On the brink of cheating

[scrouds]

Lol...of course, but they'll just retard my fat loss progress

Why would it do that?

 

[Slickster]

No man, particularly on this site, should be ok with his wife sexing him up on her terms. If she fails to meet her wifely duties in the sex area, you should go seek it elsewhere.

Agree 100% !!!

It is most certainly her job to fvk him when he wants.

Sounds like a good theory. However we all know in reality it just doesn't work that way. Aside from hired help or holding a gun to her head, you aren't going to find a woman who will actually "want" to fcuk you any time you desire.

There is a big difference between having sex with a partner who WANTS to fvck you and one who HAS to fvck you.

I'm talking (and advising) the OP about having a good healthy and IDEAL relationship. Which is why we are here right?

As I said previously "This is how things should work".

..when she gets married, she gets all of the security and money she wants. The exchange in turn is that he gets her sexuality.

He cannot, in any way, turn off that security short of kicking her @ss out the door. Her obligation in turn is to keep him sexually satisfied.

God knows I am sure you men don't want to go to work every day just so she can have a roof over her head, or get her nails done, or not have to do the myriad of things that men are supposed to do to keep the woman feeling safe and secure, but by God we still do it.

This is backwards thinking IMO. If you enter a marriage contract based solely on the idea that you will essentially support a woman financially in exchange for sex, then you have doomed yourself from the start! You have basically married a wh0re. Whose fault is that???

I know a lot of men fall into that trap and believe "that's just the way it is". Once again I'm speaking about ideal relationships and how things should work.

 

[window]

yes sex should be based on mutual desire not a negotiation...

 

[Slickster]

SLickster what is your view on conflict. So when a woman brings the negative drama some say standing up to her ? arguing your point ? will spin the hamster more. So my question is does remaining in control and not getting sucked into the arguments raise interest level more. I suppose you can say no sometimes without having to get in a fight...

Every situation is different but depending on the woman and the issue I may simply try to diffuse it or even walk away if she is being completely unreasonable. In some cases I'll stay silent and let her spin in her emotional whirlwind until it subsides. Only choosing to give her attention when she has reached a calm state. (Sounds like the Dog Whisperer, doesn't it?)

Marital and relationship bickering is usually over stupid things anyway. Little annoyances that are masking deeper issues. If you can recognize this and speak about the real issues in a controlled way you can avoid many arguments.

My good friend lets his wife throw dishes at him and yells and screams when they disagree. That simply wouldn't happen in my relationship. My wife knows it would be over in an instant.


Loss of control = Loss of respect

Loss of respect = Loss of IL

 

[Buddha_Mind]

I've been in a similar situation and wanted to make a few comments:

-The points Slickster outlined(Challenge, Confidence, Control) are very solid advice. That is the key to a lot of what you are experiencing. Don't allow yourself to get down on a woman's level.

-I used to give in to the sechs thing anytime my exwife wanted it as well. It got to the point that it was always on her terms. I had to be the initiator 95pct of the time and that gets real old. She had total power and I gave it to her. Well here's a new flash for you AFC's still in the dark....women handle POWER very poorly in every single facet of life. They are also never happy when they have all the POWER. So don't give it to them. They'll be happier and you will to.

I'll never forget the first ltr I had after my divorce when my gf at the time wanted sechs and I told her no. I think I must have been the only male in her history that had ever told her no. It definitely got her attention and she stepped up her game after that.

So what I've done since my divorce is make sure I turn them down. I reject my girls advances 30pct of the time. It tends to keep the power balanced and they work a lot harder for your affection.

-Here's another thing when she oversteps her boundaries too far and you want to reel her back in.........just stop caring. Don't let her actions effect you. Be indifferent to it. Start working on YOU. Her little hamster wheel will start to rationalize why you aren't providing her attention that you once provided! The one who cares less always has the most control.

-"Sechs" for a man is pretty much the equivalent to "Attention" for a woman. ;-) Ponder that for a while.

-Girls work for you, you don't work for them. Its that simple.

- I understand you wanting to talk to her mother. You have to be very careful what you tell her mother and don't tell her much other than there are some issues. Her mother is not on your side at all. If you complain too much it will make you look weak even though I'm sure your complaints are valid.

-IF you must have sechs with some other woman, please be smart enough to hire a working girl. They go away and don't come back unless you pay them. You bring a civilian girl into your house for a romp and she'll wreck your life when she feels she's been done wrong.

-In regards to your wife becoming more active on Fbook...........she's reaching out for attention. She is looking for validation and she will find it on fbook. Be very cautious. A woman who has emotionally checked out of her marriage will succumb to another mans advances every time. Mark my word buddy.

