My first post and I am glad to be here. Apologize if this is a bit long.
I wanted to run a few things by you guys and see if anyone has had the same experiences and thoughts I have. There are probably lots of things at play here, but I’ll try and give you a foundation to help address my concerns or questions.
I am 47 and been divorced about 5 years. I have pretty much lived online. Tinder, Bumble, POF, Match, etc. Over those 5 years I have probably had at least a first date with easily over 100 women ranging in age from 36 to 52. Of those 100+ there were probably only about 5 times that they didn’t want a follow up date with me. I’ve mastered the first date (with online girls). Also, I’ve had sex at least once with 50+ of those 100. Most of the others I wanted no part of or were just to disgusting to sleep with or too much work for not much payoff, etc. Some turned into a “relationship”, some turned into FWB, some were just one night of debauchery, etc.
The problem…they were all 4 to 6’s (with a handful of 7’s peppered in). (I don’t just rank by looks, I take personality, intelligence, and disposition into account). Adequate but would never introduce to my kids, bring to family, or think long term with. It took me maybe 3 years to realize I was having sex with girls below my value. When I first got divorced, I didn’t care who I met online. I was married for 19 years. I wanted to just go nuts and get the reps in. Learn. Needless to say I have become the master of train-wrecks. There was always something off with these girls. If they looked halfway decent online, they were pigs in person. If I got the rare hot one in person they were completely insane. Or they might have been a 9 in personality/emotional intelligence but like a 5 or low 6 in looks. Like something was always missing. Or I just didn’t feel I was dating where I “belonged”. But I started thinking this is it. So I would date them and then resent them because I wasn't being true to myself. I was talking myself into "staying" or liking these girls.
Based off feedback online vs in person, I am probably a 5 or 6 online – my pics don’t do me justice. I blend in most likely. Another face that wants to get laid. In person I am somewhere around a handsome 7. Also at my age, I have other things going for me. I am in shape, I train Brazilian jiu jitsu and compete all over the country (women find this interesting and it separates me from most guys online), I have a great job, can hold conversations, and have a side hustle writing fiction and selling it on Amazon. Also trade cryptocurrency and well read. I am also a good father so the women see this as well. This is all crap that women eat up because they are used to their loser ex husband.
But over the years, I have gotten more and more insecure because I realized I can’t seem to pull an 8 – 10 online. I’ve read tons of articles on how online dating is awful in many different ways. The women have a warped sense of their value online. They have pick of the litter. A 5 or 6 can afford to cherry pick, meanwhile in person they wouldn’t be looked at by half the guys they come across. And the 8’s and 9’s forget it. I can’t touch them online.
Hundred of times over the years I’d see a women online and think to myself – this one is in my wheelhouse. Probably a cute 7 in person. There is no way she won’t reply to me. And sure enough, nothing. It gets in your head after awhile.
I’ve tweaked my profile, split-tested profiles, multiple profiles, different pics, different profile bios. I basically get the same results with the exception here or there. The only thing I have not done is get professional pics done (like everyone has on Bumble). I’m tempted because guys have told me that usually gets them in front of 8-10’s. As long of course the pics convey the real you and she is not completely blindsided if you look completely different. Supposedly there are pro photographers out there who specialize in that crap.
I can’t seem to get the 8-10 on a date. Online is too “photo-centric”. But I know if I can get in front of these girls I am golden. And even if my success rate plummets, I’ll take it. I have high value for women in my age bracket and if they are online dating also then they know what’s out there and my value rises as they get to know me throughout the first date. These women have been cheated on, stood up, had crap marriages, met insecure ******* dudes, etc. They are easy for any guy who has their **** together.
I want to know – has anyone around my age had this phenomena happen to them? Is there a fix? An approach that works? Strategy?
After 5 years, my confidence is shot as far as real life approaches go. I have to work on that – I know. It’s in my head now that I am not that attractive physically because 8-10’s won’t look at me online. I am average in pics but have been told time and time again that I am way better all around in person. I haven’t approached a girl since high school. College doesn’t count – that was too easy – and then I got married. I have no “real world” game.
Is Online Dating just toxic and attracts a certain cross section of single people that are damaged and have a warped sense of their value?
Am I hiding online because it’s a buffer? It’s easy to be rejected over and over online.
Should I just go old school? Which terrifies me by the way. What if it is true and I can't attract 8's-10's? I work from home most days. Which means I am in coffee shops and bookstores almost every single day. I am usually dressed casual but neat and clean and well groomed. I think I have a presence at least? I try the eye contact stuff (I don’t stare like a psychopath) but man these women are naval gazers, they don’t look anywhere. 80% walk around like they have a shield around them, “don’t look at me”. So I attribute that to me. They won’t look at me. They don’t notice me. They won’t take a second look at me after a first. It’s in my head now. I also realize, coffee shops attract married women and girls who are focused and on the run so that knocks out like 50% or more.
The minute I see an attractive women IRL – my default is “well she is like an 8. And 8’s want nothing to do with me online so she won’t even look at me IRL." But of course a 5 may do the look back and eye contact. It takes the wind out of my sails.
Is online a different animal than in person?
