Online Poker !?
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SELF-MASTERY
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i play full tilt, star, and now party.
How are you doing at 1/2 4 tabling??? Are you playng 6-max like the CR guys advocate?
go lag go
How are you doing at 1/2 4 tabling??? Are you playng 6-max like the CR guys advocate?
go lag go
Create Reality
Master Don Juan
Poker is all about the Bluff. Learn to Bluff naturally and at the right times, not too much. When the other players think you have a low to nothing hand, raise the stakes on them in the second round of betting, when they have something in the pot already. Too many times I have gone in huge on the first round of betting and just lost the entire table, taking antes. Not very smart by pro standards but when you're playing with a bunch of drunken retards it works, lmao.
ryan killa
Don Juan
SELF-MASTERY said:
Fixed limit full ring is EXTREMELY boring(for me, and I think many people feel the same, although there is still a sizable amount of these games, but nowhere near the amount of 6max tables). Trust me SELF-MASTERY, 6 max is pretty fun(and profitable). I am constantly raising/3 betting, and am involved in many hands, hardly boring at all.
Your point on no limit being more profitable is spot on. When I've come across results from limit and no limit players(looking at a winning players results in both games), no limit has better results ON AVERAGE. No question, but although you may find it hard to believe, I find NL bores the hell out of me, much the way you feel about fixed limit.
Also, 10/20 NL is a FAR bigger game than 10/20 limit. A buyin of 2000 in 10/20 NL(all the good players buy in for the max), is 5 times the normal 400 dollar buyin of a 10/20 fixed limit game. I have read from numerous forums(who knows if this is true) that the 10/20 on stars is the toughest on the net, while, from watching the 10/20 fixed limit games, they don't appear to have anywhere near the amount of sharks in 10/20 no limit(I watch both).
Cheers.
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SELF-MASTERY
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How so??? I see more fixed limit guys going over to NL because of the profitablility of the game, but I think that it is MUCH easier to master and muliti-table several fixed limit games at one time. I've always label NL as an ART and Limit as a science, but I could be wrong.Skel said:
Ryan has me interested in playing limit 6 max.
In limit, the amount you can bet is set. Since the amount is often very small in relation to the pot size, you are correct in calling with many significant underdog hands. The ability to "protect" a hand is greatly diminished. With that being said, more people are likely to call you when you already have the hand won.
Decisions in no-limit have greater consequences. Most mistakes in limit cost you a bet, or in the worst case a contested pot. Making a mistake in no-limit and you wind up blowing 10% of your entire bankroll
As I stated above more people call you when you already have the nuts in limit. fewer hands are played to the river in no-limit meaning less money
Also No Limit is more psycological. Limit you can acutally learn to play mechanically and grind out the small pots for money where in NL you are looking for 1BB an hour.
Just keep in mind this is my opinion and not every pros opinion. In fact this is widely debated but I do play for a living so maybe Im on to something or maybe limit is simply best for me. But when I was first learning the game this is what I was taught.
Decisions in no-limit have greater consequences. Most mistakes in limit cost you a bet, or in the worst case a contested pot. Making a mistake in no-limit and you wind up blowing 10% of your entire bankroll
As I stated above more people call you when you already have the nuts in limit. fewer hands are played to the river in no-limit meaning less money
Also No Limit is more psycological. Limit you can acutally learn to play mechanically and grind out the small pots for money where in NL you are looking for 1BB an hour.
Just keep in mind this is my opinion and not every pros opinion. In fact this is widely debated but I do play for a living so maybe Im on to something or maybe limit is simply best for me. But when I was first learning the game this is what I was taught.
SELF-MASTERY
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Skel, what is an acceptable win rate per hour or /100 hands at limit??? I've just got through railbirding a 2/4, 10/20, and 30/60 game and I think that I could beat all of them... even the 30/60:crazy:
It appears that limit is COMPLETELY mechanical and basically show down poker, the bets are so small compared to the pot that you always have pot odds to play almost any drawing hand. My NL mind is spinning from some of the action that I saw. I'm thinking bet pot, bet pot, then I realize that I'm watching a limit game. It reminds of the time I entered a limit tourney by mistake and I was looking for the slider to go all in-- DOH
What books or other resources do you suggest for learning limit?
It appears that limit is COMPLETELY mechanical and basically show down poker, the bets are so small compared to the pot that you always have pot odds to play almost any drawing hand. My NL mind is spinning from some of the action that I saw. I'm thinking bet pot, bet pot, then I realize that I'm watching a limit game. It reminds of the time I entered a limit tourney by mistake and I was looking for the slider to go all in-- DOH
What books or other resources do you suggest for learning limit?
I cant give you a % but consider this. Before I considered quitting my full time job and playing this is what i calculated daily in my head before I mad the plunge.