Keep your head high, work on improving yourself. Realize that you both have created the predicament you are in. Its just not you. Also remember that its always best to do the right thing, because when schitt hits the fan and the dust finally settles at least you can live with yourself knowing you did the right thing. I've got an ex wife who acted just like yours is, she didn't do the right thing.....she checked out of our marriage.........fuhked another guy.......and then had a change of heart and regret set in. Guess what.......now she lives with that regret every day. She'll carry that emotional baggage with her the rest of her life. She'll have to lie about her past to every new man she comes across.

Goddam.n this is well written and insightful. Thx for posting this man, rep+ for this. I am going to give this decline of sex thing a try and see if I better understand this subtle power dynamic.



Slickster -- man your posts are blowing my mind here as well. Especially in regards to female conflict. It is SO EASY to want to get sucked into the emotional drama or let it get revved up. Remaining detached I would say for a lot of men is a challenge, but it is no surprise that by doing so this is a more attractive trait. The tree isn't shaken by the wind, eh?

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Chuck,
"As often said, assumption is the mother of all phuck-ups.".....Quite So.......But then perhaps we all survive by being the mutual dupes of each other,so I forgive you....
My assumption is,that you are the Young Lady who in a moment of innocence wrote to us,about a year ago,telling us she was writing novels,and how much she appreciated this opportunity to herself read real life experiences,that she might then weave into her literary creations....But your style gives you away,like an elegant lady you cannot dress down,you are a sophisticate even in torn blouse and jeans.....Subsequently you have written a number of disingenuous posts,under a variety of Nom de Plumes....Be that as it may,your beautiful phrases and the cadence with which they flow are a delightful change from the clumsy prose we are used to...you shall be our very own Tolstoy.

 

[IronStar]

I have no idea whether I'm being trolled or not on the internet, some very good ones out there (not saying OP is one, just something I noticed)

For anyone that falls foul of the missus pulling the no sex, passive/agressive card, below is something I found somewhere else years ago, if I'd only found it before my marriage headed south it might have saved me a whole load of ball ache / bought me some time. As advice goes, its gold in my book.

So many of these threads are about what you can and cannot control. You can't compel your wife to have sex with you. No she doesn't owe you sex.

At the same time - what do wedding vows look like? I promise to be true to you. I will honor and love you. I take you to have and to hold. Unconditionally. Too many people take those words as license to take their spouse for granted. Yeah, I can get fat. No, I don't have to be as charming. No, I don't have to **** you any more. Especially if you're not doing your share of the chores. Etc.

That's all bull****. Are you a better version of yourself than before you got married? If not, that's what you can control, full stop. They can choose to come along with you or not. If they choose not to, they shouldn't be surprised if you get your needs met elsewhere or you DTMFA. Note the complete lack of gender specific pronouns in this paragraph.

OP, there was a time when you wanted to go out of your way for one another. When the idea of being "inconvenienced" didn't matter. My advice to you is to make a hard effort to go back to that place. Do what you can on your side. If she's comes along, great. If she doesn't, find someone who will.

 

[Nutz]

I realize this is probably a day late and a buck short at this point, but rather than give you some overwritten response have a read of this:

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixteen-commandments-of-poon/

In fact, you should probably print it out and tape it to your bathroom mirror so you can read it every morning.

VII. Always keep two in the kitty

Never allow yourself to be a “kept man”. A man with options is a man without need. It builds confidence and encourages boldness with women if there is another woman, a safety net, to catch you in case you slip and risk a breakup, divorce, or a lost prospect, leading to loneliness and a grinding dry spell. A woman knows once she has slept with a man she has abdicated a measure of her power; when she has fallen in love with him she has surrendered nearly all of it. But love is ephemeral and with time she may rediscover her power and threaten to leave you. It is her final trump card. Withdrawing all her love and all her body in an instant will rend your soul if you are faced with contemplating the empty abyss alone. Knowing there is another you can turn to for affection will fortify your will and satisfy your manhood.

Words to live by. Every time I stop following this rule of thumb, I end up getting burned.

 

[ChuckNoRisk]

Dear Chuck,
"As often said, assumption is the mother of all phuck-ups.".....Quite So.......But then perhaps we all survive by being the mutual dupes of each other,so I forgive you....
My assumption is,that you are the Young Lady who in a moment of innocence wrote to us,about a year ago,telling us she was writing novels,and how much she appreciated this opportunity to herself read real life experiences,that she might then weave into her literary creations....But your style gives you away,like an elegant lady you cannot dress down,you are a sophisticate even in torn blouse and jeans.....Subsequently you have written a number of disingenuous posts,under a variety of Nom de Plumes....Be that as it may,your beautiful phrases and the cadence with which they flow are a delightful change from the clumsy prose we are used to...you shall be our very own Tolstoy.

