Opinions on "friends first" in this situation

[EyeBRollin]

Never agree to being friends. Now she gets what she wants and you don’t get what you want which is more. If she sent me that text wanting to be friends I would’ve told her straight up “I can’t just be your friend. Friend with benefits but not just friends. Hit me up if you ever change your mind.” And stick with it. Trust me she’s going to keep pressing with the let’s be friends bull.

I'd agree to being friends...

.....while I'm trying to stick my tongue in her mouth.

Women say things and do the other. I hope the OP finds it in him to make a move and not take anything she says literally.

 

[ItsFate451]

I'd agree to being friends...

.....while I'm trying to stick my tongue in her mouth.

Women say things and do the other. I hope the OP finds it in him to make a move and not take anything she says literally.

Good luck with that. You’re going to try to stick your tongue in her mouth but you’re going to fail each time. But if you enjoy the friend zone go right ahead.

 

[EyeBRollin]

The point was to say, when a woman says "friends" I'd take it with a grain of salt. It means one of two things:

1) You have a chance if you aren't clingy or chase
2) I liked you, but your weak behavior turned me off

 

[Igetit!]

I normally wouldn't but this situation might be different?

No...it's NOT. In fact,it's pretty typical.

Been hanging out with this girl for about 3-4 months.

Mistake #1.

After about two weeks of NC she texts me out of the blue. Long text about wanting to be friends, how much she would value me in her life, etc. I said sure no problem with no expectations.

So when she sent you the long text,saying she wanted to be friends and talking about how much she'd value you in her life,you said "No problem,with no expectations". You messed up there,dude. You agreed to being friends with her,although it's not what you really want.

If she happens to meet another guy and decides to take a liking to him,you have NO GROUNDS to be upset with her. If you're out one day and see her walking hand in hand with another guy,don't get mad or angry. YOU AGREED to be "friends". You LET HER pick for YOU...what you didn't want. So that's what you got.

We text a few days later and she tells me "I've been thinking about you lately, you were really kind to me". So we hang out a few days later and she opens up about getting hurt a long time back and hasn't dated much since then.

Another mistake. And this one,has FRIENDZONE written all over it. You shouldn't be setting back listening to her stories of bring "hurt" in the past. What do you want to be....her therapist,or her lover?

Uses friends first as a defense mechanism to build trust and get to know who a person really is before getting emotionally attached.

Yeah....and apparently this defense mechanism is pretty effective. It got YOU hanging out around her for the past 3 months,waiting for her to finally be "ready" to date. You see any end in sight,or you still sittin' back,twiddling your thumbs,waiting for her to be "ready"???

Then a week ago she asked me to be direct about my feelings. Told her I know she moves slow but is worth waiting for, that I thought she was the sweetest girl and it'd break my heart if anything happened to her, that we have chemistry that's hard to find and worth fighting to keep, etc.

Now here...this....was a HUGE mistake on your part. There are two things you should have done when she asked you about your feelings for her. One...

You should have expressed SEXUAL INTEREST. Tell her you like the way she looks in a certain outfit,tell her you got "turned on" whenever you see her,tell her you like the way she moves when she walks...whatever,it just should have been sexual....and not mentioned anything about "caring about", "having feelings for",your "heart"....or anything like that.

By expressing sexual interest,she'll know that she AIN'T special. Why? Because you can turn around and see another chick hotter,cuter,or with bigger boobs. The way you did it,by saying she's "worth fighting for" and how it'd "break your heart" if something happened to her,you likely boosted her ego,cause you got all these feelings for her WITHOUT her having to do anything (no dating,no sex,no nada).


And the second thing you should have done.......

You should have thrown the question RIGHT BACK IN HER FACE.

Have you noticed that,there's TWO PEOPLE HERE...you and her,but YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE expressing their feelings? What about HER FEELINGS towards you? When you told her your feelings for her,she didn't say she felt the same way towards you....she just jumped up and down,squeeled,and ran off. That's basically like telling someone you love them,but instead of them saying it back,they say,"Thank you".

