Occupying Wall Street?

[Deadly_Ripped]

Everyone has more than enough opportunities to succeed in life.

On a second note, you seem to be very anti-corporate. What is your solution to this problem of Corporations purchasing .gov favors?

1) Stop recognizing corporations as people, which will restrict their "right" to free speech. This will prevent them from being able to buy campaigns by "independently" advertising for a candidate.

2) Set up public financing for all campaigns, and DO NOT allow any donations.

3) Eliminate all non-office professional interactions between lobbyists and politicians.

4) Eliminate the revolving door between the lobby and political offices, by imposing timeframe restrictions in employement in the respective occupations.

I am not anti-corporate. I am anti-disproportionate corporate influence in the political process.

 

[Bible_Belt]

If we want fairness in the tax code, what about the 46% of US households that pay no taxes? They can vote in leaders to steal their neighbors hard-earned wealth and yet, they have no skin in the game.

How is that fair?

You mean they pay no Federal Income taxes, which is a far cry from paying no taxes. Everyone pays plenty of taxes, such as state and local income tax and Federal excise taxes on items like gas, alcohol, cigarettes, and cell phone usage. There's also everything that requires a licensing fee or permit.

I would also include fines and tickets as taxes. There are more people in this country have gotten a dui than there are people who have not. That's because it's big money.

Non-violent drug crimes are another excellent way to tax poor people. If they can't pay a big fine, they get locked up and sold off as slave laborers. The DEA takes in more money from asset forfeiture than they spend on drug enforcement, making them quite profitable as a business. Local agencies are catching on. In Tampa, as one example, the police are very happy to seize your car for the crime of buying a $10 bag of weed. The police chief and detectives drive their pick of the vehicles back and forth to work.

Everyone pays plenty of taxes. There is no free ride.

 

[Deadly_Ripped]

Danger, I'm glad you agree with those points. In fact, if you combine those four points into three slightly broader statements, then you would be looking at the grievances passed by Occupy Chicago two nights ago.

In order to get a resolution passed, it requires 90% of those attending the general assembly. Last night there were approximately 200 people in attendance. I'm not sure how many people were there the night before, when the resolutions were passes, but it probably wasn't a very different number.

I'm glad that you support the ideals of the movement, even if you judge its face.

 

[sstype]

For every action there is an equal and opposing reaction. What we are seeing is a backlash against growing corporate and Wall St. influence on our government and Main Street.

I do not oppose free-markets, I oppose those who bastardize free markets to gain power and control over others through influence peddling, special tax breaks and subsidies, regulatory capture, forming cartels and undisputed monopolies, and trillion dollar bailouts/backstops/guarantees.

Going after the unemployed and poor is ridiculous and quite frankly, small potatoes, considering the massive fraud, corruption and theft occurring at the top. I may not agree 100% with Ron Paul and the Tea Party but at least they are highlighting legitimately wasteful government spending even if they tend to overshoot (IMO) and push for cuts in programs I believe we should preserve. But hey, give them credit for FINALLY forcing the Republicans to put out-of-control defense spending on the table for cuts.

Likewise we should be glad that OWS is bringing their legitimate grievances to our attention, even if they do not exactly side with our political leanings.

 

[5string]

I agree with everything you say above.

However the phrasing you use below is very important, as it tends to "blame Wall Street and Corporations".

And indeed, that is what is going on, and exactly why they are....well.....occupying wall street.



There is a very important thing to note here. Wall Street and Corporate interests are basically purchasing .gov favors.

What happens when we assault the buyers?

Are the sellers of .gov favors still going to sell their favors? Almost certainly.

Where is the sense in that? Should we not be destroying the ability to sell these favors to begin with? Would not that require a different sort of movement on Washington?

These are the issues that need to be considered before people just go and blame the "rich".

Of course, even if the problem of purchasable .gov favors goes away.....it will not end the Business Cycle, which is the cause of job losses in recessions.

Nor will it end the Fiat monetary system, which is responsible for the extreme swings in the Business Cycle, as well as the National Debt.

Bottom Line, I agree with the overall concept that there are problems, I seriously disagree with who these people have chosen to blame.

Winner!