With all due respect Scaramouche, I take umbrage at your assertion that I'm faking things. However, you also brought me delight by giving kudos to my writing. As someone currently stuck in the doldrums of anger and depression, due to my current issues with my wife, I'll choose to hold on to your positive comments.

To allay your fears about me being fake, can we ask the moderator to message you my IP address and the location where I'm posting from ...perhaps confirm that there's no connection between me and the novelist? Do you even have any member in this forum posting from an African country? :wave:

Oh, by the way, I'm not female either

 

[ChuckNoRisk]

UPDATE: The standoff continues...

Discussing the stalemate with my mother in-law has turned out to be my worst faux pas. Yesterday, she called me to find out when I was joining the family so that "we can discuss these issues in your presence". I told her it wasn't going to happen because of my work commitments, which, however, is a lie. No way was I gonna subject myself to a kangaroo court and probably walk out with my tail between my legs.
I noticed that my mother in-law's attitude was different from last week when I first discussed my problems with her. Then, she sounded embarrassed by her daughter's actions:even throwing in the "this-is-not-accectable" and "i-gonna-talk-to-her-as-soon-as-she-gets-here" lines. However,yesterday she came across as less sympathetic and was almost dismissive of the situation. Obviously my wife fed her with garbage about my transgressions and punishable offenses. I'm now the bad guy.
She took me to task for saying that I think her daughter has made up her mind about us going separate ways; she then went all sarcastic on me, saying that ,surely if her daughter was leaving the marriage, she would've left with all her stuff and bags. Reminding her that her daughter had in fact threatened leaving and that there were no goodbyes when she left, my mother in-law dismissed all of that, claiming her daughter was just acting out of anger.

Not to be outmanoeuvered by that trail of logic, I asked my mother in-law the following question:
"Had your daughter called and told you, mom, my husband has left and is going to spend Christmas with his parents....but he left without saying goodbye and he's been giving me the silent treatment for 2 weeks...he also even threatened with going separate ways, blah blah blah" , how would you've responded to her?

Predictable, she skirted the question, but I kept pushing and eventually, she said "son, you're asking me something I won't be able to answer" . Can you believe that shyte?

I went on to tell her that clearly, her efforts to make her daughter see reason didn't work , because my wife is still maintaining her intransigent attitude, hasn't tried to contact me and continues to "release" Facebook messages on her wall, making pronouncements about how happy she is being with family,etc. I see this as
an attempt crumble my resolve and bait me into losing it, and eventually respond. I've gone completely AWOL from Facebook, because I figured any activity and posts on my wall would be perceived as a childish retaliatory act.

Now hear this; my mother in-law didn't give a clear answer to my remark that her efforts to talk to her daughter hadn't worked. Her response was "the plan was to talk to both of you together, and we were hoping you'd join us for Christmas". After that, she started talking about other issues not related to my problems, like our normal business-as-usual conversations :when are you coming to see us? Dad was really looking forward to seeing you? etc . Almost like there's no storm brewing in our midst.
This to me sounds like she was just feeding me with half-truths and she never sat down with her daughter to talk. I've lost all respect for her. Is there anything worse than a biased and deceitful mediator? Ah, well, what was I thinking to even believe she'd be impartial. Indeed, blood is thicker than water...or as some say, blood is thicker than mud!

My closing statement to my mother in-law was that she must just leave things as they, because I'm done talking. I've made a decision to not discuss with her anything related to the stalemate with her daughter. As if things aren't complicated enough, my father in-law has been ill ( had a stroke) for a while now. I'm just laying off because I do not want to pile pressure on them, seeing that they are already dealing with another challenge.
However, that doesn't mean I'm backing down.I'll maintain my position and continue to withdraw from any further engagements. I just wonder what my wife is thinking on how things will proceed when she gets back. Proceed as normal, like nothing ever happened? Well, I have something in store for her.

For now, the transformation continues and I had an intense workout at gym today. Last night I hung out at a friend's place and had drinks and bbq.

As for the cheating, I couldn't do it. A window of opportunity presented itself.I spent 4 hours of with one of the females who's recently entered my orbit. We were at her place and even though she wanted to, I failed to launch. I guess that's what marriage does to a man.

Anyway, guys, enjoy your New Years, and I hope all your wishes and dreams will come true.

Once again, thanks for the advice and insights.

