One on one

[Brooks]

sucking other dudes, fvcking other dudes and you allow it.

This is a major assumption and projection of fear too. There is no fact of this.

 

[Glassguy]

A coffee meeting and cheating are two different things

No they are not. A forest fire starts with a spark.

Please enlighten me.......why is she going on a coffee date with another guy if she wants to be with you>

 

[Brooks]

No they are not. A forest fire starts with a spark.

Please enlighten me.......why is she going on a coffee date with another guy if she wants to be with you>

She’s testing to see if I’m actually going to trust her.

Before our fight two weeks ago, I was not in any emotional control. I would engage in huge rounds of questioning and mistrust that subsequently would lower attraction but it would show her how much I cared; this created toxicity though. I was not seeing my value. It led to me blowing up at her one night. Insecurity was the motivator. She wasn’t giving me security and I felt that was her job in a way. It’s not.

This guy has been orbiting since the start of her and me. Given the timing of her now going to see him. It seems like a test. To see if I will stick to my word and ACTUALLY trust her and give her freedom. To see if I am reactive in the same way I was before; I haven’t been.
She has even stated that where we are now in our relationship is so much better. We just had our 6 month anniversary on Wednesday. And she has made efforts to see me and reach out.
So if she was ready to cheat or bail, she wouldn’t be doing those ACTIONS

Yea sure a fire starts with a spark. If she says she is going with him again, I would then put my foot down and tell her I am really not comfortable with this certain guy and her hanging out; which is fair.
And if she doesn’t oblige me and respect how I feel, then that would be more indicitive of how she really feels about our relationship

 

[highSpeed]

She’s testing to see if I’m actually going to trust her.

Before our fight two weeks ago, I was not in any emotional control. I would engage in huge rounds of questioning and mistrust that subsequently would lower attraction but it would show her how much I cared; this created toxicity though. I was not seeing my value. It led to me blowing up at her one night. Insecurity was the motivator. She wasn’t giving me security and I felt that was her job in a way. It’s not.

This guy has been orbiting since the start of her and me. Given the timing of her now going to see him. It seems like a test. To see if I will stick to my word and ACTUALLY trust her and give her freedom. To see if I am reactive in the same way I was before; I haven’t been.
She has even stated that where we are now in our relationship is so much better. We just had our 6 month anniversary on Wednesday. And she has made efforts to see me and reach out.
So if she was ready to cheat or bail, she wouldn’t be doing those ACTIONS

Yea sure a fire starts with a spark. If she says she is going with him again, I would then put my foot down and tell her I am really not comfortable with this certain guy and her hanging out; which is fair.
And if she doesn’t oblige me and respect how I feel, then that would be more indicitive of how she really feels about our relationship

but you've already set the precedent. She wants to go hang out with some other guy, you said ok. Now she wants to do it again. Explain to me your grounds for saying no? Can't pull sh*t back once you've given it. You can justify all you want but no good, this isn't going to work.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I have been working on my behaviour and it has adjusted greatly in the last two weeks. My emotional control is way better than it was and it’s reaping positive effects.

Everything you’ve stated above is true.

We had a talk the day we almost broke up about one on ones with members of the opposite sex. We said we would allow it, because there has to be trust. And it’s more about trusting the partner, than the other individual. Ripping her a new one because she wants to spend HER time with someone else isn’t the way to go.

I agree with the ‘if she was happy with me completely she would shut it down’ statement. But the fact is we just about broke up two weeks ago, and one night before this coffee meeting she still expressed emotional hurt over me when I lost my cool which has caused this mess; at least some.

So now she’s testing like a Mofo and I’m simply trying to figure it out. My frame needs to be rebeuilt and I’m in the process of doing that. It takes time. Can’t just INSTANTLY change. She has even said she feels like she’s dealing with a completely different person lately.