Any feedback or advice on any of the above would be appreciated.
I wanted to run a few things by you guys and see if anyone has had the same experiences and thoughts I have. There are probably lots of things at play here, but I’ll try and give you a foundation to help address my concerns or questions.
I am 47 and been divorced about 5 years. I have pretty much lived online. Tinder, Bumble, POF, Match, etc. Over those 5 years I have probably had at least a first date with easily over 100 women ranging in age from 36 to 52. Of those 100+ there were probably only about 5 times that they didn’t want a follow up date with me. I’ve mastered the first date (with online girls). Also, I’ve had sex at least once with 50+ of those 100. Most of the others I wanted no part of or were just to disgusting to sleep with or too much work for not much payoff, etc. Some turned into a “relationship”, some turned into FWB, some were just one night of debauchery, etc.
The problem…they were all 4 to 6’s (with a handful of 7’s peppered in). (I don’t just rank by looks, I take personality, intelligence, and disposition into account). Adequate but would never introduce to my kids, bring to family, or think long term with. It took me maybe 3 years to realize I was having sex with girls below my value. When I first got divorced, I didn’t care who I met online. I was married for 19 years. I wanted to just go nuts and get the reps in. Learn. Needless to say I have become the master of train-wrecks. There was always something off with these girls. If they looked halfway decent online, they were pigs in person. If I got the rare hot one in person they were completely insane. Or they might have been a 9 in personality/emotional intelligence but like a 5 or low 6 in looks. Like something was always missing. Or I just didn’t feel I was dating where I “belonged”. But I started thinking this is it. So I would date them and then resent them because I wasn't being true to myself. I was talking myself into "staying" or liking these girls.
Based off feedback online vs in person, I am probably a 5 or 6 online – my pics don’t do me justice. I blend in most likely. Another face that wants to get laid. In person I am somewhere around a handsome 7. Also at my age, I have other things going for me. I am in shape, I train Brazilian jiu jitsu and compete all over the country (women find this interesting and it separates me from most guys online), I have a great job, can hold conversations, and have a side hustle writing fiction and selling it on Amazon. Also trade cryptocurrency and well read. I am also a good father so the women see this as well. This is all crap that women eat up because they are used to their loser ex husband.
But over the years, I have gotten more and more insecure because I realized I can’t seem to pull an 8 – 10 online. I’ve read tons of articles on how online dating is awful in many different ways. The women have a warped sense of their value online. They have pick of the litter. A 5 or 6 can afford to cherry pick, meanwhile in person they wouldn’t be looked at by half the guys they come across. And the 8’s and 9’s forget it. I can’t touch them online.
Hundred of times over the years I’d see a women online and think to myself – this one is in my wheelhouse. Probably a cute 7 in person. There is no way she won’t reply to me. And sure enough, nothing. It gets in your head after awhile.
I’ve tweaked my profile, split-tested profiles, multiple profiles, different pics, different profile bios. I basically get the same results with the exception here or there. The only thing I have not done is get professional pics done (like everyone has on Bumble). I’m tempted because guys have told me that usually gets them in front of 8-10’s. As long of course the pics convey the real you and she is not completely blindsided if you look completely different. Supposedly there are pro photographers out there who specialize in that crap.
I can’t seem to get the 8-10 on a date. Online is too “photo-centric”. But I know if I can get in front of these girls I am golden. And even if my success rate plummets, I’ll take it. I have high value for women in my age bracket and if they are online dating also then they know what’s out there and my value rises as they get to know me throughout the first date. These women have been cheated on, stood up, had crap marriages, met insecure ******* dudes, etc. They are easy for any guy who has their **** together.
I want to know – has anyone around my age had this phenomena happen to them? Is there a fix? An approach that works? Strategy?
After 5 years, my confidence is shot as far as real life approaches go. I have to work on that – I know. It’s in my head now that I am not that attractive physically because 8-10’s won’t look at me online. I am average in pics but have been told time and time again that I am way better all around in person. I haven’t approached a girl since high school. College doesn’t count – that was too easy – and then I got married. I have no “real world” game.
Is Online Dating just toxic and attracts a certain cross section of single people that are damaged and have a warped sense of their value?
Am I hiding online because it’s a buffer? It’s easy to be rejected over and over online.
Should I just go old school? Which terrifies me by the way. What if it is true and I can't attract 8's-10's? I work from home most days. Which means I am in coffee shops and bookstores almost every single day. I am usually dressed casual but neat and clean and well groomed. I think I have a presence at least? I try the eye contact stuff (I don’t stare like a psychopath) but man these women are naval gazers, they don’t look anywhere. 80% walk around like they have a shield around them, “don’t look at me”. So I attribute that to me. They won’t look at me. They don’t notice me. They won’t take a second look at me after a first. It’s in my head now. I also realize, coffee shops attract married women and girls who are focused and on the run so that knocks out like 50% or more.
The minute I see an attractive women IRL – my default is “well she is like an 8. And 8’s want nothing to do with me online so she won’t even look at me IRL." But of course a 5 may do the look back and eye contact. It takes the wind out of my sails.
Is online a different animal than in person?
Any feedback or advice on any of the above would be appreciated.
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