Okay so my wife and i got in a pretty big fight last night

[Epimanes]

Another thing. The conversations might be harmless to YOU. But women generally have a #1 need of conversation. Meaning she could part with all other needs and that one makes HER fall in love the most.

She is likely only talking to you because her LTR guy treats her like you treat your wife and she feels ignored. So she is slowly falling in love with you through your conversations as they slowly escelate into HER feelings while she seeks validations from you cuz her LTR does not.

Dude. I been married 20 years to my highschool sweetheart. She's been mine sincer she was 15 and I was 16. I have witnessed this type of mess unfold. I have been in your shoes. My wife has also. We both slid down that slide just as you are now and it almost cost me my family.

Epi.

Edit: eventually one or both of you will say this line "I love you but I'm not IN love with you" and at that point the contrast effect will be in full swing and one of you or both of you will be leading secret second lives and likely have an affair or divorce.

I feel bad for your son.

 

[backbreaker]

you know what.. i'm not going to let you win. i'm not taking the bait. i'm not doing it. i'm better than that. Talking about my son was an extremely low blow some **** you wouldn't dare say to my face in real life. But that's cool... I'm going to channel my inner solomon lol and leave this alone. That's my queue to bow out

 

[Epimanes]

Cuz you know WE are right. No problem man... Enjoy your slippery slope. Which works both ways btw. Your wife is no saint either and will likely follow your lead in this as she begins to justify having "guy friends" you don't approve of in the future.

My wife and I almost destroyed our marriage because of this very reason. It began pretty much the same way. We are all wired to have affairs under certain circumstances which is why you must take extraordinay precautions to protect your marriage from any slippery slope. This is all in the affair textbook man and how 90% of affairs begin.

Don't believe me? Read any thread in this infidelity section of this marriage forum. Most of them start out with "innocent" conversation and think it can never happen to them. I have read hundreds of threads where the story starts just like this.

Epi

Infidelity forum ---> http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=35&page=1

 

[Epimanes]

Nope I have not rejected the teachings here. There is plenty of good stuff and plenty that married guys should not do.

I take what works for me and apply it to my marriage. The best advice is to master amused mastery. Couple that with respect for my spouses feelings and being the best partner my wife needs me to be reaps the rewards man.

Plenty on this site is good. just not all of it. Especially for married guys. I can't just go spin plates cuz the wife and I are not getting along. Have to find viable solutions and think how my actions may effect my spouse and kids at all times. Being married life is no longer just about me.. Its about the entire family and what's best in the long term.

Epi

Edit to add: it is statisitcaly proven that the biggest reason, hands down, women leave men is neglect.

 

[Epimanes]

Here. Read these... It makes a ton of logical sense.

Why women leave men
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_leave.html

Are opposite sex friendships a threat to your marriage?
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8122_OSFriend.html

 

[Married Buried]

If my wife found out I was talking to other women even as "friends" she would flip. I wouldn't even try it, would cause too many problems.

The problem here is that she might start doing the same thing to piss off you backbreaker as revenge. Women love to do that. Who knows where that could lead. She might start flirting with some guy to get back at you.

Like I said not worth the trouble.

 

[LiveFreeX]

Epi: I think your stuff is awesome, keep it coming.

 

[foreverAFC]

lol the OP obviously wants this other chick

 

[JoeMarron]

you know what.. i'm not going to let you win. i'm not taking the bait. i'm not doing it. i'm better than that. Talking about my son was an extremely low blow some **** you wouldn't dare say to my face in real life. But that's cool... I'm going to channel my inner solomon lol and leave this alone. That's my queue to bow out

Low blow or not the fact is you're flirting with the breakup of your family. You have multiple vets here telling you how slippery this slope is and you aren't listening. Clearly you need to at least take their words into consideration.