But lashing out again and saying KICK ROCKS at this point in time would go right back to my original behaviour which made her on edge inthe first place. And if I did that it would look like I was jealous - at this given time. I have to give her this space and show I can trust. But if she continues to do it, then I assert my boundaries. But before I never had them.

Even if you dont respond those tests degrade any power you have. Shes reducing you to "one of the guys". If it was a real male friend he wouldnt mind dropping by and meeting both of you together.

What highSpeed said about her setting the precedent to hang with other guys holds true. Now that she opened the door look for more of the same going forward.

 

[Brooks]

but you've already set the precedent. She wants to go hang out with some other guy, you said ok. Now she wants to do it again. Explain to me your grounds for saying no? Can't pull sh*t back once you've given it. You can justify all you want but no good, this isn't going to work.

I could keep my calm and simply state.. “this guy clearly likes you. I was fine with it the first time but it simply too close for comfort for it to be an on-going thing”. And i state that in a very calm, non emotional manner. Then if she objects I state ‘that’s how I feel’. What she does with that after is up to her.

Just because something was okay once doesn’t mean it has to stay fixed within that if it is coming at a cost of something greater.

 

[Brooks]

Even if you dont respond those tests degrade any power you have. Shes reducing you to "one of the guys". If it was a real male friend he wouldnt mind dropping by and meeting both of you together.

Well the BBQ he had he did invite me as well. I told her I didn’t want to go. She respected that.

I don’t think me not responding degrades me when she tests. It simply is just me being unresponsive; which is an answer. She didn’t get a ride like she thought she would.

 

[highSpeed]

I could keep my calm and simply state.. “this guy clearly likes you. I was fine with it the first time but it simply too close for comfort for it to be an on-going thing”. And i state that in a very calm, non emotional manner. Then if she objects I state ‘that’s how I feel’. What she does with that after is up to her.

Just because something was okay once doesn’t mean it has to stay fixed within that if it is coming at a cost of something greater.

There's a lot wrapped up in this. This is a power struggle that you can't win, except for walking away. Even if she agrees with you this time, it's going to come up again. Now it's going to be coming at you from a you being controlling perspective. Once you've been put in that box, you're discussing/arguing something with one hand tied behind your back. She wins the moment the "controlling" label sticks. Boo hoo, you're asking her to not hang out with a guy that is romantically interested in her, blows my mind that this is even an issue.

Bottom line, she doesn't respect you and/or the relationship enough to not hang out with other guys. Look, you were hanging out with other women that were romantically interested in you, unless she flat out didn't give a sh*t about you or the relationship, she'd have a problem with it.

Why fight with someone who you are obviously not aligned with on expectations for a serious relationship? This is most likely going to be a constant struggle. And the deeper you get with her, the more power she's going to have. Get married, she's going to go out pretty much as much as she wants with other guys. Have kids with her? Sh*t, you might as well be her servant/slave. She can do whatever the f*ck she wants, with no oversight or control/input from you. The most amount of control you have with her is now and look, she's already over stepping bounds. This isn't going to get better with time or with more commitment, that's only going to make it worse.

 

[Brooks]

There's a lot wrapped up in this. This is a power struggle that you can't win, except for walking away.

You’re certainly rightbin this. There has always been a power struggle. She’s even stated: ‘I usually go for effeminate men, or that type because I always feel more safe with them’
Essentially she’s saying she likes to be in control. And this is reflected in a lot of her actions.
She has stated - even the other night - how many women check me out and they just don’t even try to hide it. This coffee date is probably to give her a sense of control or to show me she has options too; justbin a petty manner.

She wins the moment the "controlling" label sticks. Boo hoo, you're asking her to not hang out with a guy that is romantically interested in her, blows my mind that this is even an issue.

Saying how something makes me feel isn’t controlling. Because like I said before.. if I say how I feel and she doesn’t respect it, then I use silence and distance. And if no change.. I drop and walk away.
It blows my mind this is happening too a bit. Never experienced it before.

