Orbiters, or 70% man, have you been one

[jophil28]

I had always been under the assumption that Friday/Saturday weren't nights you should be dating on until things were well past the "does she have IL" stage?

Where did you get that idea? Probably from the PUA self-appointed experts who want to sell you their latest report entitled "Shocking secrets to get her to f**k you fast" ..all for a LOW price of $499.98 plus shipping .

Those guys really are the KIngs of Komedy.

How are you ever going to assess a woman's REAL interest level in you unless you date her a few times and invite her out on a few consequtive weekend dates.
Forget all that giggly gushy kino shyte that they love to throw at you.
A woman's IL is at its highest when she makes herself readily available when YOU want to see her - this especially applies to Fridays and Saturday nights when she is most likely to have other offers and perhaps other options.

 

[window]

1. you ask them out and they ask if they can get back to you or can you call them in a couple of days...
2. they hardly ask you any personal questions
3. they talk about how they're in contact with ex or talking with other men
4. they never touch you
5. you ask them out and they say they're busy on such and such a night and can we do it next week without suggesting a particular time they're available.
6. One I recently went out with was talking about herself in a gross way, like she recently had a cold and was coughing up all this green stuff, then woke up with dribble all down her mouth ??? who wants to hear that sheit 2 dates in.

as for Fridays / Saturdays...the philosophy behind not asking for these days is that a guy with value would have a full enough life not to bother with a new plate on these nights. Also if they flake on you then you haven't wasted your time on a friday or saturday. Same goes with buying dinner etc. Why reward them with dinner when they haven't proved themselves to you or exhibited good behaviour.

 

[Knight's Cross]

MacAvoy,
No guy wants to be the Orbiter: I am trying to get posters to put up the signs so that new and old SS members can say," Ohhh she's doing that too"! and then rip up her phone # so they don't keep in her bullpen of guys.

Call it a quest. I'm trying to build the database for us all to KNOW what the signs are. First part of the problem solving method so to speak. You have to identify the problem (orbiter clues). Whether a guy gets smokescreened by her giggly kino/ LSD/ Nookie Napalm is another thing.

My list: defineable counteroffers to date ideas not given
text warfare/ or any type of communication shortcomings
celphone on silent/ must keep celphone at side all times/ goes into protracted text message jam sessions while with me.
does not introduce you to friends easily
tries controlling dates/ times/ places almost too much

There ya have it gents. Yes, I was the guy putting up with that crap. Never again.

KC

 

[STR8UP]

What gives it away for me is if you are on a lunch date with a girl and she takes continuous cellphone calls from whoever.

That's a low IL chick.

What KC and I and others are talking about is women who DO give your their undivided attention while they are with you, but when you try to escalate and progress you get diverted and shut down.

With these women (and like I said there has been more than one for me recently) you will have a great date. Perfect rapport. Body language in line. Her attention is completely focused on YOU, but when you aren't together you can tell she's got another gig because of the way she handles herself.

In other words, this is the kind of chick who might cancel on you but WILL toss you out a counteroffer. Or she might say, "I'm busy Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday, but we can get together Tuesday after work", and you notice a pattern. She has a lot of interest in you, but you aren't her main focus.

This happens a lot fellas. you just have to learn to recognize it by her actions and not be blinded by only getting half of what you should be out of an interaction with a woman, even if the half you are getting tells you she's giving you the green light.

 

[STR8UP]

In the case I was speaking of in the other thread, there are other plates, but none of them that I liked nearly as much as this one. The issue isn't so much scarcity of quantity but scarcity of quality, which I think is very real. There are plenty of other potential plates out there, but only so many who are really of any quality IMO.

Yea, these guys who claim to have three or four "quality" plates spinning.....I would love to live where you live, cause I have a hard time finding that many decent women in a YEAR, or even TWO.

Don't buy into this "scarcity mentality" hype. You don't NEED "options" to feel like a real man, you just need to know that you ARE a real man.

Like I said.....I have had at least two women who I dated recently who were "high but not high enough" interest. I didn't necessarily have other viable options at the time I was seeing them, but I had no problem cutting them loose as soon as I recognized that I was wasting my time.

Fact is, there are very few truly "dateable" women out there today. You just need to realize that 1) You don't NEED any woman 2) There may not always be a woman in front of you, but there is always another one around the corner.