 

[Leporello]

Wall Street took 1.5 TRILLION dollars from the government and has yet to pay it back. Where did the money go? They're keeping it for themselves, rather than investing in the country, creating jobs, and repairing our decaying infrastructure.

Capitalism is dead in the United States. All's that's left is cronyism.

And we're hearing a lot of nonsense about how American workers are 'spoiled' and demand too much. Garbage. It is not unreasonable to ask for a share in the profit you helped to create. It's simply that upper executives want to grab as much money as possible and everyone else can go to hell. Example: last year Sotheby's (the auction house) made $680 million in profits. Then, they asked the guys who actually carry the art and furniture around to take a pay cut. Why? because they can.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Example: last year Sotheby's (the auction house) made $680 million in profits. Then, they asked the guys who actually carry the art and furniture around to take a pay cut. Why? because they can.

But clearly they deserve that money, why they worked hard and made smart decisions. Just look at their fancy titles, Director of Directorial Services. What does he do? Who the hell knows? But he deserves that big bonus.

 

[Alle_Gory]

How would you know if they deserve it or not?

Performance. Upper management is in charge of company operations and decisions. **** decisions that lose the company money would never be tolerated if it was private and in the hands of a few.

But of course with many of these publicly traded companies, the cronies at the top give each other bonuses and fat contracts. The shareholders are too numerous and scattered in order to act as one and remove these parasites.

If you want to see an example of what used to be a great company infected by parasites look at the current state of HP.

 

[Alle_Gory]

It may be that this person really should have made more than that based on what they brought to the Company.

Dude, people who contribute the most are usually (but not always) paid the least. It's the figureheads who make the money and they are useless in the grand scheme of things.

 

[omkara]

Occupy Wall Street’s General Assembly operates under a revolutionary “progressive stack.” A normal “stack” means those who wish to speak get in line. A progressive stack encourages women and traditionally marginalized groups speak before men, especially white men. This is something that has been in place since the beginning, it is necessary, and it is important.

“Step up, step back” was a common phrase of the first week, encouraging white men to acknowledge the privilege they have lived in their entire lives and to step back from continually speaking.

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/10/11/occupy-wall-street-is-just-another-vehicle-for-misandry/

They may have some good points, but I have a hard time seeing how any male would be willing to see tolerate this type of bigotry enough to participate. Whatever happened to just plain old equality? For these cats, it is back to the same old Orwellian "some are more equal than others."

 

[Alle_Gory]

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/10/11/occupy-wall-street-is-just-another-vehicle-for-misandry/

Opportunistic b*tches gonna be opportunistic b*tches, really surprised.

 

[DanelMadr]

FIAT money and Fractional Reserve Banking have one major advantage.....Government can more easily blunt the spikes on graphs.
Unfortunately misuse is quite common and instead of blunting they try to fight reality.

Sad thing is, that Economy is about expectations. When you think it will go bad...it will.

We do need separation of state and business as we needed separation of state and church. State should concentrate on checking the business, that it does not take advantage of monopoly, does not f@ck up environment etc..

I'm not sure that abandoning FIAT and FRB will make things better. Certainly we do need more responsible fiscal policy e.g. not wasting/printing money to redistribute wealth. Which those protesters on the street want. I think they won't be happy until western society turns to dust.

I'm guessing most of them are fans of ZeitGeist movies aka Communism 2.0 or Fascism 1.5. Their ideas are very silly at least and very dangerous.
Mainly because they are suicidal....bottom line is, in order to live in their paradise most of the planet population has to disappear.

These people do have vote in elections and that is why you have State bending free market to it's will....to redistribute wealth.

We won't have Milton Friedman's Free market and society, because we have to make compromises, giving bribes to people who don't do very well in the game. And right now they are demanding more, threatening they want to change the rules, crying that the game is rigged and they don't want to play....arrogantly stating that they represent 99%.

Yes it is about character. When you can't keep up with other runners or you don't like running at all, you don't run. Sane person wouldn't demand that all start to walk or crawl, so the cripples don't feel bad.

I personally don't like consumerism. I can't understand how can someone devote his all energy to collecting wealth. But I am not arrogant enough to force my views on them. And why would I...it would be contra productive anyway. Idea of social Equality is a scam of the century.