Bottom line, she doesn't respect you and/or the relationship enough to not hang out with other guys. Look, you were hanging out with other women that were romantically interested in you, unless she flat out didn't give a sh*t about you or the relationship, she'd have a problem with it.

The one time I did hangout one on one or have said I may in the past, she has been up in arms.. so clearly she does care about the relationship.
I don’t know if she’s not respecting me by having a coffee with some guy who she has overtly said she friend zoned. She doesn’t have many close friends, so it could be to fill time.. and use as a test against me.

Why fight with someone who you are obviously not aligned with on expectations for a serious relationship?

We do have the same value in monogamy. And cheating and what’s right or wrong. This is a grey area for sure though as much can be misinterpretated.
It doesn’t have to be a struggle if I just voice some of my discomfort when it arises, and her as well. I mostly just have to remain unaffected.
And like @RangerMIke said, if she’s going to cheat she will. Nothing we can do.

She only has as much power as I grant her. If I get jealous and all that, she will have more. If I don’t or am non reactive, she has ZERO. If I say it makes me uncomfortable if she goes again, she still has little power. Because if she decided to continue to develop something new with a guy who makes me uncomfortable then she doesn’t respect herself, me, or the relationship.. so it would be adios at that point.

 

[AttackFormation]

There are multiple ways to approach this and either could work. But personally, I would disagree with any advice of telling her to stop what she's doing. First, acting out won't prevent her from cheating if she wants to, it will just give her a heads up to hide it. Second, if she feels something is fine and she wants to do it while you don't and feel she is disrespectful, that simply means you two are incompatible long term. I think the workable way to have a relationship is not to try to force your values on her but to find a girl who shares your values. So you have a choice: allow her to see this guy and stay with her (which again, she may simply switch to doing in secret even if you act out), or state diplomatically that you two are unfortunately incompatible and leave.

 

[Brooks]

Second, if she feels something is fine and she wants to do it while you don't and feel she is disrespectful, that simply means you two are incompatible long term.

We did agree that we would trust each other and go off of our own moral guidelines about who’s correct to hangout with and who is not.

Because we didn’t want to have the hard rule of ‘youre not allowed to hangout with anyone of the opposite sex’ it didn’t seem healthy or I’m aligned with a trusting relationship

 

[oldmanofthesea]

The one time I did hangout one on one or have said I may in the past, she has been up in arms.. so clearly she does care about the relationship

Not necessarily. I'm not trying to say she does or doesn't, but merely open your eyes to there being other possible reasons for her being up in arms over that. Women dump guys and after dumping them, get crazy jealous when they see the guy out with another girl. Yet they won't get back together with the guy. Or if they do, it's only to prove to themselves that he still wants her and when she gets that validation, she dumps him again. It's basically an insecurity thing, and/or a dominance/control thing. Based on what you describe above, she is dominant so keep that in mind.

 

[AttackFormation]

We did agree that we would trust each other and go off of our own moral guidelines about who’s correct to hangout with and who is not.

Because we didn’t want to have the hard rule of ‘youre not allowed to hangout with anyone of the opposite sex’ it didn’t seem healthy or I’m aligned with a trusting relationship

Well like I said, either you stay with her or you leave her but don't bother trying to change her.

I can just speak from my personal experience that her behavior of hanging out with another guy 1 on 1 would not be a good sign to me.. Not so much because I would suspect cheating immediately, but that she is not suitable for a ltr with me because of her manipulative or validation-craving personality. I don't believe in controlling her life, I just don't think this is something a girl would do if she either respected you (then she wouldn't do it at all) or thought you respected yourself (then she would hide it). Likewise, it'd probably feel a bit weird to call up your friend's girlfriend to hang with her 1 on 1, right?

Your decision to make though.

 

[Brooks]

Well like I said, either you stay with her or you leave her but don't bother trying to change her.