1. you ask them out and they ask if they can get back to you or can you call them in a couple of days...
2. they hardly ask you any personal questions
3. they talk about how they're in contact with ex or talking with other men
4. they never touch you
5. you ask them out and they say they're busy on such and such a night and can we do it next week without suggesting a particular time they're available.
6. One I recently went out with was talking about herself in a gross way, like she recently had a cold and was coughing up all this green stuff, then woke up with dribble all down her mouth ??? who wants to hear that sheit 2 dates in.

Again, this is LOW IL.

This is going to prove the whole point of this post.

Women that do the things listed above are clearly NOT interested in you enough to pull their head out of their ass long enough to have a decent date with you.

The women we are speaking of are nothing of the sort. They are more like what KC describes

My list: defineable counteroffers to date ideas not given
text warfare/ or any type of communication shortcomings
celphone on silent/ must keep celphone at side all times/ goes into protracted text message jam sessions while with me.
does not introduce you to friends easily
tries controlling dates/ times/ places almost too much

You notice that most of this has to do not with a woman showing disrespect for you or your time, but more that she is not available the way a woman who is ready, willing, and able should be.

This is a great post. The kind of discussion that leads to a deeper understanding of what's going on behind the curtain.

 

[MacAvoy]

In the case I was speaking of in the other thread, there are other plates, but none of them that I liked nearly as much as this one. The issue isn't so much scarcity of quantity but scarcity of quality, which I think is very real. There are plenty of other potential plates out there, but only so many who are really of any quality IMO.

This is my point though. The fact is you've 'lablelled' this girl as better than all the others but in reality, she's got low IL. The fact is, she's not that interested in you. Trying to figure out why isn't going to give you a magic solution. If you find out why, are you going to change WHO YOU ARE, to try impress her temporarily?

My suggestion is, who cares why, its a fact, accept it and continue to be yourself, be fun, have a great time, don't focus on her, focus on you, in fact its you focussing on her that's likely gotten you where you are. The fact is 'labelling' her as more interesting than your others probably changed the way you act around her and treat her, and its proving not to be a good thing.

So my advice was to go back to being yourself, being the fun guy that ALL THE OTHER WOMEN around you are attracted to, don't try to be the guy that she's attracted to.

#41 knows he was second, so accept it and move on, don't dwell on it, trying to figure out why. Who cares, just get back to being you.

To your point, though, I like to know why I finish second in races. Sometimes it is because of things out of my control -- she might prefer fair-haired guys to dark-haired guys, or she might be attracted to guys who flash the cash quicker than I will. But, if it is something that is within my control that I can do or avoid doing, I'd kinda like to know that and build my knowledge base.

The thing is, I'm not pretending to never be an orbiter. I'm currently in the exact same situation. I just started seeing a 20 yr old who's interest was through the roof, then she flaked on me twice, so I pullled back. She then pulled back.

Even though I pulled back emotionally, deep down, I liked her more than I did all my other plates. However trying to figure why, she pulled back or isn't showing interest isn't going to help my game. When she flaked, as disappointed as I was, I didn't try figure out why, I immediately called up a backup plate and had enjoyed myself, I didn't have near as much fun as I would of if I were with her, but I still maintained me being a fun person.

Now I'm slowly getting her IL back up, but its not because I'm trying to figure her out, its because I'm continuing to be the thing thats gotten me all my women, being myself, being fun.

Not trying to figure out why I'm second, or what she likes. Thats just my mentality and it hasn't lead me astray. If you want, you can try changing yourself to be more attractive to her but in my experience, in the long run, your not farther ahead.

 

[Knight's Cross]

STR8UP,
Thanks man. What I'm trying to open up here is a better understanding of RED FLAGS of the woman that's trying to keep a guy in orbiter status.
The one that really threw me a couple of years ago was the chick that was asking me out all the time. Now I took that as High IL. However what she was really doing was staggering her get-togethers with different guys.

I noticed that she used the "Going home to mom and dad's" in the country excuse alot where celllular reception was "poor" her quote. Well lo and behold when we went one time to Ma and Pa's in the country I had great cel reception on my phone, I asked her how hers was. She had promptly forgotten the whopper that she sold me earlier about poor reception, and stated,"my phone works great out here". How bout that for a winner?

