OLD feels like a waste

[christie]

The "$2 coffee date" is about the only leverage a man has on the personals. I haven't taken this avenue seriously in almost ten years, but back when I was invested, the coffee date was the most practical. For starters, if we have a few dates lined up, this is an inexpensive way to see if there's at least mutual chemistry.

I can't speak for other men, but if the woman doesn't appear glib, smug and has at least offered her phone number to speak (prior to the date) I'll suggest meeting for drinks and/or a bite to eat. Otherwise, she's regulated to meeting for coffee. But again, I'm not claiming that this is how men in your life have conducted things.

I understand what you're saying.

Perhaps its the realisation that she is just one of many $2 coffee dates he's got lined up, that she just throws her hands up last minute...."I'm out, I don't have a good vibe"
And they don't even bother to courteously cancel properly. Flake means a no -show at a predetermined time without any communication before that time to cancel, right?


In my past dates it was almost 100% split costs or 'dutch' for the dates.
The exception was the high school boyfriend who I lost by not complying to have children.
He was the one that did traditional, night-on-the-town type dates but we would always go at the less busy(cheaper) times of the week and I remember him using That's Entertainment coupons from a coupon book.
By the sounds of it here on sosuave, a lot of girls are coincidentally doing the same thing (flaking)with the last minute refusal to 'just be a coffee date'.

I know you brought up the word leverage but sometimes we have to change up strategy. To keep repeating the same pattern but expecting different results is madness.
What I was hoping to communicate was that if there was a paradigm shift, an attitude shift, the results may just make a girl feel special, giving her something to look forward to for the date and glow about after the date. In my first idea, she has a souvenir in the trinket he spent time getting and wrapping for her.

I'll think of another idea besides a giftwrapped trinket to stop them from flaking, I need more time.

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

id say theres something wrong with your text/message game if you are getting initial interest then losing them before they will even meet.

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

They give up after a few no-responses or rejections.

yeah but it seems he's getting responses initially but he's not sealing them with dates. Lot of competition in her message box so he has to stand out or be intriguing in the first few messages and hold her attention long enough to get that date. They are easily distracted by the next shiny thing that catches their eye.
But yeah, i agree its a lot of work and effort.

 

[Lookatu]

I think everyone has valid points and their experience will vary depending on where they fall into the spectrum of looks, technique, conversatioin skills, picture skills, level of effort, tolerance, etc.

But @BeExcellent hit it on the head if you wanna play the game and be successful.

1. Top notch photos
2. An interesting profile
3. Solid text game

I started out with crappy pics and eventually felt like a fool taking a lot of pics to finally get a good one. I've finally taken one good pic which has done wonders in terms of matches.

Pics only get you in the door by giving you a match. Having good convo next will get you to the actual date though. Interesting profile description isn't necessarily needed but it can help facilitate a good conversation starter if you lack skills in the texting game.

You can complain all you want, stay out of the game, or find ways to improve to do better. Those are pretty much your choices.

Put them up boys...

 

[Lookatu]

one more...

 

[Black Widow Void]

christie While I do love women, my focus on this site is to help fellow men. This isn't to appear rude or to discourage your presence here, but the energy I expend with a female on sosuave takes away from that mission.

The one thing you have going for you is that you appear honest. I'm certain that there are other members here that make postings; masquerading as men that are clearly women. And in addition (no matter the gender) I do believe that an honest question deserves an honest and direct answer. With the above being stated, here's a response.

Perhaps its the realisation that she is just one of many $2 coffee dates he's got lined up, that she just throws her hands up last minute...."I'm out, I don't have a good vibe"

In an ideal world, both parties would dig deep enough beforehand to establish a mutual interest and both have earned sole focus in the days leading up to that date. But that's not reality. We've all had a date lined up a few days ahead and meanwhile, we log back on the personals and answer other e-mails from other members. And.... we also notice that our future date is on line too. How can either party point fingers? They can't without being a hypocrite.

Also as men, we do not know if our future date also has and/or had other dates lined up. Do we really want to be their third free meal that week? Suggesting a coffee date can be a good screening process. If she's more into the atmosphere than her date, she's revealed a lot about herself. Personally speaking, this has freed me up to find someone more into substance than environment and this frees her up to find a schmuck that will cater to her before she's earned it.

And they don't even bother to courteously cancel properly. Flake means a no -show at a predetermined time without any communication before that time to cancel, right?

Yes, that's how I understand it. Also, this may be a bitter pill for you and other members here, but a lot of flake situations are partly your own fault. Prior to the date, did the other party invest any authentic energy into communicating? Sending a one sentence text back and forth doesn't count. Did they respond back in a timely manner? Did you (figuratively speaking) take a blind-eye to things that would ordinary give you pause? Chances are, the future date gave themselves away, but those tell-tale signs were overlooked and blind optimism took over.