I would have thrown that sh!t right back in her face.

She was shocked and elated I felt that way, had thought she meant very little to me, had no idea I cared that much, and now her interest level has seemed to skyrocket. She's has been initiating contact almost everyday and initiated to see me Sunday and Tuesday. A massive leap forward in frequency.

So her interest has skyrocketed. So.....what's that mean? You going out on dates now? Having sex? She finally let you "touch" her?

Yeah....I didn't think so.

Sunday in the car I told her crystal clear I value the friendship, but want to see this grow into more when the time is right. She agreed.

And yet,another mistake.....

You told her you wanted to see your friendship grow into more quote: "When the time is right". Ok....and when will that be?
And WHO decides when? And of course she agreed.....cause now,she can push off a possible relationship basically INDEFINITELY....and YOU gave her the right to do so.

She's great at dropping lines here and there like I'm special and the only one (ex: I would never do X with guys but I am with you), while at the same time being aloof and somewhat closed off. Very possible it's legit and she needs time to build trust and comfort as she claims, but it's kinda weird and has forced my guard up to a degree.

Dude,listen......

You said she hasn't been in a relationship with anyone since she got hurt.....10 years ago....but here,you say it's possible that she really needs time to build trust and comfort. IF SHE HASN'T GOT PAST THE HURT AND LEARNED TO TRUST AFTER 10 YEARS of being alone (yeah,right),she's too damaged to try to have a relationship with.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

You have to be first and foremost a pragmatist. What is your nature like... what is the specific woman's nature like? Actions taken then will be congruent to those realities. No a priori abstractions or generalities. So I think you are approaching this particular situation well.

These days, I go out of my way not to appear a 'player'. First it is not congruent with my personality [as anyone would know, by reading a few of my posts, I'm essentially a medievalist of sorts], and second, the women I am attracted to run a mile from that kind of vibe.

Lately, I have been looking at simply building connections BUT with the added spice of a lot of things you find here on this board. Instead of making the erotic element the substance of the meal, it should jus be the seasoning.

A little anecdote; so I go for my second bike-ride with a lady yesterday. We were talking about travel. I mentioned Fukuoka as a nearby destination. She surprisingly mentions she heard about the red light district... to which I said great! I'll have to check that out next time! We laugh... and all potentially prudishness evaporates from the relationship we are building.

I think out of fear of appearing too blue pill and conventional, many are reacting toward the other extreme of red pill. With the purple pill, a mixture of both - and I might add the color of royalty - you have the best of both worlds.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Do Tinder and Bumble.

Maybe I downplayed the situation, but after I told her my feelings, she kind of went crazy, telling me how much it meant to her, that she loved how confident and direct I was about it, and has been blowing my phone up waaay more often almost daily. She did a complete 180.

I woke up Sunday to a text asking if I was free later, because she wanted to show me more about her. Took me to some of her favorite places that "defined" her or something. I texted a followup Monday and she immediately wanted to see me that night. I was busy and saw her Tues instead. She was not even close to this eager before.

Agree there's a chance she's not that into me.. but surely there's room for case by case discretion, not just following some generic script of "if she doesn't X by Y then she's not interested". Her first college was an all girls school. Just doesn't read to me like the typical attention wh0re but maybe I'm in denial.

The main thing you want from a woman is interest. And you are getting it in spades here. She may just be the kind of woman that likes to go slow.... and that's great isn't it? Because you know she hasn't been through a ton of men and likely emotionally disturbed.

I think situations like this involve a bit of a balancing act. You don't want to simply project the mantra that all women are one way or the other [red or blue pill]. You need to keep an open mind towards her, give her the benefit of the doubt, whilst always looking to move things forward... at a pace that she is comfortable with....

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

The point was to say, when a woman says "friends" I'd take it with a grain of salt. It means one of two things:

1) You have a chance if you aren't clingy or chase
2) I liked you, but your weak behavior turned me off

Yes, I don't see connection and erotic tension as mutually exclusive.

