Old girlfriend- new game

[jophil28]

Recently started talking again to an old girlfriend from back in 1998. I broke up with her for reasons that now seem petty. Lets call her MA.
Anyways, she has done some minor cosmetic surgery, bought herself new boobies, and trimmed down - she looks better now than she did back then.
So she tells me that nobody wants to celebrate her birthday with her . She broke up with her last B/f almost a year ago and has lost touch with her girls.
Her daughters have their own life, and so on-
I suggest that we go out for some birthday dinner and some fun. She says "Hell, yeah..."
WE went out, had a good time. She brought up her ex B/f a few times and I just shut her down, " I'm not the right guy to talk with about him."

So she emails me twicve over the next two days with thanks and gratitude for the dinner and 'the good company'. I suggest that we go out again dancing in another week after Christmas. She agrees. I am thinking about seducing her, BUT she is still yearning for her ex. I am in the role of 'rebound guy', but I really want to so some serious things to her fine body..

My dilemma is this - I know what women want from the next couple guys they date after a breakup with an LTR B/F...they want ego repair and validation above all, and they usually get it for free from chumps who play "nice understanding guy".

So I hatch my devious plan.
I get to thinking about what I would advise a poster here who was in this situation.. . "Grab the frame, hold it tight- be unpredictable and make her work to get close to you.." and so on.

Firstly I emailed her - some fluff talk.
She emails me back today about her office comings and goings and how the coffee machine blew up...blah,,blah.. She also mentioned how she is still upset about something I did back in 1998 (details don't matter here) .Ah ha..here is my open window.

So i reply that I would like to talk to her face to face about her upset.
I continue telling her about how I expect a lot from a G/f and perhaps my standards are unrealistically high BUT that I am still strangely unsure of why we broke up. I then mentioned that I acknowledge that the opportunity for us to reconcile is long gone, but we have such a good time together we should make fine 'friends' WITHOUT ANY OTHER EXPECTATIONS..

THis should be interesting - my guess is that she will either agree with me to be 'friends', in which case, no nookie for Jophil OR she will feel undermined and unsettled by my LJBF manouver and try to hoover me into a closer connection by removing her panties.

Stay tuned - news at 11.

 

[Greasy Pig]

Love your work jophil. Good to see a fellow Gold Coaster working his magic. I have to say I've found Gold Coast women to be most hard to nail.
I've lived here 13 years and had more success in Brisbane for some reason. The women here seem so materialistic and almost always on the defensive.
I have a few theories about that but anyway, keep us all updated on your progress!!!

 

[Franky Four Fingers]

I don't know the full details of the intial breakup you two had in 1998 but this might be one of those lure him in with my improved looks and dump him as a form of vengence type of game for the breakup in 1998.

Just a thought.

 

[logic1]

Sidenote warning

Be careful of older women who have had cosmetic surgery and lost weight.

I met one who wore a body suit type under garment. Also a push up bra. Looked hawt with her cloths on. When she disrobed it was gross. Looked like cottage cheese. Rolls of loose flesh everywhere.

When older women lose weight and have cosmetic surgery its a crap shoot of what they look like naked.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

You're not "rebound guy", you're "sure thing guy".

Rebound guy is defined by being a fresh prospect, coming around conveniently at the end of an LTR. The rebounder is also generally an emotional tampon rather than (but not limited to) a sexual release for a girl. Status as a rebound guy is usually based on how involved her LTR was prior, and the terms and circumstances of the break up. For instance, if the old BF cheating on her was the catalyst for the break up, then there's a good chance you'll be rebound ƒucking her as both retribution and an ego-preservation function for her. If she split with the guy due to her own indiscretions, or the guy was simply too beta for her to endure any longer, then you're probably in for a long haul down the emotional tampon highway - or at least if you permit it - and the end result will be frustrating.

However, you're the 'sure thing' in this episode. AFC guys do this constantly, but it's not uncommon for women too. What tends to happen when we find ourselves at the end of an immersing LTR is that we look for what rewarded us prior to our involvement with the monogamous relationship. Naturally, monogamy requires the lion's share of our attentions, so when that attention is freed as the result of a break up, the automatic response is to seek out what had previously rewarded us with good feelings (sex). So we return to the 'sure thing'; the person, habit, behaviors, that rewarded us before. It's really just subconscious deductive reasoning.

When you lack options, the tendency is to go back to what worked before. It's the path of least resistance, because the perception is that it will be easier to return to that sure reward than to generate new rewarding situations (i.e. fear of rejection). The inherent problem with this is that, although this might work in the short term, what been rewarding before (in this case 12 years ago) has fundamentally changed.

All that said, I think you (or anyone) did yourself a disservice in this situation by preemptively LJBFing her. This is an overt declaration of terms for any interactions you may have thereafter. If the point is to be unpredictable or offsetting, then by framing anything after this declaration as 'friendly', you actually outline expectations for her, thus making yourself predictable. Now, cast this into her particular set of circumstances; she'd thought you were the 'sure thing', but now you're just a 'friend', not a sexual prospect. Any attempt you make to escalate this into something "more than friends" will now require you to get over the 'friends' obstacle YOU placed on your interactions from the outset. At the very least she'll think you're 'going back' on a condition you were never really serious about.