Then there's the case of the hot Pharmaceutical rep that I went out with a couple weeks ago. GREAT kino, good body language, giggly, etc. Well I asked her out again, and she wasn't available. NO COUNTER= LOW IL. She texts me from time to time as if she wants to see if the lure is still set. I deleted her #. She has AW/Orbiter written all over her.
One more for the list. The girl that tells you her Ex is presently stalking her. I did lunch the other day with a chick, and as SOON as that came out of her mouth I knew we were off to a bad start. Now that being said yes, I have been stalked by women. I don't go telling new women about that right off the bat, hell it's really not something to be proud of. I don't think I'd even let a woman know that it happened until much later in the dating game. For one, it shows of my poor choices in the past, and 2 it's probably scary to a new woman to hear about that.

Alright, keep em coming men~

KC

 

[Knight's Cross]

Solomon,
That's a bust. LOW IL. Every woman that has high IL in me,"CALLS". Texting in this case is her maintaining frame to her advantage.

KC

 

[MacAvoy]

Yea, these guys who claim to have three or four "quality" plates spinning.....I would love to live where you live, cause I have a hard time finding that many decent women in a YEAR, or even TWO.

Don't buy into this "scarcity mentality" hype. You don't NEED "options" to feel like a real man, you just need to know that you ARE a real man.

I agree with you on the first paragraph. I rarely have a quality plate spinning, more times than not, I don't have any quality spinning. Its probably because my definition of quality is rather high.

That being said, you can't lose sight of 'your the prize' with a HQ plate. Personally I admit, I change the way I act with a HQ plate. I run into lets say 20-50 HQ women a year, but I'm only attracted to maybe 10 of them of which 5 are usually taken, therefore leaving me 5 HQ women that I'm attracted to.

Now you figure in that every women I'm attracted to, isn't attracted to me because I don't fit their interest or whatever, so that only leaves me with 1-2 HQ women that I'm compatible with in any given year.

Now see this is where the scarcity mentality starts to creep in. I know I'm a quality man but I'm also a really good judge of character and I trust my instincts. So when I find a HQ women that I'm interested in, its natural for me to want it to go beyond just fvcking. If I want just sex, I can get that from a LQ hb9.

Because of my style, (I'm not your typical corporate ladder climbing type, I'm more of an adventurous guy who's got lots of options), my fun loving personality, HQ enjoy me but they realize because of who I am, that I've got other options and them being HQ it isn't acceptable to them, for me to be out playing the field. So they naturally tend to rope me in.

Because I view them in high regard, I allow them to. Now don't get that confused with allowing just anybody to tie me down, I'm constantly subtly telling my new LQ plates, that I need to get to know them better, I'm basically giving them hope for something more when I'm really just blowing them off of anything serious because they don't meet my standards.

But back to the original point, just because you like this girl more than the others as #41 put it, you can't treat her differently from all the other girls that are fawning over you. All the other girls are fawning over you for a reason. Why would you want to change who you are, when what you are is what is attracting scores of women to you? Why would you want to basically try to pedastool her is my point.

Sometimes you have to chalk things up to she just doesn't like me, accept it and move on. I mean at the end of the day, if she's not THAT interested, do you really want to expend your energy on someone that isn't that into you? I don't know, maybe I'm too much of an economist but I value my time.

I recently came across this quote and I really like it:

Piece of advice: you can lose your money. You can spend it - all of it. Maybe work hard, get it all back. But if you waste your time, you're never gonna get it back.

 

[#41]

So my advice was to go back to being yourself, being the fun guy that ALL THE OTHER WOMEN around you are attracted to, don't try to be the guy that she's attracted to.

#41 knows he was second, so accept it and move on, don't dwell on it, trying to figure out why. Who cares, just get back to being you.

Two things:

1.) The "other women around you" in this case, are usually LQ women. In my case, unfortunately, LQ women who are usually unattractive in addition to being LQ. That's why, for better or worse, I try to work the game just a little bit harder when I get a HQ woman interested (and why, again for better or worse, it stings that much more when you lose her as a plate). Being me is OK, but I can't shake the belief that being me + something might yield better results. That's why I'm always trying to learn.

2.) Does being second always result in being second? Can you start off as an "orbiter" and move into primary status, or is it more like a LJBF thing, where once she decides you're the #2 priority on her dating life you're pretty much stuck until she decides what is going on with #1? If the situation is fluid, knowing why you ended up as the orbiter can help push things in your favor the next time.