 

[flowtheory]

The main thing you want from a woman is interest. And you are getting it in spades here. She may just be the kind of woman that likes to go slow.... and that's great isn't it? Because you know she hasn't been through a ton of men and likely emotionally disturbed.

I think situations like this involve a bit of a balancing act. You don't want to simply project the mantra that all women are one way or the other [red or blue pill]. You need to keep an open mind towards her, give her the benefit of the doubt, whilst always looking to move things forward... at a pace that she is comfortable with....

Dude. He really likes her and he’s allowing himself to be in the friendzone while he doesn’t want to be in the friendzone because her attraction isn’t high enough and she has huge emotional baggage because she hasn’t gotten over her ex from 10 years ago! Not to mention going at her pace isn’t allowing him to get what he wants.

OP! You can do better and invest your emotion and time more wisey. WALK AWAY. WALK HARD. If she cares so much she has to create a sexual interaction and start opening up about her real feelings.
There’s SO many good women out there so stop fooling around and go get one of em and let this emotional leech go.

 

[marmel75]

I normally wouldn't but this situation might be different?

Been hanging out with this girl for about 3-4 months. We click great and have loads of fun together but she resisted getting too physical saying she moves slow, doesn't like to be touched, and hasn't been with someone in a long time. I respected her wishes but still made gentle attempts to escalate. Sometime around Easter she went cold, said I was moving too fast but she mostly wanted to be alone. I was very nonchalant and we left things amicably.

After about two weeks of NC she texts me out of the blue. Long text about wanting to be friends, how much she would value me in her life, etc. I said sure no problem with no expectations.

We text a few days later and she tells me "I've been thinking about you lately, you were really kind to me". So we hang out a few days later and she opens up about getting hurt a long time back and hasn't dated much since then. Uses friends first as a defense mechanism to build trust and get to know who a person really is before getting emotionally attached.

Then a week ago she asked me to be direct about my feelings. Told her I know she moves slow but is worth waiting for, that I thought she was the sweetest girl and it'd break my heart if anything happened to her, that we have chemistry that's hard to find and worth fighting to keep, etc.

She was shocked and elated I felt that way, had thought she meant very little to me, had no idea I cared that much, and now her interest level has seemed to skyrocket. She's has been initiating contact almost everyday and initiated to see me Sunday and Tuesday. A massive leap forward in frequency. Sunday in the car I told her crystal clear I value the friendship, but want to see this grow into more when the time is right. She agreed.

It's seems like things have taken a positive step forward and she clearly came back on her own, but I'm still somewhat skeptical. She's great at dropping lines here and there like I'm special and the only one (ex: I would never do X with guys but I am with you), while at the same time being aloof and somewhat closed off. Very possible it's legit and she needs time to build trust and comfort as she claims, but it's kinda weird and has forced my guard up to a degree.

Women are different from men. They can legitimately like spending time with a guy they would NEVER bang.

Unfortunately for you OP, this is the boat you are in. You are basically saying to her "I have no value or self respect for myself so I will let you do whatever you want to me and will hang on hoping things move forward at some point"

You have no frame, you are far too invested in her and there is maybe a 1 percent chance that anything happens with her, if that. She is simply keeping you around because she might genuinely like spending time with you in a platonic way. Not to mention the continuous validation and ego boosts for her while giving you NOTHING in return. What kind of "friend" continually takes without giving anything in return? One that doesnt really give a crap about you, and one who has NO RESPECT for you, that's who.

You are basically accepting this by agreeing to keep spending time with her. The more time you spend with her and say all these nice things the more you dry up her vagina because she sees what a "nice guy" you are. Her respect for you as a man is non-existent.

Women who are interested in guys just dont act like this. At least not for any real length of time. This is what guys need to understand. When a woman says "she isn't ready or wants to take things slow or is confused" it means she is. With YOU!! Be assured that when she meets a guy she is really interested in none of these things will be a problem and she might bang him on the first date.

OP, stop believing this bullcrap she is feeding you and start looking at her actions and if you are not getting what you want out of this then why are you letting her waste your time??