It seems like you have completely rejected all the teachings here. I simply don't believe that women cheat because they "feel ignored" lol. That is classic woman backwards rationalization, is that what you believe causes all the wh0ring we see today outside of marriage(but within LTRS)? I don't believe all the rules invert themselves once you enter marriage. Even if this women wants to cheat with BB it is because she is attracted to him in some way, not because her Alpha husband ignores her lol. Keep in mind she is the one fishing here. That shows low quality and no excuses about being "ignored" are credible in the year 2014.

It's completely possible to alpha yourself out of a relationship. 100% alpha is more suited to spinning plates than marriage. Epimanes has been married for 20 years and is still happy and getting laid. If he doesn't know what he's talking about concerning marriage then no one here does.

 

[jafyk]

There is nothing worse than someone who is in the wrong, trying hard to justify it. Dude, you are disrespecting your wife AND taunting her. I'm not coming to your wife's side at all, I think she was an idiot for marrying you.

The way I see it, if my wife were to hang out with a guy, get pissed at me when I called her out about it and then brought him over to hang out with me (which I obviously don't want), my wife would be getting a black eye for insulting me, he'd be getting his head smashed through a brick wall and I would throw all her sh1t on the street, drain every bank account and be gone the next morning.

Your wife sounds like a BETA and eventually when she discovers her 'game' which will come in the form of feminism/divorce court, she's going to kick your disrespectful ass to the curb, and financially rape you. And the funny thing is, no one here will feel bad about that happening because you are egging her on and being a **** about the whole thing...

She is your FAMILY, when you marry, you are family. You are disrespecting your family, what is your son learning from all this?
She has to come home to your ignorant ass every night, for better or worse and put up with that?!? Sorry man, you disgust me on so many levels, the only back you are breaking is your own.



I thought you said that you owned the business? So its not a chick, its a client and now you are mixing biz with pleasure. So which is it biz or pleasure?





Sounds like there is something wrong with YOU. I have ONLY guy friends and I have ALOT of them, I don't see the point in hanging around with a woman unless I intend to fvck her, nothing good can come of it. You don't sound like the kind of person a guy would want to have around as a friend. If you treat your own family with disrespect, I bet you don't fair very well around friends either.

Whoa! Could you be any more judgmental? Who says your idea of a relationship is the only one that there is? I am not American but have lived here for 13 yrs. Where I come from there are men who have two wives and the both wives live and get along. Now back to your American society there are couples who are swingers and have open relationships. Wait you even have polygamists. As much as I'm not for these kinds of arrangements. It is working out for the people in the examples I have given. So, there are couples who can have a relationship where they have friends of the opposite sex and they make it work fine.

From what Backbreaker wrote it sounds to me that his wife's love language is predominantly quality time. So, if he was spending more quality time (not to be confused with JUST being home together 24 hrs a day).In other words doing the everyday things/special occasion things TOGETHER and talking about the mundane things-I doubt she'd really care about his talking to the other girl.

You sir (whom I'm responding to) sound like the archetype of the violent control freak we would hear about on TV who commits murder-suicide.

To Backbreaker, I will suggest you look up the 5 love language and find out which one your wife is. If you cater strictly to that language. She will feel loved. Although you have to cater to the other things as well; because if her love language is quality time and you get her the best gifts in the world she still won't feel loved. It seems you and your wife are doing fine but you both need to maintain a healthy balance.

 

[jafyk]

Here. Read these... It makes a ton of logical sense.

