Over-training?

[shock]

I have a set, but rotating work schedule. I give myself off from the gym the days I work. However, I am afraid I am over training. What you guys think? Heres a 2 week Example.

Mon - Chest, Tris, Shoulders
Tues - Legs, Abs
Wed - Work, NO GYM
Thurs - Bis, Back
Fri - Chest, Tris, Shoulders
Sat - Work, NO GYM
Sun - Legs, Abs
Mon - Bis, Back
Tues - Work, NO GYM
Wed - Chest, Tris, Shoulders
Thurs - Legs, Abs
Fri - Work, NO GYM
Sat - Bis, Back
Sun - Chest, Tris, Shoulders

This results in a bodypart(s) being worked with alternating 3 and 4 days off in between. Is this okay??

 

[Rampage1]

depends on whether or not YOU can take that frequency or not. Some could do well but real 'hardgainers' would need more rest. it probably would be best to get a little more space between workouts and only train once a week. for ex: mon tues and thursday

 

[shock]

how will i know if i am overtraining though? i enjoy being at at gym everyday... be tough not to go. with my schedule, would i benefit better isolating each day to one bodypart?

 

[Warboss Alex]

would i benefit better isolating each day to one bodypart?

if you want to be fit and get a pump every time, but you're not interested in strength or growth that much, you can do that. otherwise I wouldn't train every day. if I did, it would be VERY low volume and I wouldn't go all out every day, that's for sure.

 

[MrS]

In 14 days you have 4 off days, no chance you can overtrain.

 

[shaunuk]

that might be overtraining for me, but I'm not sure because I've never tried it. But whether it is for you, no one can really tell you because we're not you.

If you wanna try it..go for it. If you lifts aren't progressing nearly everytime, you're overtraining and it wont get you anywhere.

btw why couldn't you just do 3days a week and 3days cardio or something if you have to be in the gym

 

[Fuglydude]

It depends a lot on your diet, natural recovery ability, how much sleep you get, stress levels, supplementation, how intensely you work out, the % of weights you're doing, exercise selection, etc. You're the best judge of how much your body can tolerate.

Personally I only lift 6-8 times in a 2 week period. I don't do cardio except for the occasional conditioning day where I do more crossfit types of stuff.

 

[shock]

Okay, how about this:

monday- Chest/tris/shoulders

tues- Legs/abs

Wed- Work/OFF GYM

Thurs - Bis/Back

Fri - OFF GYM

Sat - Work/OFF GYM

Sun - chest/tris/shoulders

Mon - Legs/ABS

Tue - Work/ OFF GYM

Wed - Bis/Back


Basically Chest/Tris/shoulders and Legs/ABS will always be together in 2 workouts, 2 days. The next set of 2 days off will always be Bis/Back and an off day. This will suffice my need to "be in the gym" and also allow a constant 5 days rest between each workout. This will also eliminate doing two upper body workouts in 2 days, which happens on my shedule now. Ex. chest/tris/shoulders on day 1, and bi's/back on day 2.

I would certainly consider myself a "hardgainer", so I hope this provides ample rest and time to focus on sleep and diet. What you guys think??

 

[Warboss Alex]

but real 'hardgainers'

I would certainly consider myself a "hardgainer"

Please keep that term off these boards. On the "way misused/way overused/cop-out/bullsh!t/useless terms in lifting circles" scale it ranks almost as high as 'stabiliser muscles'.

 

[shock]

Please keep that term off these boards. On the "way misused/way overused/cop-out/bullsh!t/useless terms in lifting circles" scale it ranks almost as high as 'stabiliser muscles'.

Pardon my mis-understanding and probable naievity to the term. I see your point, though. Dedication through proper training and eating will overcome the basis from which this word is often used....which is my reason for being here and furthermore reason for my question.

Alex, in your opinion is my suggested routine worth a damn, or should I figure something else out?? Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks man

 

[Warboss Alex]

Pardon my mis-understanding and probable naievity to the term. I see your point, though. Dedication through proper training and eating will overcome the basis from which this word is often used....which is my reason for being here and furthermore reason for my question.

Alex, in your opinion is my suggested routine worth a damn, or should I figure something else out?? Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks man

Sorry, didn't mean to come off as a jerk. It's just for every one guy who truly has sucky genetics for building muscle, digesting food and being healthy in general there's at least two dozen others who claim they are 'hardgainers' because they do routines out of men's health and try to build strength on egg whites and ricecakes, ya know?

Not only does it undermine and insult the guys who REALLY have trouble gaining, it just becomes a cop out for people who, at the end of the day, don't train hard or eat enough. I mean in some cases you'll get guys actually turning to steroids when they barely eat 2k calories a day.

It wasn't anything personal against you, it's just a major 'buzzword' in the fitness industry which is all about buzzwords (Matt K said it best) and serves absolutely nothing except to give people an excuse to justify the fact they don't try hard, and to give the supps industry an excuse (like they need one) to produce 'hardgainer supplements' which are just as worthless as their usual ones.

Anyway..

Your scheduling actually looks fairly good. If you do swap legs and chest around you get more time between leg and back workouts which is good. Course now everything is in a 6 day cycle (you do chest monday then again on sunday) but I don't see how that'd be a disaster. If you find it hard recovering simply make it a 7 day cycle.

What do you actually do on your leg/back/chest days?

 

[shaunuk]

yeah that's fine mate, as long as for example your chest isn't sore from the last cheat workout etc, no probs.

like Alex said, what are you doing on these days tho, that's more important really

 

[shock]

Leg/AB day

Squats
Leg Press
Leg Extension
Leg Curl
Calf Raise

Weghted Crunchies
Leg Lifts



Chest/Tri/Shoulder day

Bench
Inclline Bench
Incline Flyes

Shoulder Press
Shrugs
Upright Rows

Skulls
Pulll Downs

*Burnout with 3 sets of dips to failure, or 3 sets of pushups (Diamond, mid, and wide)



Bi/Back Day

Wide Grip Pulls
Chins
Bent Over Rows
Deads

BB Curl
Alt DB Curl (standing or incline)
21's




I'm totally open to suggestion. Off hand I can tell you I def need to start doing stiff legged deads, jus not very flexible at all.