Wake up OP. Its her world and you are in full orbit.

 

[Dingo]

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Tell her "NO". You will not be friends. If she's really interested in you she will do what she has to do.​

 

[DrStranglove]

Man you guys are awesome. So glad I posted this. It's a horrible place to be emotionally when you like someone and have emotional investment but can't get a clear answer where you stand.

So I've processed these posts and have come to this conclusion:

I know last weekend she agreed about the wanting to see it grow into more than friendship, maybe her way of giving it a "chance" -- but I need to see action and some emotional investment on her part, not an agreement to a statement I made. I'm not going to sit around hoping because that's emotional turmoil. Unless you boys have a better way or suggestion that's exactly what I'm going to tell her. She loves that direct talk. She doesn't have to drop her pants or commit to exclusivity tomorrow but I need action not words on some level. Maybe holding hands in public, spending more time together, a kiss goodbye. If that's too much to ask then I have my answer, and I already feel better knowing I'll be taking control of the situation not just letting her treat me any type of way.

 

[DreamAgain]

Man you guys are awesome. So glad I posted this. It's a horrible place to be emotionally when you like someone and have emotional investment but can't get a clear answer where you stand.

So I've processed these posts and have come to this conclusion:

I know last weekend she agreed about the wanting to see it grow into more than friendship, maybe her way of giving it a "chance" -- but I need to see action and some emotional investment on her part, not an agreement to a statement I made. I'm not going to sit around hoping because that's emotional turmoil. Unless you boys have a better way or suggestion that's exactly what I'm going to tell her. She loves that direct talk. She doesn't have to drop her pants or commit to exclusivity tomorrow but I need action not words on some level. Maybe holding hands in public, spending more time together, a kiss goodbye. If that's too much to ask then I have my answer, and I already feel better knowing I'll be taking control of the situation not just letting her treat me any type of way.

OP, don't do this. No direct talk, I promise you she will say she isn't sure and wants to stay just friends. She'll say some variation of that.

You need to go no contact with her for a while, give her terse, 1 word answers if she messages you. She will probably say something like what's wrong, respond with like "busy, can't talk right now."

Then down the road, after some time, you reconvene in person and try to escalate, in person. There's no need to say anything direct, her willingness to reciprocate escalation will tell you all you need to know.

Spilling your guts is never a good idea, trust me as someone who's done this and ended up feeling like an idiot afterwards.

 

[marmel75]

Man you guys are awesome. So glad I posted this. It's a horrible place to be emotionally when you like someone and have emotional investment but can't get a clear answer where you stand.

So I've processed these posts and have come to this conclusion:

I know last weekend she agreed about the wanting to see it grow into more than friendship, maybe her way of giving it a "chance" -- but I need to see action and some emotional investment on her part, not an agreement to a statement I made. I'm not going to sit around hoping because that's emotional turmoil. Unless you boys have a better way or suggestion that's exactly what I'm going to tell her. She loves that direct talk. She doesn't have to drop her pants or commit to exclusivity tomorrow but I need action not words on some level. Maybe holding hands in public, spending more time together, a kiss goodbye. If that's too much to ask then I have my answer, and I already feel better knowing I'll be taking control of the situation not just letting her treat me any type of way.

You don't tell women these things you communicate them indirectly by simply being busy and if she asks what you are busy with tell her you are going out with a friend. It wont matter if its a guy or a girl she will automatically assume its a female.

If she has any interest in you in that way, she will get the message loud and clear.

You can't talk your way into her pants OP.

 

[sazc]

I normally wouldn't but this situation might be different?

Been hanging out with this girl for about 3-4 months. We click great and have loads of fun together but she resisted getting too physical saying she moves slow, doesn't like to be touched, and hasn't been with someone in a long time. I respected her wishes but still made gentle attempts to escalate. Sometime around Easter she went cold, said I was moving too fast but she mostly wanted to be alone. I was very nonchalant and we left things amicably.

