One man's perspective on the looks debate

[soldier]

I'm a natural. My story is that when I was younger, women naturally gravitated towards me and I got a LOT of p%%ssy. The reason I came to these forums is that things suddenly changed for me about 2 years ago. Women were treating me much differently, and I couldn't figure out why. My jokes weren't being laughed at. I wasn't getting checked out as much. I was still getting laid, but not consistently and the quality wasn't there, either. I was having to settle for less, and my confidence was shaken.

So I came to the forums and checked out a lot of the material. I said to myself, "hey, I already do that." What's going on? It dawned on me that most of the quality interest that I was drawing was from women that I already knew. I wasn't getting anywhere with strangers anymore...so, looks HAD to be the problem.

I never had elite looks, not even close. But when I was younger, I was definetely above average. I never worried about dressing with style or anything like that, and it never hurt me. I'd show up at the bar in shorts and a tshirt when all the other dudes were all decked out, and I'd still be pulling the birds with ease. But as I got into my late 30's I put on some weight and lost some hair. I went from firmly above average to average.

In the last couple of months I've lost 20 pounds and changed the way that I dress. Now, I may not be on the same level that I was when I was in my early 20's, but I'm above average again. I'm still balding, but the angles in my face are back, and I have to tell you, the difference in getting girls is just astounding. It's like night and day. My jokes are funny again. I'm getting checked out. I'm getting approached by quality women, even quality young girls, wherever I go. It's just amazing.

I have to conclude based on my experience, that looks don't matter, yet they do. There is a certain minimum standard that you need to have to consistently attract women. I think you need to be above average, which is very attainable for most average looking guys simply by changing diet, working out, etc...

Thoughts?

 

[AreYouSingleFemale]

Can you post your before and after pics?

 

[bigneil]

I agree soldier. I've noticed that when I look good, women hit on me; when I look ok, women avoid me. The idea that men choose is laughable.

 

[Borknagar]

The "look don't matter" debate is mainly made up by gurus who are trying to sell a "how to get women" product for men. They wouldn't sell nearly as much if they didn't make up a scheme claiming that looks don't matter as much as we think. Looks do play a large role, no matter what some people like to think.

 

[gaspipe]

I agree that looks do matter but what about the idea that looking too good, I mean having model looks can also hurt because women would be too intimidated to approach or wouldnt take you that seriously?

Hence, the complaints ive seen posted here which basically says women ignore/dont approach me because Im too good looking.

 

[soldier]

The "look don't matter" debate is mainly made up by gurus who are trying to sell a "how to get women" product for men. They wouldn't sell nearly as much if they didn't make up a scheme claiming that looks don't matter as much as we think. Looks do play a large role, no matter what some people like to think.

BUT I don't believe that you need to be a head turner. I think it's like a lot of other things when it comes to girls, girls don't like average guys. And unfortunately for some of us that weren't blessed with model good looks and height, looks are the very first thing they notice. I even believe average or below average looks can be overcome, but not without time and patience. And I for one am too lazy to put that much work into it.

Average is average for a reason. MOST of us are average as much as we don't want to be. I can still be above average, but in order to do so I have to maintain a lean face. It was a huge pain in the ass to lose the 20 pounds, trust me...but thankfully once it came off it's not that tough to maintain.

BTW I'm not going to post before and after pics, no offense to anyone but I really don't want someone I know running into this. Like I said, I'm not 20 anymore.

 

[soldier]

I agree that looks do matter but what about the idea that looking too good, I mean having model looks can also hurt because women would be too intimidated to approach or wouldnt take you that seriously?

Hence, the complaints ive seen posted here which basically says women ignore/dont approach me because Im too good looking.

Based on what I know of women, I highly doubt that you are as good looking as you imagine yourself to be (edit: or whoever is making these complaints). Not trying to be a douche, but really good looking dudes always have girls after them in my experience.

 

[Aaron B]

The idea that men choose is laughable.

some men choose

some women choose

 

[Sparky]

I believe that women not only go for "looks" but go for presence, posture, the way you walk, talk, etc. - so it's possible to be good looking but spoil it by having a negligible presence, and be average looking and bump that up by having a strong presence. You know what I mean.

Perhaps something has changed in your presence or confidence as of late?

