Orbiters, or 70% man, have you been one

[Knight's Cross]

Gentlemen,
In a quest to help us all understand what #41 may have been recently been up against in his," Is it anti-DJ to be nexted" thread, I propose we make a list. This may be powerful stuff for the new guys, as well as the more seasoned MM members.
Here's the situation: You met a new plate, have done a couple dates, but something tells you that you are not the A guy in her lineup. What were the clues that she was toying with you, possibly in a attempt to raise her A guy's interest level thru seeing her date another man (you). Basically what set off your spider senses?
I'll start: You place a phonecall, and she immediately goes into text message only communication. EVERY time. Never returning a call via voice. To me that's a blocker, and a woman that digs me doesn't play that game.

KC

 

[Luminescence]

This is great. What are the signs that a women/AW is just ''toying'' with you or giving insincere signs of attraction? I'd really like to know.

 

[jophil28]

This is great. What are the signs that a women/AW is just ''toying'' with you or giving insincere signs of attraction? I'd really like to know.

Her "schedule is crazy" but she can see you next Thursday week at 9pm.

There are a myriad variations...

"I have a job that does not give me a lot of time for a social life."

" I have just come out of a relationship and I am not planning on rushing into another one. "

" My girlfriends are soooo important to me."

" My ex called me, and we are "talking" again"

and the list of BS goes on .

 

[Rounder]

Well I want to turn the table for sec -

If DJs are *the prize* and *in demand* - surely some of you have experienced women saying to you - "when can we get together next?"

What kind of responses do you give to that question? Would they in fact be similar in some shape or form to the type of remarks a DJ might receive in such a situation that KC has described?

 

[Jeffst1980]

Right on with the 'text only' thing. Lots of texts that say, "What r u up 2?" but nothing but silence if you tell her to meet you somewhere.

Also: She doesn't qualify you at ALL. Too many compliments right off the bat with no attempt to really probe into your life. An interested woman is, well, INTERESTED in you.

 

[Knight's Cross]

Rounder,
I hear ya man. I have a plate right now that asks just that,"When can I see you again". That's HIGH IL. What I'm trying to filter are the signs that other SS members have seen that show she's using you for the warm up bench and you are not on deck.

GURU I agree that a woman that clears her schedule for you is a good sign, however I don't next if she's already made plans with family, girlfriends whatever. I next if there's not a defineable counteroffer. If I throw a date idea and she says she's busy. That's ok. She must immediately come back with a date idea for another time that's near term. I also believe that a woman that TOTALLLY gives up her life/schedule to fit mine is unsuitable dating material. It shows that she's the AFC, and nobody wants that kind of clingy.

KC

 

[azanon]

Being late for anything. A woman with high IL will not only be on-time, but secretly she's been ready since yesterday.

The ones that actually are interested, but late anyway - run from those... something's broke and the pzssy isn't worth it.

 

[betterthandead]

any girl who is "too busy" or can't make up her mind is generally not interested romantically.

 

[mtbbkr111]

This actually happened with me last week. I saw this girl 3 times.. She would txt me everyday asking how my day was.. I'd usually wait until the next day, give her a txt or call.. After the third time we went out), the next day txt stopped.. she txt'd me sat, I called her back.. No answer (I didn't leave a msg).. She called me a bit later.. I could tell her IL dropped.. I have not contacted her since...

Now, here is my question, should I have been more of an aggressor and contacted her during the week?

Mind you I went out with another girl on Sun, whom which my IL dropped huge, so I have not contacted her since..


I'm not a fan of texting, but it seems to be the way it goes now..

 

[STR8UP]

I posted this in the other thread, but it applies here

Nobody is "ok" with being 70% man. If they were we wouldn't have posts like this.

The issue here is that she displays all of the classic signs of high interest when you are face to face, maybe even going so far as to try to set up ANOTHER DATE WITH YOU while you are on your first one, just to blow you out of the water within the next few days because once she is out of your presence, her IL in the other guy trumps anything she felt for you when she was giggling and touching her hair and kino'ing you.