 

[jophil28]

2.) Does being second always result in being second? Can you start off as an "orbiter" and move into primary status, or is it more like a LJBF thing, where once she decides you're the #2 priority on her dating life you're pretty much stuck until she decides what is going on with #1? If the situation is fluid, knowing why you ended up as the orbiter can help push things in your favor the next time.

Never say never.
However it is possible to move from #2 up to #1 but why would you want someone who shuffes men around like pieces on a chessboard. She is acting like she owns the whole game and she owns the power .You are a pawn wating for her to move you...

This concept is the theme of many "chick" movies.

 

[jophil28]

One more for the list. The girl that tells you her Ex is presently stalking her. I did lunch the other day with a chick, and as SOON as that came out of her mouth I knew we were off to a bad start.

You instincts are sound, You were off to a very bad start.

WE have all been stalked by women at some time ,and women ARE sometimes stalked by men. True, but your point is whether it is appropriate for her to tell you on the first or second date ? NO, it is counter productive.

IMO opinion, three things (at least) are at work here.

1) She is telling you a "victim story" to attempt to trigger off the "rescuer" in you. Women are addicted to their victimhood because it works for them.
Being stalked makes her a victim. Whether it is true or not is open to doubt. Most women exaggerate the drama in their lives to elicit a response from others.

2) Claiming that she is being stalked has elements of "attention seeking" which is just another universal female tactic.

3) She is attempting to create a RIVALRY in your mind in which you COMPETE for her affections over and above her stalker ex. She is trying to "prize" herself, and setup a tug of war in which you chase her and try to win her away from her ex.

All these are power plays of one kind or another. They rarely achieve the hoped for results, but women seem to persist with these adoloscent mindgames.

 

[Dust 2 Dust]

A dead giveaway for me is their always unavailable on the weekends. I dated this chick and got lots of kino initiated by her and kiss closed her on the first date, but she would never agree to weekend dates. I nexted her after refusing a weekend date for the third time.

About a month later I found out the reason she wouldn't see me on the weekends. Turns out, she was traveling several hours away on the weekend to see another guy she met while on vacation to her grandparents. I was the orbiter in this case.

 

[Knight's Cross]

Mr. M,
Yes Orbiter = plate to a woman, but more often than not it's a plate that will never be,"The Plate". Once placed in orbit, you are not a viable candidate. That's the difference. My current plates all have possibility to make it to the finals. When a woman lobs you into her male attention giving crowd, chances are she does not see you as a sexual being that she will afford the chance to move forward with. As if you are stuck in the doldrums, no wind in your sail, but you can give her attention, of that she enjoys the ego boost.

By the way, when we talk of spinning plates, if you are doing it right, the women you date all KNOW that you are not exclusive. You do not need to tell them this, but you do not imply exclusivity with ANYONE until YOU decide.

KC

 

[Mr.Positive]

Mr. M,
Yes Orbiter = plate to a woman, but more often than not it's a plate that will never be,"The Plate". Once placed in orbit, you are not a viable candidate. That's the difference. My current plates all have possibility to make it to the finals. When a woman lobs you into her male attention giving crowd, chances are she does not see you as a sexual being that she will afford the chance to move forward with. As if you are stuck in the doldrums, no wind in your sail, but you can give her attention, of that she enjoys the ego boost.

KC

Bullseye!

Once in orbit, you'll stay in orbit. Your best bet, is to break out of that attention seeking atmosphere.

Find a shining star of your own.

 

[potato]

It seems to me that in most cases I just go with what feels right. If it doesn’t feel right then there is the good chance that things aren’t working. But that is something that takes time and experience and not so easily taught.

However I whole heartedly agree with Guru1000 and Jophil28 on this issue. A woman with high interest will almost always make herself available to you. If a woman makes herself unavailable to you, that is the one most indicative indicator that she has low interest.

As to texting; I dated a woman who never talked on the phone, only texted and sometimes listened to messages people left. Bottom line is her interest for me was through the roof – she just had a thing against talking on the phone. Actually we had some interesting, playful conversations by way of texting.