Even if you have been having a good long winning run at the 10-20 level (say, six months of regular play), that's not necessarily enough time to judge yourself. It's probably more realistic to hope that you can make one big bet an hour, and a $20 an hour job, with no benefits (health insurance, paid vacation, retirement, etc.) isn't such a terrific job. Figuring a 40 hour week, that's 40k gross a year, before all the taxes and living expenses. That doesn't leave much room to handle unexpected expenses or savings in that budget. Most players who play for a living need to play at higher limits, and the opposition at higher limits is tougher
This is actually quoted from somewhere, but i had copied it to my harddrive a long time ago and use to use this. Now I realize you probbaly dont care about going pro but im just giving you the idea that i based my playing on so take it for what its worth.
As far as books, the best book for me was super system. Super system 2 is out and I hear its real good but havent read it yet. Also anything by David sklansky is gold too learn but its mind boringly dull and very hard to get through.
The best resource for me however would actually be poker forums such as 2+2 because you can actually go there and post hand histories and ask others advice. However you have to be careful because some people are idiots and will give you ****ty advice. Really the best way to learn is just to read and to play for a few years and lose lots of money.
Even if you have been having a good long winning run at the 10-20 level (say, six months of regular play), that's not necessarily enough time to judge yourself. It's probably more realistic to hope that you can make one big bet an hour, and a $20 an hour job, with no benefits (health insurance, paid vacation, retirement, etc.) isn't such a terrific job. Figuring a 40 hour week, that's 40k gross a year, before all the taxes and living expenses. That doesn't leave much room to handle unexpected expenses or savings in that budget. Most players who play for a living need to play at higher limits, and the opposition at higher limits is tougher
This is actually quoted from somewhere, but i had copied it to my harddrive a long time ago and use to use this. Now I realize you probbaly dont care about going pro but im just giving you the idea that i based my playing on so take it for what its worth.
As far as books, the best book for me was super system. Super system 2 is out and I hear its real good but havent read it yet. Also anything by David sklansky is gold too learn but its mind boringly dull and very hard to get through.
The best resource for me however would actually be poker forums such as 2+2 because you can actually go there and post hand histories and ask others advice. However you have to be careful because some people are idiots and will give you ****ty advice. Really the best way to learn is just to read and to play for a few years and lose lots of money.
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the difference of whether or not limit or no limit is better is simply a matter of perspective. like mastery, i enjoy NL much more.
mastery. im playing 6max on stars. it's alot of fun and after 30k hands (i know, small sample) it's been pretty profitable. i work full time and my winrate is a hell of alot better than what i make at my job right now. i've had some real good swings and some bad ones, and each time i'm learning to take them better and tilt much less. the true test is when i have a long break-even stretch or a long losing stretch. that will be the true test of whether or not i can handle the vairance(luck factor) of poker.
my advice to anyone who wants to try poker seriously is to make sure you're disciplined. i've gone broke quite a few times before i finally learned how to manage my money and play proper stakes that my money allows. i believe this is the most important aspect in becoming a winning poker player.
mastery, PM me you're screen name on CR and ill do the same
mastery. im playing 6max on stars. it's alot of fun and after 30k hands (i know, small sample) it's been pretty profitable. i work full time and my winrate is a hell of alot better than what i make at my job right now. i've had some real good swings and some bad ones, and each time i'm learning to take them better and tilt much less. the true test is when i have a long break-even stretch or a long losing stretch. that will be the true test of whether or not i can handle the vairance(luck factor) of poker.
my advice to anyone who wants to try poker seriously is to make sure you're disciplined. i've gone broke quite a few times before i finally learned how to manage my money and play proper stakes that my money allows. i believe this is the most important aspect in becoming a winning poker player.
mastery, PM me you're screen name on CR and ill do the same
hitsurume
New Member
Hey Everyone
Its amazing to see more people talk about Poker.
I've taken the dive into online poker this week and am going through some books such as Short stakes holdem, super systems 1 and 2, and others.
I've started playing the lowest possible micro limits at stars to try to gain some experience and deal with mental swings and such, but so far its been pretty fun.
What do you guys think about funding my bankroll through my part time job? I have about 200 in neteller, good enough almost for 25c/50c limit, but I wonder if I should just deposit more and try 1/2 limit.
Worst part so far is that i'm at a loss at 2cent/4cent haha, but I guess have to get use to all the loose players at those tables.
If anyone wants to tutor or trade SN's, give me a PM
Hitsu
Its amazing to see more people talk about Poker.
I've taken the dive into online poker this week and am going through some books such as Short stakes holdem, super systems 1 and 2, and others.
I've started playing the lowest possible micro limits at stars to try to gain some experience and deal with mental swings and such, but so far its been pretty fun.
What do you guys think about funding my bankroll through my part time job? I have about 200 in neteller, good enough almost for 25c/50c limit, but I wonder if I should just deposit more and try 1/2 limit.
Worst part so far is that i'm at a loss at 2cent/4cent haha, but I guess have to get use to all the loose players at those tables.
If anyone wants to tutor or trade SN's, give me a PM
Hitsu
Tomatoes
Master Don Juan
Check my sig.....do you rekon i play poker. I average about 20 hours a week. I make enough off poker but then I make enough off my job too so no reason to quit either....
You can find me on 888.com or Pacificpoker.com as the poker side of things is known.