 

[Jaylan]

OP, you said "I have started going to gym, because I had gained a lot of weight and got fat, whilst she lost weight and is looking hot. "

Dont you think someone wouldnt be keen on having sex with someone who let themselves go? This happens in marriages alot because partners think they can let themselves go now that they think they have their spouse for good. I wouldnt be surprised that shes not attracted to you anymore because of it.

Either way, you wouldnt want someone to cheat on you, so dont do it.

Just get a divorce. You two are not sexually compatible. If you can change that by getting in shape, then do it.

Staying married and potentially having kids with someone you are incompatible with would be a bad choice though.

Discuss things with her, become separated, then go meet new women.

 

[heyray11996]

Just to add some additional perspective, I am a recovering AFC whose marriage was not necessarily bad, but I noticed somethings were not right. However, your situation is beyond comprehension, and I would suggest do all that you can to save it and change yourself to become a better man. See what the response is from your wife and YOU make your decision.

Anyway much has been provided as advice and I am going to share with you that the advice here simply works, and I know from experience.

Five years ago I stumbled on this site and I started reading and realized that I knew next to nothing and had been using the media paradigm as the basis for interacting with women and my wife. Basically, I was doing this all wrong, and was meeting and getting women on the strength of my personality without understanding the foundation of the interaction between women and men for many years.

Even after getting married I was in the dark and operated in AFC mode without even knowing it.

Anyway, I read the Book of Pook and other entries and it all became clear. Now, to let you know I have been married soon to be 15 years to a great woman, however, I was not taking lead. There were hints along the way, but I never noticed them. Hints like when we would go out for dinner I was indecisive then frustration would set in then she would make the call. Other times when I was clear about what I wanted, there was no problem. I simply didn't know or even notice the difference.

Again, I have a great woman who is more of the old school and doesn't have lot of issues. I think she was simply patient with me.

Now after I finished reading and taking in the comments and experiences of others I did the following:

1. started working out. I am not fat, but simply began to work on being healthy and started lifting weights, running and swimming.

2. Started getting involved with friends again.

3. Got a hobby; I started working on my pilots license.

4. Bought some decent clothes for work.

5. I openly disagreed with my wife on simple topics of discussion to offer challenges and see her reaction; Mind you this was to mix it up and not to create tension or problems. Here I was slowly showing that I was not a yes man or a doormat. I had a point or perspective different from hers and I was willing to state it.

6. If she called me I would tell her to wait a minute and say that I am busy and get to her when I was at a point to talk to her. Now, in a really important situation I will be there right away. Again, this is showing that I have work or things that I am doing that are equally as important and I will not drop them on a dime. Even for her.

7. Let her know ever so subtlely that other women would want me. Saying something like I am having to beat all of the ladies off me when I go out. Yes, of course I am joking, but she knows I am confident in me and my potential. I have generated a hint of competition

8. For me, I have been hurt before and know what that means and feels like. So, I am willing to walk if I have to. I know it would hurt like hell, but I know I am a catch, and I operate as such which I didn't before, and my wife knows this without me having to tell her explicitly.

With all of the above and other items not listed my walk in life literally changed.

There are a lot of other items I could share, but that would take more time and space than needed. I think you get the point. This took time, but I know my wife has high interest level in me, and is confident she has a leading man.

Finally,

1. This transformation will take time. How long and how fast is up to you.
2. Focus on making you a better man.
3. You make your best decision for you and your wife.

 

[Jeffst1980]

Chuck, good on you for taking all of our advice in stride. As you can see there are some pretty strong opinions on what you should do once a marriage goes sour. Only you know the full context of your story with her. I just want to reiterate too that it's not ALL you; owning your part in all of this is very important as a Man but let's face it, your wife's b1tchy, her-way-or-the-highway personality leaning is a HUGE component. Not all women would react that way given your behavior; but then again your behavior may have been different with a different woman. Relationships are dynamic.

Exactly. There are plenty of women that are NOT aggressive or domineering, and they typically require less "alpha"-ness to keep them in check. Of course, masculine women (such as the OP's wife) tend to couple with AFCs- probably because an alpha male wouldn't put up with their sh!t. This woman sounds like an extreme example of a masculine woman- so much so that I doubt that ANY man could get her to behave like a good wife. Game can make a woman interested in you, but it can't whitewash her extreme personality faults.

To the OP- this drama with the mother-in-law is just embarrassing. You DO NOT discuss relationship problems with a girl's PARENTS. They are obligated to take her side in the end, and it just highlights how wrong you are for their daughter.

I'm torn on the cheating issue in your case. I would never suggest cheating to anyone that has made a vow of faithfulness. On the other hand, you need to get out of this marriage, and I don't know that you have the courage to do so in your current, sex-starved situation. Since there are no kids involved, the only damage you would do would be to your marriage (which is all but finished) and your reputation. You have to ultimately decide if it's worth it.