Why women leave men
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_leave.html

Are opposite sex friendships a threat to your marriage?
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8122_OSFriend.html

Isn't it crazy how women tend to lose their sense of self when they get married? I mean on rare occasion the exciting single woman who has a social life and takes care of stuff. Yet once she gets married she becomes boring and can't make any decisions unless and has to look at a man to make almost every decision. I'm starting to find that it's like women marry men so that men can meet their needs and rarely the other way round. For example a woman who is single and living in an apartment might think, "I want my apartment to be teal" She goes ahead buys the paint and paints it teal. What does a woman in a marriage do? She tells her husband "Oh, I would like for our house to be teal" The man supports her idea. Then it becomes "When are you going to paint the house teal". Yet the man may not even like teal. Now he has to paint it teal to make her happy. Another example is a single woman who will take out her garbage with no problem. Once she gets married it becomes the man's job along with all the other unpleasant work. Yet when it's something pleasurable it becomes "ladies first"

If a woman's reason for leaving is neglect how come when a man is wife centered she loses attraction for him and complains yet again about how she feels crowded and how he's needy. It takes a lot for men to be in a relationship because men weren't made for this strict exclusive relationship which is why most men are more successful in their jobs than their relationships because the requirements for both are conflicting. Today's women are spoiled and take no responsibility for their action or lack of it. Even the relationship they crazily seek once achieved is left for a man to make it work. They claim to be expert in relationship but aren't. Why would you communicate in hints if you want to be clearly understood? Yet when the man doesn't get it. They use it as an excuse to cheat then blame the man. Mean while the man may have been slaving away to meet their needs. Ugh!

 

[zekko]

I would wager this is the "stated" reason. When a man is not alpha enough for a woman in a relationship, most women can't articulate what they are missing or want from that man.

She can't really say "I left him because he did not dominate me", or "I left him because I want him to take charge" or whatever....

Instead, she feels empty because he is not leading. She can only articulate that emptiness as neglect.

You have a valid point. But something I've been noticing lately about this forum is that guys here seem to think that there is no way to be too inattentive to a girl, or ignore her too much. The message here seems to be that the less you interact with her, the more the attraction. Don't text her, don't talk to her between dates, give her the gift of missing you, etc, etc.

I sometimes wonder if guys here actually even want to be with a girl, since they seem to be against spending any time with them, outside of the bedroom. Point is, there is a point where all these "bad boy disconnects" reach a critical point where they are no longer effective and actually become counterproductive.

I also firmly believe that women can become tired of any guy's sh!t once the hormones fall off, whether that guy be "alpha" or not.

 

[backbreaker]

Zekko,


Your're just making stuff up now dude.

I've been noticing lately about this forum is that guys here seem to think that there is no way to be too inattentive to a girl, or ignore her too much

SHE DOESN'T WORK AND I WORK FROM HOME. I probably see my wife more than any married person on this forum. she's sitting next to me right now. \


that, is actually EXACTLY what my problem is. ****, I want to see someone other than my wife every once in a while. I want to talk to someone that's not my wife every once in a while. Not that I don't love my wife, **** I just want normal human interaction with other people.


The disconnect between her is that she doesn't comprehend that she gets to go out everyday and go to see her friends for lunch, she gets to go to yoga class and have her friends there, she has this big network of friends that she gets to see and all I get to see on a daily basis is her. Not that I don't like seeing her. But that's not ****ing fair to me.


It's not that she's mad that I don't spend enough time with her. If you go back to the 2nd page her issues were specifically that I don't DO THINGS with her. and that i'm "doing things" with this other girl, even though I'm not initiating those things. That I will agree with, but it's not because I don't want to do things it's because i'm working.

I don't mind talking to my wife, she's my best friend. I don't mind spending time with my wife, I would not have married her if i did not lke her personality. I just want to be able to talk to other people as well like normal people.

I also firmly believe that women can become tired of any guy's sh!t once the hormones fall off, whether that guy be "alpha" or not.

my wife is handling the situation better than anyone on this forum is. It's not even an issue anymore. We have fights. We make up. She is smart enough to understand that I have a uniquie job and this is not an everyday situtation and she will let me have my friend as long as she still comes first. She doesn't want the friend to get to do all the fund stuff with me when she gets stuck running errands and cooking dinner everyday while I'm out at starbucks with the girl and shopping. that's her only concern. No one ever said anything about me not being open. No one said anything about trust. never once did she or i say that she doesn't trust me. she even told me she knows i'm not cheating on her. twice.

