a girls B*tch Shield. And even if you do, only on HB7's or above. Heres a general guideline on the Max. number of times you should Neg a girl based on her looks:

HB 7-8: 2 negs max.
HB9-10: 4 negs max.

For anyone below an HB7, don't even BOTHER to Neg. For newbies who mix up Neg's with C&F, they fire Neg's out like shotgun pellets for hours on end. That'll only piss off the girl.

C&F on the other hand can be used frequently at any time you please (within reason of course). But I personally prefer to C&F sparingly. It's just not my character.

Anyways, after all that tech talk and tactics, I would like to end this post by saying that I advise against using Neg's. Lowering a girls value to make yourself better in comparison is just weak. I just wanted to highlight the differences between negs and C&F so DJ's won't have to suffer from accidentally negging at the wrong times.

I think I'll go on to write a warning guide for DJ's on dangerous missaplication of Seduction principles. Confusion runs rampant around here. Too much information, which makes it easy to get confused and muddled.

G'luck guys!

p.s. Thanks marlimus for your nomination, but it would be cool if we all made a little warning guide of all confusions/ missaplications of DJ tactics and put THAT in the bible instead. Wanna help?

 

[shiningshadow]

I've always thought negs weren't teasing. Negs should be serious ("Nice nails, are they real? No?") and teasing is obvious ("Nice hair. How do you dye the roots like that?")