 

[Warboss Alex]

You have no business doing all those lifts and burn outs and gawd knows what else, especially if you believe yourself to be a hardgainer.

Honestly, if you think you have recovery issues, I'd do a squat/bench/deadlift variation on your leg/chest/back days, hit those hard and MAYBE do an accessory exercise or two. Get the heavy work in (which is going to be responsible for 99% of your gains) and don't add needless extra work which is only going to add to your recovery time.

 

[shaunuk]

seriously man there's no need to do lots of useless stuff on top, just do this man..

no one really knows if you're a hardgainer as of yet, who knows...you don't need any 'burnout' type stuff yet mate, just do something simple like this..

monday
---
Rows 3x6
DB curls 3x10
squats 2x5, 1x20
leg curls 2x10
calf raises 2x15

wednesday
---
incline bench 2x5
flat DB bench 3x8
DB shoulder press 2x8
pushdowns 2x10

friday
---
deadlifts 2x5
rows 2x6
pulldowns 2x8
some curls

just do something simple mate, it doesnt have to be fancy. You could even cut some sets out of that if you're not recovering very well.

 

[shock]

I feel like I put a stigma on the "hardgainer" term... I think as Alex pointed out, the term is mis-used and wastefully thrown around. I think that term is easy for someone like myself (skinny, high metabolism) to use. In retrospect though, I have made a lot of progress and am slowly getting my diet in tune. I dont think I have the knowlege or time in lifting to label myself as such, so lets assume I am not a hardgainer, but more inexperienced than anything and slowly realizing the time and dediction necessary to progress.

I dont feel as if I am having recovery issues, I simply wanted to know if my current routine is over training, and could be leading to that. Hopefully that clears things up and gets this a bit more aimed in the right direction.

seriously man there's no need to do lots of useless stuff on top, just do this man..

no one really knows if you're a hardgainer as of yet, who knows...you don't need any 'burnout' type stuff yet mate, just do something simple like this..

monday
---
Rows 3x6
DB curls 3x10
squats 2x5, 1x20
leg curls 2x10
calf raises 2x15

wednesday
---
incline bench 2x5
flat DB bench 3x8
DB shoulder press 2x8
pushdowns 2x10

friday
---
deadlifts 2x5
rows 2x6
pulldowns 2x8
some curls

just do something simple mate, it doesnt have to be fancy. You could even cut some sets out of that if you're not recovering very well.

Shanuk, I like the proposed routine.. I guess I am a bit confused though. My current routine includes 3-4 worksets for each excercise. I am lifting pretty heavy... max reps is 8, and I shoot for 1-3 good reps on my last. I see some of your excerices include doing only 2 sets of 6-8 reps?? I was under the understanding that those last sets (1-3 reps) were necessary to ensure 100% IIB muscle fiber involvement and ultimate strengh gains. I Think maybe I'm a bit in the wrong, may just need a brief explanation of your logic so I'm on the right track.

 

[Quiksilver]

Assuming your intensity is 100% and you're giving your all each rep:

3-5 reps = strength development
6-8 reps = power development
9-12 reps = hypertrophy

We're putting you on a strength-based routine.

You don't need to 'ensure' anything, as long as you are slapping more weight on the bar each time you go to the gym.

If you go to failure on every single movement in the gym, you'll burn your CNS out real quick and gains will be hard to come by.

Post up your diet.

 

[shock]

Post up your diet.

Here is todays intake:

Breakfast
5 Whole Eggs
1 Potato
some veggies
1 Cup Oats
Yogurt
1 Scoop Whey
Glass of Milk

Meal 2 (Pre-Workout Shake)
1 scoop Whey
2.5g Creatine (PhosphagenHP w/ detrose)
1 cup Oats
yogurt

Meal 3 (Post Workout)
2 Scoops whey
2.5g Creatine
1 cup oats
yogurt

Meal 4 (1 hour after workout)
huge salad w/
1 chicken breast
cheese
ceasear dressing
croutons
PBJ Sandwhich (3 slices whole weat bread)
glass of milk

Meal 5
1 can tuna
2 pieces whole weat bread
1 cup apple sauce
glass of milk

meal 6
whole weat pasta w/ omega-3
ground beef
spaghetti sauce
2 slices whole wheat bread
salad
glass of milk




I did some research and looked at rippoes routine. I think I am going to that. I am finding out about the fundamentals of sticking to compounds... thanks for leading me in the right direction. My only question and needed modifcation with ripptoes is applying it to my schedule. This is what I came up with... instead every other day it'd have to be every 2 days.

mon - workout A
tues - OFF
wed - OFF
thurs - workout B
fri - OFF
sat - OFF
sun - workout A
mon - OFF
tues - OFF
wed - workout B
thurs - OFF
fri - OFF
sat - workout A
sun - OFF
mon - OFF


This will suffice correct, assuming I stick to ripptoes exact routine?

 

[shaunuk]

Yeah sure, do it like that if you want. BTW how much do you weigh? Also think you might need some more protein in there.

 

[shaunuk]

and about your question, the logic behind the routine I posted is...

You go balls out on your main lifts (bench variation, squat, deadlift), i.e. lift heavy, stimulating strength and muscle gains. Then you do your assistance work at higher reps, helping your main lifts along whilst also adding a bit of volume in, i.e. for size gains. The result assuming good diet..you gain strength and size