I can just speak from my personal experience that her behavior of hanging out with another guy 1 on 1 would not be a good sign to me.. Not so much because I would suspect cheating immediately, but that she is not suitable for a ltr with me because of her manipulative or validation-craving personality. I don't believe in controlling her life, I just don't think this is something a girl would do if she either respected you (then she wouldn't do it at all) or thought you respected yourself (then she would hide it). Likewise, it'd probably feel a bit weird to call up your friend's girlfriend to hang with her 1 on 1, right?

Your decision to make though.

Yea this is a good point.

I do believe it is highly manipulative. And she is doing it for external validation. All of which is not good or healthy if I’m coming from a place of health

 

[Brooks]

open your eyes to there being other possible reasons for her being up in arms over that. Women dump guys and after dumping them, get crazy jealous when they see the guy out with another girl. Yet they won't get back together with the guy. Or if they do, it's only to prove to themselves that he still wants her and when she gets that validation, she dumps him again. It's basically an insecurity thing, and/or a dominance/control thing. Based on what you describe above, she is dominant so keep that in mind.

But we haven’t broken up. And her being jealous would show her care of what we have. Fear of losing me.

If she didn’t actually want to be with me, I think she would be okay breaking up with me.
I don’t think she’s with me just to know she can have me? She does make effort in our relationship.


I might be interpreting what your saying incorrectly.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

That's not how women usually work. And no, it's not always out of fear of losing you that she gets jealous. In my previous post I explained other reasons for her reaction that have nothing to do with her wanting you.

Usually when women exit a relationship, they start the process long before they make the final exit. How this looks varies from woman to woman but usually it starts with them talking to other guys, and also testing you, to see if your reactions make it easier to justify dumping you. Many women have a guy lined up before they break up.

 

[Brooks]

Or if they do, it's only to prove to themselves that he still wants her and when she gets that validation, she dumps him again. It's basically an insecurity thing, and/or a dominance/control thing. Based on what you describe above, she is dominant so keep that in mind.

so she’s just proving to herself that I want her. It’s based out of insecurity and need for validation?

Usually when women exit a relationship, they start the process long before they make the final exit. How this looks varies from woman to woman but usually it starts with them talking to other guys, and also testing you, to see if your reactions make it easier to justify dumping you. Many women have a guy lined up before they break up.

Oh God. This is what’s happening. But I’m passing the tests.. so this is what is causing her confusion and hesitation to pull the plug..
This guy is the guy she’s going to fal on to to soften the blow..?

Sh!t... she hasn’t reached out since yesterday early in the morning (a short text that had nothing to do with our relationship).. this is a bad sign right? Her not even confirming plans this weekend or just saying ‘hey’?

 

[Glassguy]

You're being her cuck.

You're not passing any "tests". Failing miserably if anything.

No woman would respect any man that allows what you are allowing.

This woman will NEVER submit to YOU.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

That's not how women usually work. And no, it's not always out of fear of losing you that she gets jealous. In my previous post I explained other reasons for her reaction that have nothing to do with her wanting you.

Usually when women exit a relationship, they start the process long before they make the final exit. How this looks varies from woman to woman but usually it starts with them talking to other guys, and also testing you, to see if your reactions make it easier to justify dumping you. Many women have a guy lined up before they break up.

When women have you in a role or position in their lives they dont want to lose you. You may have been reduced to a non sexual friend. But she wants to keep you locked in that position. Having another babe come along and desire you for herself will be met with competition. So they literally not desire you and dont want anyone else to desire you.

 

[Brooks]

You're being her cuck.

You're not passing any "tests". Failing miserably if anything.

No woman would respect any man that allows what you are allowing.

This woman will NEVER submit to YOU.

No woman would respect a guy who gives her freedom? Lol come on man.

This is a relationship.

Getting her to submit to me would be me doing what exactly? Telling her what she can and can’t do? Punch her in the face? Shag another woman?
What would you suggest?