Always let women figure out for themselves why they wont ƒuck you, don't do it for them. Let a woman's imagination do the heavy lifting for you by being intentionally (but covertly) ambiguous about your purpose. You will always make a bigger psychological impact on a woman when she thinks she's figured out your intent after a period of doubt, than overtly spelling it out for her in big bold letters. This is why an element of bad-boy mystery is so vital for a Men. Nothing is more gratifying for women than to feel as though their intuition was correct about a man's covert intent, no matter how poorly hidden it may have been.

 

[grinder]

If it’s been a year since she broke up with her b/f then there are other issues above being the “rebound guy”.

First: Do you know if she has gotten laid in a year? Seems doubtful but is possible. If that’s the case then you don’t need no stinkin SoSuave skills, just ground and pound! Leave your brain in your other suit.

Second: You need to be more concerned with the clingy/attachment/seeking potential once you inevitably bed her. At our age we need agent Smith-like reflexes to dodge the hooks of ******.

Second point five: The “I’m disappointed in you..” reply which comes exactly 2.3 months (kidding...but seen it..) after you have bedded her and you are not complying with her wishes, which are, of course, an LTR with even more ominous overtones…..

Third: If she’s close to our age and out of any type of relationship so long then, frankly, she may not know how to conduct a relationship and this makes it easy to guide her to what you desire…..which, begs the question….what would that be?? I am in the same boat as you on this prickly question. I was about to post a FR on how, after sifting through a couple dozen, I have found a pretty decent one….now….what to do with her…..

 

[zekko]

I then mentioned that I acknowledge that the opportunity for us to reconcile is long gone, but we have such a good time together we should make fine 'friends' WITHOUT ANY OTHER EXPECTATIONS..

If this whole "LJBF" thing you have going on lately works out, you may have just invented a new strategy. Of course, it seems to contradict basic seduction principles in that you want her to think of you as a sexual being, and not in a platonic sense. But your reasoning seems sound. Maybe the fact that you have a sexual past makes a difference.

Honestly, I've never felt tempted to return to any of my ex-relationships (with the exception of a few short casual affairs where I didn't feel I ever got to get a full taste of them sexually). To me it would seem like going backwards, and I prefer to go forward.

 

[jophil28]

If this whole "LJBF" thing you have going on lately works out, you may have just invented a new strategy. Of course, it seems to contradict basic seduction principles in that you want her to think of you as a sexual being, and not in a platonic sense. But your reasoning seems sound. Maybe the fact that you have a sexual past makes a difference.

Honestly, I've never felt tempted to return to any of my ex-relationships (with the exception of a few short casual affairs where I didn't feel I ever got to get a full taste of them sexually). To me it would seem like going backwards, and I prefer to go forward.

This woman is an emotional mess to be honest...I have no thoughts of any kind of LTR with her.
I just want to sample the merchandise once or twice. THis will be 'sex with an ex' if it succeeds.

I take the point from RT that I am "sure thing" guy and that is why I did the LJBF thing.
After I broke up with her in 1998 , she found a new guy six months later and proceeded to have an LTR rollercoaster with him until they finally broke up at the beginning of this year. He has a new G/f now but occasionally takes MA out.
MA is one of those women who always" choose guys who are trouble". I am thinking that she loves the drama and the uproar even though she complains that she just wants a quiet life .. All her relationships have been dramatic including two marriages.

I am thinking that a LJBF move by a man may trigger a kind of emotional explosion in a woman...this is an experiment on my part. A LJBF move is really a sexual rejection and I am banking on her resorting to a woman' most basic tactic to lassoo me back.
I have established some comfort already with this woman.. When I took her out I added to the comfort (somewhat unintentionally) - now is the time to trigger her emotions before I do indeed become her "sure thing" and become trapped in my own LJBF manouver.
SHe knows about my other women. She knows that I have options and she knows that I will walk away because I did it back in the day.

THis will be fun-

MY take on

 

[zekko]

MA is one of those women who always" choose guys who are trouble".

I guess that explains her interest in you.

 

[jophil28]

Always let women figure out for themselves why they wont ƒuck you, don't do it for them. Let a woman's imagination do the heavy lifting for you by being intentionally (but covertly) ambiguous about your purpose. You will always make a bigger psychological impact on a woman when she thinks she's figured out your intent after a period of doubt, than overtly spelling it out for her in big bold letters. This is why an element of bad-boy mystery is so vital for a Men. Nothing is more gratifying for women than to feel as though their intuition was correct about a man's covert intent, no matter how poorly hidden it may have been.

Yes, obscure and sometimes contradictory behavior towards potential fvck targets has always served me well.
Your point is on the money about a woman's self satisfaction in feeling that her predictions about you were correct.It is as if they place such a huge value on their ability to gaze into the crystal ball and see "what he really wanted".
OF course her committee of girls is also recruited to engage in 'group gaze' ..ha.