 

[influencemaster]

Look IS important. It's a fact

 

[evansblue]

I've always kept my distance from the "looks" threads, but I figured I might as well throw in my two cents.

Me, being a good looking guy have had an easier time with women. I've been with many different girls. However, I've also had my fair share of rejections. I'm sure some of the women that rejected me even found me attractive, yet I wasn't able to get anywhere with them.

The bottom line is this: A group of guys will see at a "hot" chick and all of them will bang her. But if you show a "hot" guy to a group of girls they might think he's attractive, but either the guy will be too skinny, doesn't have dark hair, dresses wrong, has a bad job, etc.

Women are much pickier when it comes to type. The ones that date jocks generally stick to jocks. The ones that date tall skinny guys usually stick to tall skinny guys.

Men don't care about the girl's clothes. We don't care if she's a brunette or a blonde. What she does for a living means nothing. If she looks good, we will shag her. Period. Hell, even if she doesn't look so good, most will bang her anyway.

Women have standards. Men don't.

 

[Escobar600]

in my experience its been easier to get women if you are goodlooking and have decent game, compared to if you have spectacular game but are damn ugly.
in the end if you and your friend are both talking to a chick at a party even if you have amazing game alot of the time if your friend is alot better lookin she will probably end up with your friend since as soon as she looked at him she was at least somewhat attracted to him. compared to you who will have to BUILD attraction from ground zero. and if your friend is a natural its pretty much game over.

being attractive is a more universal asset compared to game which depends more on the girl

 

[scribblec]

i think the most important thing is to believe you look good when you look at yourself in the mirror, i cant explain it but when i used to have low self esteem 5 years ago and didnt think i looked good then i didnt really get anywhere

now i believe im the best looking guy in the world (even though im not) but past successes just fuel these beliefs and now when i look in the mirror i see a hansome guy staring back at me and i dont believe all that has changed in the past 5 years

 

[Atom Smasher]

This is something I've been mulling over lately.

Think about it... women spend their entire lives working on perfecting and maintaining their appearance to the highest degree they can. Therefore they value attention to looks, and it makes an impression on them when a man shows attention to looks and style.

It's not a matter of innate good looks. It's a matter of showing that you're aware and are making some kind of effort.

Regarding fat, I have learned that being a few pounds overweight makes a huge difference in attractiveness. When I'm at my normal weight, I get LOADS more attention than, say, after a holiday where I put on a few pounds.

Fat is a deal-breaker, as is a lack of attention to appearance. Those "gurus" are dead-wrong. Women do nothing but work on appearance. Therefore they are keenly cognizant of it in men, and it makes a huge difference.

 

[aura]

When men outnumber women and you have to make a positive impression very quickly (sometimes instantaneously) looks play a big factor.

 

[HolyG]

thanks for sharing.

 

[movistar]

Soldier, this is my story exactly. When I was younger I would hear women comment when I walked by. Not elite, but firmly above average.
I gained weight in recent years and the crap I used to pull just wasn't working, chicks would next me so much easier. In the last year I decided to change the diet and work out seriously because of a tough situation I was in. Working out and hitting the gym was the only thing I could afford. I lost the weight and got pretty lean with abs, the whole package. I too have lost my thick hair and have had to go to a super low cut.
Now I am pulling chicks again, young and hot ones, get much more attention.

Guys, do yourself a favor and get in shape, it's the best thing you can do for yourself. If I'm feeling a bit down, I wake up, go to the bathroom and look at myself without my shirt, and my day gets a little better.

 

[Mike32ct]

Agreed. I've been saying this for a while.

in my experience its been easier to get women if you are goodlooking and have decent game, compared to if you have spectacular game but are damn ugly.
in the end if you and your friend are both talking to a chick at a party even if you have amazing game alot of the time if your friend is alot better lookin she will probably end up with your friend since as soon as she looked at him she was at least somewhat attracted to him. compared to you who will have to BUILD attraction from ground zero. and if your friend is a natural its pretty much game over.

being attractive is a more universal asset compared to game which depends more on the girl

 

[CuriousGirl]

Don't forget it's probably your confidence you've gained from getting back in shape that's made a difference to. It's amazing how the smallest of changes to the way you come across can change with confidence, you might not notice but others, especially women, will.