my point being, if you want to say backbreaker you're a freaking jerk and an ******* for having a female friend, then by all means go ahead and say that.

but you won't sit here and call me a "bad boy" and say I don't communicate eiwth my wife and i don't give her ANY attention. because none of those are true and you're pulling that out of your ass



Do I think she's cute? yes she's cute. But she's not my type.. I like petite leggy women, my wife knows that. this girl is not really petite.. she's very athletic and cut up but she's not petite.. about 5'6 145 pounds.. it's all muscle there is not an ounce of fat on her, but I like petite women like my wife who i 5'11 135. she's not even the type of woman I'd cheat on my wife with if I were to cheat.

On top of that.. I am pretty confident in the fact that even if she were my type, I'm not her type lol. I don't think she's really attracted to black guys. She like Jersey Shore type dudes. Her boyfriend looks fresh off the set of Jersey shore .


We're just really good friends.

 

[zekko]

Backbreaker, none of what I said in that last post had anything to do with your case. Danger said something that triiggered something else I have been thinking about lately. I was just going off on a tangent. Maybe this was the wrong thread to do it in.

 

[LiveFreeX]

You sir (whom I'm responding to) sound like the archetype of the violent control freak we would hear about on TV who commits murder-suicide.

Suicide is for the weak.

We're just really good friends.

I don't think you are a jerk at all BB, I think you are just really really irresponsible or incredibly stupid. I can't figure out which one but from the last post, I'm betting its the latter, you are one of those guys that never learns from his mistakes and goes on justifying his bvllsh1t. Are you sure you weren't bitten by a Lindy West's hamster recently? You are willing to jepordize your family so you can 'hang' out with a woman who is not your wife because you don't have any male friends, smart move guy. Stop making excuses and go out and make some new GUY friends. My wife also agrees, you are a retard and shortly we'll probably see, you, your wife, your 'friend' and her BF on an episode of Jerry Springer.

but you won't sit here and call me a "bad boy"

You aren't, you are just a poor excuse for a husband. Why not spend that extra time with your new HO, with your kid instead?

I don't mind talking to my wife, she's my best friend. I don't mind spending time with my wife, I would not have married her if i did not lke her personality. I just want to be able to talk to other people as well like normal people.

Some best friend you are.

 

[Colossus]

Wow this thread has gotten pretty heated.

You know BB, I'm not here to judge you or tell you how to run your marriage. This may blow over and you'll be no worse for wear.

However, I DO think that opposite sex friends in a marriage need to be treated very judiciously. And I'm not even married, so you can take that for what it's worth, I'm just thinking critically about it. Epimanes may come off as preachy but all his points are pretty salient in my opinion. "Innocent" friendships are the tinder with which affairs are started. It's not like you are going to go out and lay wood to this client, it's more the precedent it is setting.

All I know is if I were married, I would NOT be ok with my wife hanging out solo with another man, unless he was family obviously, or he was quite elderly and out of the realm of danger. And that's not because I think some guy is going to pork her after spending a few hours with her, it's because it is disrespectful to me and that cannot be tolerated if the marriage or any relationship for that matter is going to last and stay healthy.

So on that note, I would need to keep my side of the street clean too out of honor and fairness. Yes there are some GOOD and acceptable double standards in a male-led marriage, but this is not one of them. So I would not spend solo recreational time with another woman of mating age unless there were some necessary circumstances, and even then I would need to be cautious.

I get where you are coming from; you don't socialize much because you work from home and dammit, it is your right to have friends too. But once you start spending more time with another woman than your wife, man I think you are planting seeds you do not want to harvest. It may not happen tomorrow, or even a year from now, but women don't forget this sh!t and it could easily be used to justify a few innocent "outings" with a male "friend" in the future. Just my .02.