 

[Die Hard]

I find your LJBF experiment very intriguing, Jophil. On the one hand, it seems to me that one would trap himself with this maneuver. On the other hand, your rationale behind it makes sense. So I'm very curious how this will play out...

But you already experimented with this strategy on the HB who was being manipulated by her psychiatrist, right? You never reported back on that situation, how did things unfold after that?

 

[jophil28]

But you already experimented with this strategy ( LJBF's) on the HB who was being manipulated by her psychiatrist, right? You never reported back on that situation, how did things unfold after that?

I have played my "friend" role in text book style .
I call her once a week and we chat like friends do. I have been out with her ONCE in the past three weeks- no touchy- no feely. She calls or texts three or more times a week. SHe made a point of telling me about her new gym membership and the latest additions to her wardrobe are being paraded in front of me.

She is outwardly bewildered by my actions in sticking her in the FZ...She feels rejected (she said so ). She has asked several times when when we are going to get "back to normal". I just dodged the question , or shrug my shoulders and mumbled, " how is Leanne, your shrink ?"
She has asked me a few times whether there is "someone else".
Not really sure what my next strategic move will be with her , but one thing is certain - I own the frame, and she is staying around ,as connected as ever.

An additional side benefit of sticking your woman in the FZ is the extra free time that is then available to explore other women who are applying for contention.

 

[Proselytiser]

Jo with the original HB are you likely to talk about other women? Or are you going to avoid that subject?

 

[jophil28]

Jo with the original HB are you likely to talk about other women? Or are you going to avoid that subject?

Well, to stay true to the 'friend' role, I think that I should act accordingly, and talking about other women falls inside that job decription.

However, I am going to really push this FZ experiment to the limits and extract all the benefits that I can.. I think that hinting, intimating, and being a little vague in how much I disclose about other women after an interrogation by HB will bring maximum reaction from her.. Thanks to RT for his clarity in explaining "competition anxiety "..

Curious isn't it - A month ago she was visiting her shrink and complaining about me to Leanne. I am sure that HB felt emboldened when Leanne' sided with her - they were going to put me 'in my place'. In spite of Leanne's sympathy, and her collaboration in an attempted shaming campaign, HB is now in my FZ, has had no sex for a month, and is almost begging me to take her back as a G/f.
In the same month. I have dated and dropped SW who also thought she could best me in several ways.
Then a week ago I was contacted by an old G/f (MA) who is looking quite fine and wants to "see" me but is now in the FZ also...and so it continues..

 

[Die Hard]

Nice ! So the strategy does seem to work huh?

 

[Joe Stud]

Hahaha You got the frame bro. Drivin her nutz. I like your style... keep updating us. even if you fail (which I doubt you will)

 

[zekko]

Freaking girls have been LJBFing us for years. I don't think I've ever heard it suggested that we turn the tables on them in this way. Very interesting, could be a whole new tactic here.

I wonder if HB regrets bringing up the friend zone in the first place. None of Leanne's ideas seem to have worked out for her at all, have they?

 

[Warrior74]

Don't get me wrong, I like the game you are laying down and I like how you are handling yourself, but dude are you getting what you really want? Where's the pvssy pounding or are you playing some sort of long game here? At the end of the day I want to get laid and not have to deal with too much bs. This seems all games and BS dealings and no fvcking. Clue me in.

 

[jophil28]

Freaking girls have been LJBFing us for years. I don't think I've ever heard it suggested that we turn the tables on them in this way. Very interesting, could be a whole new tactic here.

I wonder if HB regrets bringing up the friend zone in the first place. None of Leanne's ideas seem to have worked out for her at all, have they?

What I am detecting in HB is confusion. She (like a lot of women) believe that advice and support from 'the sisterhood' is a guarantee of success..
HB cannot figure out how the world that she believed she lived in is now flipped upside down.
I get the strong impression that she automatically believed that Leanne would give her some golden advice and some sure fire strategies, and that I would submit to her 'authority' and end up helpless and whipped by Leanne's cleverness..

I get the idea from a few things that HB has said that women arrogantly believe that men are stupid, clueless fools who can easily be controlled and brought to heel by the 'right' feminine tactic. (Perhaps they are right most of the time ?)

HB just cannot grasp the reality of the failure of that belief after I stuck her in the FZ..

 

[jophil28]

Don't get me wrong, I like the game you are laying down and I like how you are handling yourself, but dude are you getting what you really want? Where's the pvssy pounding or are you playing some sort of long game here? At the end of the day I want to get laid and not have to deal with too much bs. This seems all games and BS dealings and no fvcking. Clue me in.

Warrior, I have access to as much pvzzy as I want.
As I said earlier I am experimenting with a "LJBF" strategy. My theory is that women will willingly submit themselves to an orbiter role ( just like most men would ) rather than lose the relationship all together.
However even though I have 'stolen' the basic LJBF concept from women, my objective is a little different.

I am using this tactic as frame reclamation. It is that simple.
HOwever, it remains to be seen whether I want to continue dating these women later on.

I have also heard three times from MA after I "LJBF" her a few days ago via email- her 'tone' is decidedly more energetic and flirty.... interesting !