2.) Does being second always result in being second? Can you start off as an "orbiter" and move into primary status, or is it more like a LJBF thing, where once she decides you're the #2 priority on her dating life you're pretty much stuck until she decides what is going on with #1? If the situation is fluid, knowing why you ended up as the orbiter can help push things in your favor the next time.

For the most part, to be #1 the woman has to have a high interest level from the very start. When I first met my girlfriend she had a boyfriend, a boyfriend that she lived with. There were also several orbiters in the picture. Although there was a great deal of attraction between us I was hesitant to get too close; not wanting to be just another guy in her life. In fact I had written her off for this very reason. But she wouldn’t let it die, approaching and talking to me whenever I came around – always telling me how much she enjoyed our conversations. Before long she had broken up with her boyfriend and pushed away the orbiters. She made herself entirely available for me.

#41, I understand your desire to have feedback from the woman who dumped you; I think that everyone would to some extent. But the bottom line is that most likely there just wasn’t enough attraction, on her part, to want to continue. In all likelihood it wasn’t what you did or didn’t do or say, but something to do with her. I like to think of women as adventures; some are longer lasting and more interesting than others. Some are short lived and don’t really go anywhere. Time for a new adventure.

 

[Andy_Dufresne]

Oh mannn....this thread is special. I could write a book on this one from my more AFC days.

My fave...this woman I knew about 5 years ago.

Ms "I'd love to.... but I have plans."

Watch out for that one.

One time I went on a camping trip with a bunch of my friends. I invited her and her son to stay on the same site. The following day she came and told me her 'boyfriend' ws bored and jealous and wanted to come up. I said "sure"...knowing my ex-gf was camping just two sites down and I could hang out with her. Which I did, of course.

What a waste that was. I cut off contact with her after that.

 

[darkstarrr]

I've realized recently that I was a plate, and orbitor - in an LTR for over a year. I should have known something was terribly wrong when I realized she never invited me to her sisters house where she lives. She used to always come to my place and never once invited me back there. In the end when she pulled the disappearing act and turned her phone off, when I called her on the house line she told a mutual friend that I called her on the house line which means I know ehre she lives..

Somebody please give me some feedback on what I just said. We were together for over a year and were planning on moving in together.

If she never loved me as she said in our last convo and if she is not attracted to me then why the fvck was she with me. Why the fvck did she pressure me into going on trips to places like vegas. Why the fvck did she infest my entire life to the extent that she came to my work functions like summer outings. The sick b1tch was a lying cheating piece of scum who felt so guilty for cheating on me that she had to be so cruel to me in the end. The bottom line is that this cvnt resented me in the end because of how guilty she felt when she was around me.

What we are doing here in these discussions about being orbitors, etc is succumbing to how problematic our society and culture is. Its argued that 1 in 5 of these people who we date have personality disorders.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28002991/?gt1=43001

Do you think a real girl who has value, who has not hored around and started doing drugs at 12 or 13 - that she would treat men like this or be so indecisive about what she wants?

If you meet a real girl who was raised in a family where they had supper on the table most nights, where her parents are still together and "normal" people who aren't alcoholics or with a coke habit in the past - she is a lot less likely to fvkc around and play these little games that lead us coming crying to this forum about being orbitors.

I'm sick and tired of the bullsh1t.

 

[STR8UP]

The bottom line is that this cvnt resented me in the end because of how guilty she felt when she was around me.

Don't you just love how that works? How do women get away with pouring salt on an open wound like that? I'll tell you how....they have a built in defense mechanism that flips a switch inside of them when they do something wrong. Instead of feeling guilt and remorse like a lot of men would, they feel anger and resentment toward the person they hurt. This is what allows women to rationalize their behavior. They can't HANDLE being held accountable because that would mean that they would be a hypocrite and they would be forced to look in the mirror at an ugly piece of sh!t every day.

I have mentioned in the past that "men should date like women".

This doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be an AW and have a bunch of orbiters around you, but it does mean that you should feel free to pursue the game of love free of guilt and remorse, much like women do. Sure...date a chick, even become exclusive with her if you so choose. But if a BBD comes along don't hesitate to jump ship out of obligation to her, because she wouldn't hesitate to do it to you.

I learned this lesson the hard way. SEVERAL times.

 

[GuanYu]

Is it possible to be an orbiter if you're still getting sex with the woman? If so, I'm probably an orbiter with two women right now. I stick around just for the sex, but always on the prowl.