So the point of this is the strong need to realize when you are NOT her "A" guy, usually by observing her behavior AFTER you are face to face with her, and using this feedback to proceed accordingly.

My rule is that a woman only gets so many chances to reciprocate to a level that I am satisfied with, then, even if she still shows up on time to dates and displays all of the classic signs of attraction if she isn't available enough I assume that I am fighting an uphill battle and I walk away.

To answer your question though....

The thing that usually sets off the spidey senses is AFTER the date.

The whole issue here is, after all, that she has displayed signs of interest WHILE SHE IS IN FRONT OF YOU. She gives you her undivided attention and makes it clear that there is SOMETHING between the two of you, at least as far as she is concerned.

Usually what happens (and this has happened to me more than once in the past year or so) is that everything will be PERFECT on the date. She shows up early. The conversation flows like water. She angles her body toward you. She is eating up your C&F and touching you left and right. She might even be hinting at or all out asking for another date.

You get done and start to think, "Man, that was great. the chemistry was there and I did everything right. This should be easy".

The you go to call her in the middle of the week and she doesn't return your call until the next day. You try to set up plans with her but she is busy until a week from Thursday. (Incidentally, you set up a date for a week from Thursday and she shows up again and the cycle repeats itself).

All of those classic signs of interest start to look bogus, but they WEREN'T bogus, because she DID have interest in you, it's just that when she is not in your presence, the gravitational pull of the object that SHE is orbiting around exerts its profound power, and there is often nothing you can do to break it. Lost cause.

So for me the dead giveaway is in the follow up. If you don't get congruent behavior AFTER the date, chances are good that you are a victim of being a "B" guy. If you don't see enough reciprocation it's time to forget about her and walk away.

 

[#41]

If you ask for a Friday or Saturday and she counteroffers for a weekday, you are not top priority.

I had always been under the assumption that Friday/Saturday weren't nights you should be dating on until things were well past the "does she have IL" stage?

 

[Phyzzle]

Yeah, I would hold off on giving a girl my weekend time for a while. What's fun is to date her until she says, "why can't you ever see me on weekends?"

But I suppose once you get into a committed relationship, you should expect her to make weekend time with you when you want it. If she can't, you should reconsider being monogamous.

* Another sign is when she has to start each date at a particular pub where she's a regular. I'm totally happy with taking her to my favorite bar, or vice versa, but if she wants to meet you at the same place a second time in a row, she's probably trying to make you into an orbiter to impress her social circle.

 

[jophil28]

Being late for anything. A woman with high IL will not only be on-time, but secretly she's been ready since yesterday.

The ones that actually are interested, but late anyway - run from those... something's broke and the pzssy isn't worth it.

Excellent insight .

Arriving chronically late indicates a poor sense of social courtesy and a low level of respect for you and your time.
Punctuality is a simple and valuable skill to acquire and practise.

Women who lack this skill or who play "oh, look, Im late -silly me " are not suitable LTR candidates.

Secondly, being 'Mr 70% ' in a woman's life when she has her eye on Mr 90% makes you the booby prize. You are essentially an 'orbiter' and you are being used to fill the vacant space until she hooks Mr 90%...

 

[jophil28]

I am simply looking for high IL. It is my experience that EVERY girl with high IL has cleared their weekend for me.

THis was my experience too.

THis is how is needs to be gentlemen.
I expect her to place 'hanging out with her girlfriends' BELOW dating me.
Secondly , a woman with HIGH IL will snap to attention if you offer her a Saturday night date. ANy hemmimg and hawing on her part means LOW IL and it also leads to no more offers from me..

I will only make exceptions to this rule when she has a pre-arranged function to attend which was lined up BEFORE she met me. And it better be a big enough of a deal so that she cannot back out..

 

[jophil28]

If you find yourself having to play by someone’s RULES to inject interest, you have already failed. You made her the PRIZE to be won by attempting to MAKE her like you. She must QUAILIFY to you, not vice-versa. When playing by rules other than your own, you are qualifying to her. The goal is not to create high interest; it must be present by her volition. The mark of true compatibility is High IL in who you are, not your presentation.

