Oppose Gay Marriage and you are considered a Racist

Shiftkey

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Messages
3,648
Reaction score
8
Location
Orange County, Ca
Bible_Belt said:
Allowing gay marriage amounts to your tax dollars paying homos to fvck each other in the a55. Getting married allows many tax breaks; it makes you eligible w/o your parents' income for student loans if you are under 23; your non-citizen spouse can get a green card and work. There are countless financial benefits to marriage.

All of that crap about "loving relationship" sounds fine, except two guys can't get the money w/o at least telling the gov't that they have sex. What is the difference between a gay couple and two straight guys who are lifelong friends and roommates? The only difference is the gay sex. It's impossible to prove or know who does what with whom in their bedroom, so if gay marriage is allowed, every pair of straight roommates should get "married" so that they get all of the financial benefits of marriage.
I've always been under the assumption that marriaged couples pay MORE in taxes than single people in two income households - at least that's what my econ professor would argue. She said that the way tax brackets work, married couples have to combine their income to receive any breaks and thus more of it has to be put into higher tax brackets and half as much is tax free. Any tax breaks married couples get pale in comparison to the taxes they have to pay in the first place due to higher tax brackets. The only advantage tax wise with married couples is if one person makes all of the money, which is rare today and puts a wrench in your roommate situation.

Now I'm no tax expert, but here's a rough example with hypothetical numbers:
$8,000: tax free
$8,001 - $20,000: 10%
$20,001 - $40,000: 20%
$40,001 - $80,000: 30%

Two people both make $30,000 a year for a combined $60,000.

If they're single, $16,000 is tax free, $24,000 is taxed at 10%, and $20,000 is taxed at 20%. For a total of $6,400 in taxes.

If they're married and filing jointly so they're eligable for tax breaks, $8,000 is tax free, $12,000 is taxed at 10%, $20,000 is taxed at 20%, and $20,000 is taxed at 30%. For a total of $11,200 in taxes; They'd need $4,800 in tax breaks just to break even, which doesn't happen.
 

whistler

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Messages
633
Reaction score
5
Location
New York
Shiftkey said:
Understand that this is not about prejeduce, and that throwing personal insults is not appropriate on this forum (and can start flame wars which will get this thread locked). I have no problem with gay lifestyles, my only problem is with the lack of a father or mother figure when raising children.
I don't get it. The studies that are relevant to your concern on the page you mentioned all support the idea that there are no real differences regarding child development or mental health. Legitimate caveats aside, I would've expected any serious differences between children of gay and straight parents to appear in one of the seven or so studies cited in the outcomes section of the web page.


What would be nice is a large scale study comparing children of single parents to children of gay parents.
 

PRMoon

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Messages
3,746
Reaction score
41
Age
44
Location
-777-Vegas-777-
Bible_Belt said:
Why not? How do you prove who has sex with whom? If you think no one would lie, I'd argue that getting married can translate into tens of thousands of dollars, a college degree, and citizenship. People will lie on a form to get these benefits, because there is no way to prove the fraud.

Marriage is not cut and dry about money like you're stating. Many homosexuals are just seeking recognition from the states having a legal union between two individuals. Very few of them are seeking to sick it to the man an extort money from the government. They're not devious criminals just people particiating in an lifestyle that strays from what we have all come to think of as normal.
 

Bible_Belt

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
17,104
Reaction score
5,735
Age
48
Location
midwestern cow field 40
They're not devious criminals just people particiating in an lifestyle that strays from what we have all come to think of as normal.

Couldn't the same argument be applied to pedophiles? NAMBLA think they're a persecuted minority, too.
 

Well I'm here to tell you there is such a magic wand. Something that will make you almost completely irresistible to any woman you "point it" at. Something guaranteed to fill your life with love, romance, and excitement.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

whistler

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Messages
633
Reaction score
5
Location
New York
Bible_Belt said:
They're not devious criminals just people particiating in an lifestyle that strays from what we have all come to think of as normal.

Couldn't the same argument be applied to pedophiles? NAMBLA think they're a persecuted minority, too.

No, it couldn't.

Guys having sex with minors VS informed, consenting adults with strap-ons and lube?
 

diplomatic_lies

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 4, 2002
Messages
4,368
Reaction score
8
You know, some people might call one-night stands a deviant lifestyle ;)
 

Francisco d'Anconia

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 10, 2003
Messages
15,502
Reaction score
63
Location
Galt's Gulch
diplomatic_lies said:
You know, some people might call one-night stands a deviant lifestyle ;)
Not me.... Especially when she pays... :whistle:
 

PRMoon

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Messages
3,746
Reaction score
41
Age
44
Location
-777-Vegas-777-
diplomatic_lies said:
You know, some people might call one-night stands a deviant lifestyle ;)
If the one night stand is wrong then I don't want to be right:D
 

diplomatic_lies

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 4, 2002
Messages
4,368
Reaction score
8
Exactly. So really, why would you guys criticise the lifestyles of homosexuals, when your own lifestyles are just as deviant?
 