Ideally? Don't cheat, but DO divorce this woman. Put your foot down and stand up for yourself, and refuse to let her manipulate and belittle you. The first step of your transformation is to kill your neediness by walking away on your own terms.

 

[EvilAgenda]

Once married, the sex diminishes. It is the things beyond sex that make a successful marriage.

Like a soldier on a battlefield, he may hate the war, but he will not abandon his brother-in-arms.

You sound like you rushed into marriage, not knowing how much of a commitment it is. But then again, you never know until you are married.
By the way, cheating is a stupid way to go. I disagree with Danger about 'go ahead and cheat but don't get caught'. If you want to maintain your integrity and self-respect, the marriage must end first. After that you can go have as much sex as you want.

To give you some positive thoughts... her behavior is her way of testing you how much of a man you are - Have you changed since you two got married, have you maintained your masculine polarity, have you become less of a man.

Welcome her capricious behavior, treat it with a sense of humor. She is a woman, and she will continue to do that and test you until the day you die. It's her way of reconfirming to herself that she still loves you, and you are still the man she married. Watch Rhett Butler in Gone with the Wind. Watch how he handles Scarlett once he marries her.

And just remember, same as in Gone with the Wind, there is always a point where you know that it is time to move on.

Good luck to you. And Happy New Years.

 

[sodbuster]

Just don't have kids for a few years... her behavior may come back,but then you'll be tied with her for life. Even with a Divorce, you'll have school functions,graduations,their weddings, etc. that you'll have to be civil to the b1tch. UNTIL you are FIRMLY in control of this woman and can be confident you are willing to put in the work necessary to keep it...no kids[something every woman wants].

 

[Slickster]

The reality is that a well trained woman will give sex up whenever her man wants it. I agree that a woman will never "want" to fvk whenever you want, but a well-trained woman WILL fvk you whenever you want.

If that is an "ideal" situation for you then that's great. I prefer a relationship that isn't a sex slave scenario. I'd rather have my woman jumping my bones rather than her lying there hoping it's over quickly.

Your entire marriage fills women with what they want, when they want it (security forever). I am simply stating that Men should be Men and stand up to get what they have purchased.

See, I don't agree with this at all. I would NEVER marry a woman who expects to be completely dependant on me financially. I expect her to pull her weight and contribute. It's so much more than just sex and money.

It does not matter if she doesn't feel like fvkking right now, because she will fvk right now as long as you carry the proper attitude.

Yep this works for a while and then her IL eventually starts dropping.

Yes you should always be improving yourself and keeping interest high, but you should never let a woman dictate the terms of sex. Ever. You will never win. Even worse, your frame will slowly start to erode.

I never said that you should let a woman dictate anything. My point was that if you keep her IL thru the roof then all this other BS is non-existant.

Again....Don't get trapped into the feminist-AFC mindset that it is ok for her to secure her needs from you without your own needs getting met.

Once again I agree 100%. I'm not sure who you are debating with here?

 

[BlackwaterPark]

She is too far gone for some kind of turnaround I think. Agree with those who say unplug and work on yourself. Personally I couldnt fault you for cheating when your wife is some ice queen, but thats up to you. In any case keep the channels with those girls open.

 

[Griever114]

Thats really sucks. I agree, woek on yourself but my neighborhood would never allow a divorce. They will lock you up with your wife till you sort it out. Sorry but if i put a ring on your fingee, its not gone till we.are both dead .

Give her time, if she doesnt come around, lay down the law.

But thats me.

 

[ChuckNoRisk]

Thanks guys for all your responses and advice.
I'm just wondering how, if things get sorted out, I should handle my mother in-law going forward. Her switching of positions from empathizing with me to a veiled support of her daughter has left me with a metallic taste in mouth. I used to treat her like my own mother and would talk to her regularly, but my liking for her has diminished following events in the last 2 weeks. I just don't know if I will even be able to talk to her. I now feel absolute revulsion towards her.

What do you guy recommend in this situation? I don't want to make it obvious that I have been deeply damaged by her deception. Should I just act like nothing happened, but just minimize my interaction with her? However, I know this will be "detected" and she'll raise it with my wife.

Frankly, I just do not even have any enthusiasm to maintain friendly terms with the rest of the family. I know they've been having a field day shredding my reputation and basically everyone in the family is partaking in the gossip feast. This is informed by how they've treated the other guy married to my wife's half sister( from her dad's first marriage).

 

[AMDG]

Thanks guys for all your responses and advice.
What do you guy recommend in this situation?

Leave with some bits of dignity or enjoy the ongoing abuse.