For those reading, I'm no "Brad Pitt" but I've never been stood up on a personals date. I attribute this to doing some realistic screening beforehand. However, I have had several dates arrive late. My personal rule is that if I'm lukewarm, I'll stay five minutes passed the agreed upon time. If I'm a bit invested, I'll wait ten minutes.

A couple of times, I've driven slowly out of the parking lot only to see them pulling in (I'll turn around if the case). Other times, I've gotten the "where are you" text or call after the five/ten minute cut off period (in that case, I do not turn around). For those reading, I didn't lose any golden opportunities. First dates are about making a good impression. If this is their best side (and this is when you are trying to portray your best) then any date afterward will only be worse.

 

[Kotaix]

At the end of the day, these apps are a big money grab that are using men's sexual desires against them. We have to pay for boosts, professional photos, and the dates for the possibility of sex.

Guys are so desperate that they are praying paying and hoping that their date with a 30+ year old single mom doesn't flake/ghost on them.

This is very much a true point. I don't know if any of you have installed zoosk, but that "dating app" is literally a scam. The app is infested with bots that send you fake messages and you have to pay to unlock the messages. I wonder how many chumps are so desperate that they fall for it.

OLD is to men what the makeup industry is to women. Both are tools that each sex uses to get more attention from the opposite sex. Both make billions a year and are of dubious value to the majority of their users.

 

[christie]

It is interesting getting to know personalities on an internet forum over a length of time.
I think I can spot the women masquerading as men too.

It can be extremely challenging to respond without bullying or passive-agressiveness. I am still not good at it.

I feel for the guys getting hurt out there in the dating world. Reading about their mean experiences has opened my eyes to things I've done that must have been interpreted as mean although I wouldn't have meant them as mean, just thoughtless/careless/selfish on my part. I regret and feel I am dutybound to make amends to those men(I've never flaked on a set date but I've committed other grievances)
Its not possible to amend to men in the past without potentially hurting them again.

It was cool you made it a few more posts back and forth before judging my membership on this forum.(addressing member BWV) You're getting more patient and tolerant BWV, which are excellent skills for a masculine man to hold frame with.

I'll be careful not to 'validate' by 'liking' or replying directly to your posts so as to avoid judgement from you unnecessarily.

It is highly emotional to discuss men being hurt by women in the dating world. Its important to keep brainstorming and not give up or paint all women with the same brush. We can all solve this as a group, not just one poster ad hominum against another.

 

[Xanderson]

OLD are just full of insta hoes & baiters

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

That means you have bad photos, you can be fairly good looking and have bad photos, and/or you have bad text game, and/or your profile and/or your bad photos give neediness.

Sure on this site people recommend closing within 1st 3 messages. But your text game has to be tuned -
because response you get from her could be
silence
**** test
platonic
positive

Closing within first 3 messages when girl replied to you in 3 days that is closing while she giving you silence, and same with **** test, instead of passing it, you go ahead and close it, you will be ghosted.

There is a whole precedure for text game and closing, I wrote a guide in Tips sections, just nothing I come up with, just bunch of videos that helped me.

The most important thing is your photos, they have to be top notch. No selfies. No crap photos. Someone taking pic of you in public places, and you must learn how to pose properly.

Then your profile has to be written properly. Then you actually have to have text game, at least at the bare minimum be tuned and know where you are with her. It is so rare for women online that guy actually writes good to them, even more rare for a guy to have good pix, and even more so rare for a guy to have a nice written profile.

Your profile is average you getting average results that you getting.

id say theres something wrong with your text/message game if you are getting initial interest then losing them before they will even meet.

I've been using dating apps for years and my profile is pretty great. You are forgetting the part where I mentioned I have used OLD in the past with a lot of success. My issue isn't my photos or bio but my general text game. I am too impatient nowadays so I try to move fast, which incidentally helps filter out low-interest women. I usually try to close within a few msgs then once I text them I ask them to meet for drinks 2-3 days later.

I used to do a lot more witty banter and more thoughtful/catered responses, and it helped a ton, but now I don't bother with that anymore because it's such a waste of time and creative energy. Unless the girl seems super interested right off the bat, I'll just follow a my usual script and don't bother with the carefully curated text game.

No I disagree.

In my opinion most guys fail on OLD because they're not willing to work hard enough. They give up after a few no-responses or rejections.

Said guys are usually bitter to begin with, and after just a few rejections/flakings, they blame women, or COVID, or whatever, for their failures.