A-Unit

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 6, 2004
Messages
1,516
Reaction score
44
Re:

1. It's an issue because those in power seek to distract people from the REAL issues. I.e. mounting debt, imbalanced trade deficits, social security, 9-11, the war, loss of our rights, wire-tapping, etc. Marriage and homosexuality hits so many nerves, tons of interested groups will peak their head out of the sand just to begin fighting, when in reality the only time a concern is raised is because GAYS who marry want to be able to share health insurance, life insurance, disabilities benefits, social security benefits, inheritance laws, and tax laws. Right now, a gay partner is NON-spousal, as such, in most states they don't favorable fall under the letters of the law. So what? Give it to them or don't it to them. On one side, if it makes sense for companies to underwrite gay people because it doesn't cost any more money, go for it. As far as disability benefits and social security, they're already abused enough, so even if they get some "rights", they'll be minimal as social security dwindles.

2. As far as raising children, we already have enough absent, immature, or delenquent fathers, what's it matter now if 2 loving parents want to be involved? Most gay relationships, insofaras I can tell, have one MASCULINE and one FEMININE partner, even if they're same sex. Perhaps studies could be done, or at least theories posited that that alone would aid in the development of a balanced child. Certainly it would be beneficial to a girl to have 2 men, and one be feminine and one masculine (Like the Bird Cage), but the government doesn't truly want loving, united families. They don't. Special interest groups don't. Because, as you can see by NEEDING a marriage license (they never needed one before, so how did they marry during a time that had MORE marriages than now?), you claim incompetency before the state AND choose to abide by THEIR laws upon dissolution of the marriage. A woman marrying a man gains the POWER of the government and federal and state divorce laws, a man gains little if anything, except tax benefits and spousal benefits, unless she's the bread winner.

This is why the gov can pry into HOW you parent, and also why spanking is nearly outlawed. It's one thing to abuse a kid, it's another to get spanked or hit. Boys don't respond badly to it, yet anything that's abusive obviously can potentially have negative consequences. There's a difference.

Fact is, getting all pissy doesn't matter. And you can cite religion, law, ethics, morality, or philosophy, and it doesn't matter. It's all smokescreen. For most guys here, gay marriage won't impact you. According to ANTI-gay marriage proponents, it will DEGRADE marriage. However, I think the proliferation in divorce rates AND the nasty divorce laws have done a fine job of ruining marriage. Couple that with easy access to sex and birth control, and the idea of marriage is becoming almost outdatd. Oh, sure, everyone might give it a "try", but inevitably, a large % will fall out as we go forward. That's why I don't get the RELIGIOUS debate. Our country and the world is a large brew of different races, sexes, preferences, and languages; we've proven diversity is better than uniformity, so why fight to have all the same until we absolutely KNOW without ANY doubt that gay marriage is bad, or anything else surrounding this funny debate.


Bark on,


A-Unit
 

Desdinova

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
11,639
Reaction score
4,717
there is a lot of evidence that being raised by gay parents doesn't harm children in the least, in terms of attitude, gender confusion, whatever.
You also have to take into consideration that Society's view of good children and the family unit are extremely distorted. A good child will sit down and shut up on command regardless of abuse, and the family unit is positive even if the two people involved hate each others' guts.

Children without a father figure cannot see how father figures are supposed to act. Children without mother figures cannot see how mother figures are supposed to act.
Not sure about the "stereotypical roles" for lack of a better term, but the natural and instinctive roles of each should be there for a child to view. Unfortunately, society encourages both men and women to supress their natural behavior and act according to how people "think" they should behave.

Gay couples don't necessarily go against nature. I've seen other mammals show "gay" qualities. However, man + man does not equal baby. Woman + woman does not equal baby. Gay couples raising children goes against nature. But what the hell, most of society goes against nature anyway, so why not add to the problem?

I have a friend who's father committed suicide when he was a child. He grew up in a house with his mother and his sister. If you met him, you'd wonder if he was gay, or if he was a woman who got a sex change. He acts EXTREMELY feminine, but is 100% straight. That is the kind of thing sosuave is fighting against. I could only imagine the same results from two lesbians raising a child. I also have yet to meet a masculine gay man.

... so if gay marriage is allowed, every pair of straight roommates should get "married" so that they get all of the financial benefits of marriage.
See the link I posted on the first page of the two staight men who got married.
 

PRMoon

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Messages
3,746
Reaction score
41
Age
44
Location
-777-Vegas-777-
diplomatic_lies said:
Exactly. So really, why would you guys criticise the lifestyles of homosexuals, when your own lifestyles are just as deviant?
where did I say it was deviant?:confused:
I said it was different from ours but, I'm still understanding of their lifestyle. I don't think there's any GOOD reason why homosexuals shouldnt' get married. Alot of the crap that bush spits out is based on religion which I think should have no place in politics. Most of the reasons listed in this post why they shouldn't get married/have kids is BS too.
 
Top