Friday and Saturday nights are great indicators of IL. How WILLING she is to see you on these nights are telltale signs of her true intent.

Golden wisdom and priceless insight..

 

[Jitterbug]

I was a 70% guy recently. Took this girl out on a couple of dates, both had a good time, she showed signs of high IL, some kissing etc. everything was right like STR8UP mentioned. I didn't tap it, but it was only the first few dates and she was a kinda shy girl so I didn't mind.

My gut told me something was not right when I got to my usual dancing venue (which is also hers) and bumped into her with another guy. She still acted normal and referred to the other guy as a friend/coworker. They didn't look like a couple at all, just like some friends. She was much flirtier with another guy I know (who's in a relationship). However, I sensed that something was up. I had a friendly chat with the guy but he was very closed off so couldn't dig much out of it, but the body language told me that he was keen on her.

Next 2 times I asked her out, she made excuses. Eventually I got a TXT from her saying that she thinks I'm great & gorgeous and all that, but she would only like to LJBF and is now seeing someone (acting as if we never dated at all). It was that guy. I never responded to that TXT. Haven't seen those two again in the scene since then (4 months ago).

One thing I got out of that experience is that I should take girls out on different kinds of dates, including the "boring" ones, to properly gauge their IL. If they're saying yes to your exciting dates but making excuses to not go out with you when it's a not so exciting one, then their IL isn't that high. A lot of guys are so into new & exciting date ideas and look down on the more conventional, boring dates but that could bite them in the arse later on.

 

[MacAvoy]

My question is why would you want to be an orbiter or a 70% guy?

IMO this is coming from scarcity mentality. Why do you want someone that doesn't completely want you? Why make a list of reasons WHY a women isn't interested in you. Once she's on that list, you should be out of there.

If your coming from a position of abundance and you truly are the prize, then you'll have other plates and other options. The fact is, your not her #1 for some reason. Now I'm not saying next her, just don't waste your energy trying to figure out why your #2.

Simply continue to live your life, be the happy fun guy that you are and you'll have other women who TRULY desire you. The thing about that is, when you do this, is usually when they come crawling back to you.

 

[STR8UP]

My question is why would you want to be an orbiter or a 70% guy?

My question is, What gives you the idea that anyone WANTS to be this guy?.

I see post after post of people missing the point.

The point is, you need to be able to RECOGNIZE when you need to "hold 'em" or when you need to "fold 'em".

 

[KontrollerX]

What gives it away for me is if you are on a lunch date with a girl and she takes continuous cellphone calls from whoever.

If that happens you need to get up and get out of there ignoring her protests and everything that she says.

As despite all her kino and giggling bullsh!t and slick apparent attracted behavior towards you the taking of the calls tells the tale of what she really thinks of you.

Ask yourself gentlemen if you had a chick as hot as say Nikki Nova across from you and you were on a date with her would you be letting people blow up your cellphone and talking to them?

Hell no miss Nova would have your undivided attention.

Not saying a hot babe even on the level of that should make you drop everything in your life for her I'm simply conveying that not taking calls on a date or engaging in other distraction oriented activities that detract from the date are simple matters of respect that all genuinely interested parties follow.

And a hot babe on that level definitely gets your undivided attention so long as she's exhibiting good behavior and you most certainly don't turn AFC lapdog on her or supplicate in any way. Just clarifying here.

 

[#41]

If your coming from a position of abundance and you truly are the prize, then you'll have other plates and other options. The fact is, your not her #1 for some reason. Now I'm not saying next her, just don't waste your energy trying to figure out why your #2.

In the case I was speaking of in the other thread, there are other plates, but none of them that I liked nearly as much as this one. The issue isn't so much scarcity of quantity but scarcity of quality, which I think is very real. There are plenty of other potential plates out there, but only so many who are really of any quality IMO.

To your point, though, I like to know why I finish second in races. Sometimes it is because of things out of my control -- she might prefer fair-haired guys to dark-haired guys, or she might be attracted to guys who flash the cash quicker than I will. But, if it is something that is within my control that I can do or avoid doing, I'd kinda like to know that and build my knowledge base.