After about two weeks of NC she texts me out of the blue. Long text about wanting to be friends, how much she would value me in her life, etc. I said sure no problem with no expectations.

We text a few days later and she tells me "I've been thinking about you lately, you were really kind to me". So we hang out a few days later and she opens up about getting hurt a long time back and hasn't dated much since then. Uses friends first as a defense mechanism to build trust and get to know who a person really is before getting emotionally attached.

Then a week ago she asked me to be direct about my feelings. Told her I know she moves slow but is worth waiting for, that I thought she was the sweetest girl and it'd break my heart if anything happened to her, that we have chemistry that's hard to find and worth fighting to keep, etc.

She was shocked and elated I felt that way, had thought she meant very little to me, had no idea I cared that much, and now her interest level has seemed to skyrocket. She's has been initiating contact almost everyday and initiated to see me Sunday and Tuesday. A massive leap forward in frequency. Sunday in the car I told her crystal clear I value the friendship, but want to see this grow into more when the time is right. She agreed.

It's seems like things have taken a positive step forward and she clearly came back on her own, but I'm still somewhat skeptical. She's great at dropping lines here and there like I'm special and the only one (ex: I would never do X with guys but I am with you), while at the same time being aloof and somewhat closed off. Very possible it's legit and she needs time to build trust and comfort as she claims, but it's kinda weird and has forced my guard up to a degree.

Long story short..... If she's into you/into you sexually, after 4 months you guys would be banging.

Here's the thing, maybe she IS into you. However, making you wait indefinitely for sex implies that she has head issues surrounding sex. You'll never out run those issues.

 

[MrWood]

OP: what is the longest length of time you have gone without talking/messaging ?

 

[DrStranglove]

OP: what is the longest length of time you have gone without talking/messaging ?

Probably like two weeks. Sometime around Easter she suddenly went cold after hanging out. I reached out with a call a week later and she told me I was moving too fast, she wasn't sure what she wanted, etc. I was super nonchalant about it and said "Cool, just don't want to spend time pursuing someone who doesn't want to be pursued". It was super amicable and she liked that I was upfront about it.

Then after about two weeks of not talking, she contacted me out of the blue and this all started up again.

I can withdraw attention as you guys suggested. Might also be a good opportunity for hot/cold as she told me this drove her crazy with a guy in the past and made him a challenge. The reason I was going to "talk" to her about opening up is because when I have been direct with her in the past it has had positive results, she says she admires my confidence to speak my mind and wants that in a man, and it has had positive results like earlier this week. Unfortunately the communication has dwindled since about Thurs but technically I didn't return her last text on Friday saying she had too much going on this weekend to hang out.

 

[MrWood]

I didn't return her last text on Friday saying she had too much going on this weekend to hang out.

because you know she is riding cawk all weekend, and its not yours

go NC again and date other girls

 

[Billtx49]

because you know she is riding cawk all weekend, and its not yours

go NC again and date other girls

Ditto
If she thought he was important to her life, she would make time to see him…

 

[sph21]

I can withdraw attention as you guys suggested. Might also be a good opportunity for hot/cold as she told me this drove her crazy with a guy in the past and made him a challenge.

I'm sensing that you want to ignite the spark by playing hot and cold. Don't play this this game with her. You have already lost. Hot and cold can only work if you've never been frienzoned in the first place.

she says she admires my confidence to speak my mind and wants that in a man, and it has had positive results like earlier this week. Unfortunately the communication has dwindled since about Thurs but technically I didn't return her last text on Friday saying she had too much going on this weekend to hang out.

Action always speaks louder than words. Women love to talk about everything. Talk is cheap. Don't fall for this. Always watch her actions. If her words aren't congruent with her actions, then always trust what her actions tell you.

Probably like two weeks. Sometime around Easter she suddenly went cold after hanging out. I reached out with a call a week later and she told me I was moving too fast, she wasn't sure what she wanted, etc.

An interested chick will come up with a silly reason just to get a piece of your time. If you never experience this, then her IL is low. Forget her and move on. She's not worth it.