You can find me on 888.com or Pacificpoker.com as the poker side of things is known.
I would not suggest funding your bankroll throgh your part time job unless you have a full time job :nono:hitsurume said:
Keep in mind playin micro limits is good to learn some poker but once you hit 2/4 limit and higher the way the game is played is totally different so the micro limits really not going to help you other than to get use to the software.
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SELF-MASTERY
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Sneaker I just buy Green Plastic and MuddyWater videos. I should become a full member, so that I can view all the vids and have access to the rest of the site.
Micro-limits-- Stay away...
Pacific Poker-- EWW who would want to play there?? I know about all the fish, but they have the worst poker software and game format... I might try to shortstack the 10/20 NL there.
Sklansky, he has the be the best poker theorist of all time, but his books are a pain to read. Save NLTP--- The best book for a NL player.
Skel, Sneakers and others: Are you sticking to rigid bankroll requirements:
300 BB's for Limit, 50 Buyins for NL ring, and 30 buyins for SNG's???
Wish me luck I'm taking a shot at the 109's (SNG) in the next hour.
Micro-limits-- Stay away...
Pacific Poker-- EWW who would want to play there?? I know about all the fish, but they have the worst poker software and game format... I might try to shortstack the 10/20 NL there.
Sklansky, he has the be the best poker theorist of all time, but his books are a pain to read. Save NLTP--- The best book for a NL player.
Skel, Sneakers and others: Are you sticking to rigid bankroll requirements:
300 BB's for Limit, 50 Buyins for NL ring, and 30 buyins for SNG's???
Wish me luck I'm taking a shot at the 109's (SNG) in the next hour.
hitsurume
New Member
Hmm, well if I shouldn't fund my bankroll with my Part time Job, and my bankroll only has enough for around 25c/50c or 50c/1d, how should I proceed in moving up in poker?
I understand how the higher limits is definitely different, but I wouldn't want to play out of my bankroll for those limits.
Thanks for the reply though
Hitsu
I understand how the higher limits is definitely different, but I wouldn't want to play out of my bankroll for those limits.
Thanks for the reply though
Hitsu
SELF-MASTERY
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Hitsurume,
Play SNG's where the correct Bankroll is around 30 buyins. For the $6 SNG's you only need $180 and once you earn $330 you can move up to the $11's and so on.
I'm a big fan of SNG's because they follow a basic strategy: Play the first few rounds like a cash game (tight) and stay out of trouble, and start to open more pots around 50/100 on up. Bubble play (4 players left in a single table sng) You have to play looser and steal blinds. Checkout 2+2's site for more info on SNG strategy.
Last, but most important, SNG's are low risk, the most you can lose in one session is your buyin.
BTW micro limits suck because you dont really learn anything playing against awful players.
Good Luck
Guys I came in 2nd in my first shot at a $109 SNG and I busted out on the bubble in my second attempt... My trip KINGS ran into a Flush that I feared, but I just had to call because my opponent was a major donk, and didn't deserve much respect (bad call or good call I can live with it.) Some of the guys at that level suck at post flop play, but then again after the blind get high you have to push or fold... Anyway I was shocked by how some of the lines these guys were taking. Now I know my fear of these players wasn't called for.
Play SNG's where the correct Bankroll is around 30 buyins. For the $6 SNG's you only need $180 and once you earn $330 you can move up to the $11's and so on.
I'm a big fan of SNG's because they follow a basic strategy: Play the first few rounds like a cash game (tight) and stay out of trouble, and start to open more pots around 50/100 on up. Bubble play (4 players left in a single table sng) You have to play looser and steal blinds. Checkout 2+2's site for more info on SNG strategy.
Last, but most important, SNG's are low risk, the most you can lose in one session is your buyin.
BTW micro limits suck because you dont really learn anything playing against awful players.
Good Luck
Guys I came in 2nd in my first shot at a $109 SNG and I busted out on the bubble in my second attempt... My trip KINGS ran into a Flush that I feared, but I just had to call because my opponent was a major donk, and didn't deserve much respect (bad call or good call I can live with it.) Some of the guys at that level suck at post flop play, but then again after the blind get high you have to push or fold... Anyway I was shocked by how some of the lines these guys were taking. Now I know my fear of these players wasn't called for.
hitsurume
New Member
I know from reading forums and books that no matter what, there will always be fish/donks in any limit at any game, its justing finding the fish pond thats harder at the high limits =P
But yea, I like microlimits so far from learning to play with the amount of loose players, although I know as the limits get higher, the players get tighter, I can atleast be at ease in a real life cash games, where people basically emulate the microlimits; this is atleast how its like in the casino's i've been in for the 2/4, 3/6 limits.
Thanks for the advice so far!
Hitsu
But yea, I like microlimits so far from learning to play with the amount of loose players, although I know as the limits get higher, the players get tighter, I can atleast be at ease in a real life cash games, where people basically emulate the microlimits; this is atleast how its like in the casino's i've been in for the 2/4, 3/6 limits.
Thanks for the advice so far!
Hitsu