 

[backbreaker]

I get where you are coming from and I respect you as a poster. I do want to say 2 things in my defense however


1. it's not the same because my wife has a pretty big network of friends. We are doing NYE at our house and there will be every bit of 50-60 people here all of them her friends. It's easy to go out and meet friends when you dont' work lol.

2. The girl and I aren't having "outings". 2 times I"ve been working and she's stop by starbucks to say hi and we went christmas shopping for my wife's presents. It's not like we are are planning on going out for drinks. I'm not that damn stupid lol. I'd shut that down. Just like my wife is going home to take our son to see his grandparents after NY's I'm not going to be around the girl in that time becuase it's not right. But to say I just, can't assoicate with her beucase i'm married, that's not fair to me I don't see


not changing my mind on this issue. you guys can post all the marriage builder links, shame me to hell I'm steadfast about this. I need friends. I've given up too much of my **** when I got married, i gave up going to the jazz bars every night, I gave up going to the track everyday. I lost just about all the people I hang out with and she lost nothing.



If I sit back and think about it, the real problem is i need to go t the horse track. I'v ehad to give my business a lot more attention than I wanted to tihs past year. I like to be done with work by noon-1 pm and then go to the track. That's my life.

 

[backbreaker]

So again I ask, what prevents you from going out and getting guy friends?

When you run a business that makes over 100k a month in revenue it tends to take up alot of your time. I don't have a 9 to 5 job that i get paid every 2 weeks with sick pay and paid leave.

On top of that, I have a son. On top of that I'm hell bent on staying in shape. On top of THAT I'm in 2-3 NA meetings a week. On top of that I like to see my wife every once in a while lol.


I don't have the time that alot of you guys here seem to have.\

Hell Cordon lives right around the corner

I like my anonymity. My RL friends are my RL friends, the internet is the internet.

but you only make an effort

I never implied that an effort was made. You know how many women clients i Have? I have porn star clients. I have other attractive clients. I have clients more attractive than this chick. We just clicked. It just happened. It's not like I'm combing through clients looking to bone my female clients lol.


Anyway it is what it is. if you want to say I have a problem than I have a problem I don't give a damn at this point lol. I don't live for the forums approval in all my endeavors. I was venting, we've dealt with it, we've moved on.

IF the day comes my wife doesn't like the way I life **** it i will deal with it that day. I'm done arguing about this

 

[backbreaker]

you don't understand danger I'm not solomon, i'm not mr tits, I'm not jaylan.. when I shut down I shut down lol. and I'm shut down. I Don't have to win an internet arguement. you call bull**** all day long IDGAF lol. I'm about to get dressed and go to the track


lololol, the irony of it all is if if I had listened to this forum about my wife in the first place, I would have dumped her when we first started dating lol

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=128693


now the same people are taking up for her and telling me I am a horrible husband because I have a woman that I talk about going to the gym and healthy foods with lol. Yeah buddy I got this.

 

[Epimanes]

If your wife has any guy friends that bother you this all applies to her also. Its a double edged sword. In essence you are experiencing what a stay at home mom does and how they feel without interactions with adults all day while the husband goes to work. So they seek their attention from facebook or chats etc and end up falling in love over time to other people because the man is too tired after work to spend time with is wife after cleaning, taking care of kids. Etc. Like I said its textbook. I'm sorry if my opinion feels preachy, that is not my intent. I'm trying to save you some future hastle and heartache. You can do as you please man.. No sweat of my back. Nothing saying you can't have friends man... But if your wife is your best friend then her opinon towards you and yours towards her are the most important and should be considered at all times otherwise you gain resentment towards eachother and your marriage dies a death of 1000 cuts.

Just something to consider man.. Again this applies to her also and if your stay at home job is making you miserable then why not change it? Or your wife go to work while you work from home and be a stay at home dad at the same time. Might take pressure off you and free up your time to spend more time together.

Anyhow. You will do what your going to do. I understand that. We are just interent nobodys anyhow.

I will chime out of this one now.

Good luck.


Epi