OLD is a simple numbers game. The more women you approach, the more likely you'll get "rejected", and the more likely you'll get dates. That's ALL it comes down to.

Over the past 10-15 years I've met hundreds of women via OLD and have bagged dozens. But that's only about a 1 in 10 success ratio (I have met 500, and fvucvked about 50 of them).

To get all those lays I've had to sift through a LOT of dirt.

How much time have you spent all these years with this ****? At the end of the day the amount of work necessary to succeed on OLD (text game especially) doesn't seem worth the effort, when compared to meeting women in traditional places.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Text game is a waste of time. If you have to convince her of anything.. you are already doing too much

 

[logicallefty]

I have friends who slay on OLD. They say these 3 things:

1. Top notch photos
2. An interesting profile
3. Solid text game

My friend who routinely slays on OLD checks his swipe apps several times a day, is a handsome, well dressed guy who is also witty and engaging. He strikes up conversations constantly (never with ‘Hi’ or ‘How are you’) with starters like “So how’s your Wednesday evening treating you? Up to anything scandalous?” and women gobble up his text game. He’s very chatty via text and writes long thoughtful responses. This hooks women emotionally such that they get curious enough to meet him out...or come straight to his. If a woman expects him to pedestalize her or gush about her he throws out an IDGAF compliance test...and the chicks almost always comply. It’s interesting to observe.

I don't generally suggest taking advice about chicks from chicks, but this is spot on from my experience too. Spot on.

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

Text game is a waste of time. If you have to convince her of anything.. you are already doing too much

Thats where you give her a chance to talk herself into sleeping with you on the first date. She doesnt feel like shes sleeping with a stranger as she knows some stuff about you and has glimpsed your personality albeit thru text or phone conversation.
Least thats how i approach it.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Thats where you give her a chance to talk herself into sleeping with you on the first date. She doesnt feel like shes sleeping with a stranger as she knows some stuff about you and has glimpsed your personality albeit thru text or phone conversation.
Least thats how i approach it.

She knows at first glance if she’s going to give you some ass or not. There is no need to talk your way out of it.

 

[YouSpitToMe]

Cankles and leftover carousel riders. Hardcore pass.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Try staying in contact with a text her and there between the time you set the date and the actual date. Almost all the flaking issues were solved by me doing that.

 

[BeExcellent]

Thats where you give her a chance to talk herself into sleeping with you on the first date. She doesnt feel like shes sleeping with a stranger as she knows some stuff about you and has glimpsed your personality albeit thru text or phone conversation.
Least thats how i approach it.

That’s what I watch my friend do. Currently he’s actively chatting with probably 10 different girls at various stages of interaction. Some are already multi year plates, some he’s recently bedded and they think they are going to rope him into an exclusive relationship (they are categorically wrong)...some he hasn’t yet met in person. I get amused because I have an unusual vantage point with him that he allows me. The women all think they are special, they all think sex is going to yoke him. They do not realize sex is a commodity he can get easily and anywhere.

Women want to feel special. The level of interaction and banter my friend creates in being conversational causes investment by these women (because engaging male conversationalists are unusual) and they do in fact talk themselves into having sex with him before they meet him.

That investment helps women feel comfortable enough to send him nudes or revealing pics etc., so before he meets them in many cases they are already comfortable with physical intimacy. I thought my ex BF was talented at this...but not even my ex had the skillset my friend has. It’s pretty dam impressive, lol.

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

@BeExcellent thank you, my point exactly. Texting is a valuable skill set.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Flexpert,
Don't lose heart,the light is in the upland soon the vaccine will bring some relief......On line Dating in terms of results is a depressing business,but consider,perhaps its real value is in helping your verbal skills and developing and refining techniques to play even manipulate a Woman....Some might call that Charm....understanding what your dating strengths are,is a wonderful attribute!

 

[Bigpapa]

I'm fairly good looking guy and have a nice apt in a popular part of the city. But I don't have much luck with OLD, they mostly ghost or flake on me before I can even meet them. Others won't even agree to meet because of the "pandemic".

Granted, I probably only spend an hour or two on it per week, but it's not nearly as efficient as it was even 2-3 years ago.

For reference I am using Hinge which I have used very successfully in the past.

I would like to meet women at places like sports clubs, improv, spin classes, any kind of groups like that, but pretty much everything in my city is closed down.

I'm getting a bit jaded from it all now. It's hard to have any sense of abundance when you literally cannot even get a girl to commit to showing up for a first date.

you should see old only as entertainment and have no expectation from it

the quality of girls there is way lower than what you can get in real life , so always have this in your mind

in terms of abundance , it is very unlikely to get that from old . Abundance comes from having a cool lifestyle , and people navigating unconscious towards you, because you are a cool person