 

[DanelMadr]

Dude, people who contribute the most are usually (but not always) paid the least. It's the figureheads who make the money and they are useless in the grand scheme of things.

In that case the company goes down. Yes it is a problem when the company does not go down, bc it gets bail out. And yes it is sad that the employees become unemployed but they made the mistake to work for a bad company.

In case of corporations, I believe the process is called over-bastarding. Bastards tend to support each, so they grow in numbers. They just pretend, they enjoy the benefits, giving nothing back, backstabbing the non-bastards (who don't have time or brain for office politics). They fake the success. Good people are demotivated and leave, bc they see it goes bottom up. And eventually the company goes bottom up or it doesn't because in case of corporations, there can be some parts which are compensating.

It is in every company to some extent. 1 motivated guy, who is doing his best out of principle and 10 colleagues is just supporting him at best. It has to be ten because they do the necessary minimum.

I'd like to think I am that 1 guy. I worked under bastards/idiots. I saw the bastardization of a company. I pulled several knifes out of my back. Eventually I was rewarded with salary quite big....I still have to actually work with measurable output and great responsibility, meanwhile bosses avoided responsibility (they are paid for) and others do f@ck all with immeasurable outcome for better salary then mine.

At least I don't live in fear, like the bastards do.

The bastards do fear me and therefore hate me. Ouch...another knife.....

Life is unjust. Get over it, people.

 

[Bible_Belt]

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10#

the US now ranks 93rd in the world in "income equality." China's ahead of us. So is India. So is Iran.

Corporate profits just hit another all-time high.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Now this is a huge allegation.

Where do you get this from? Define "contribute".

It's not a huge allegation if you had any idea how jobs work. You get paid based on how in demand your presence is, not how much work you do.

If your job is low skilled and you can be replaced easily, you get paid **** no matter how much you contribute and how much responsibility you take on. Also, if you take on too much responsibility in some cases you will probably be kept in your present position instead of promoted because you're more valuable there.

I don't have to cite any sources, this is basic information.

 

[Burroughs]

If anything I think the poor should be angrier.

I use myself as an example. I am 25 years old and am a VP at a major pharma...why? Do I work hard yes. Am I qualified yes...but mostly its because my grandfather started the company. So I had an inside track.

Most people who are wealthy make it from the inside. (see chris rock's rich vs wealthy skit). I have friends who were major coke heads in high school and college...if I told you who they were now, the companies they run you would throw up over yourself. They got to where they were through connections not merit. One kid got 20mil in VC funding..blew a mil point five on a bugatti overnight...VCs looked the other way why? his dad is on the board of the VC firm...they had to fire needed programmers because the boss blew money from the development fund. Cool kid though totally inept.

That's how the world works.

So really anyone on the outside should be pissed. And by all means work hard...but realize if you don't have a leg up on the inside you may end up standing out in the cold anyways.

 

[BlackwaterPark]

History has proven that when the gap between the rich and the poor becomes large enough, eventually there will be revolution. Right now in the US, we have the largest rich-to-poor gap since the late 1920's. Something has to give.

Agreed. Though i'm surprised it's actually happening. Americans Ive met seem think of capitalism as some kind of holy grail and any kind of socialism as the devil. Is it because of the education system?

 

[Quiksilver]

If anything I think the poor should be angrier.

I use myself as an example. I am 25 years old and am a VP at a major pharma...why? Do I work hard yes. Am I qualified yes...but mostly its because my grandfather started the company. So I had an inside track.

Most people who are wealthy make it from the inside. (see chris rock's rich vs wealthy skit). I have friends who were major coke heads in high school and college...if I told you who they were now, the companies they run you would throw up over yourself. They got to where they were through connections not merit. One kid got 20mil in VC funding..blew a mil point five on a bugatti overnight...VCs looked the other way why? his dad is on the board of the VC firm...they had to fire needed programmers because the boss blew money from the development fund. Cool kid though totally inept.

That's how the world works.

So really anyone on the outside should be pissed. And by all means work hard...but realize if you don't have a leg up on the inside you may end up standing out in the cold anyways.

Sounds like economics 101.

Firms lobby government for regulations that make market entry more difficult. Firms give themselves oligopoly/monopoly power through regulatory hurdles. Firms then don't have to compete, and can waste money. Price goes up, output and quality goes down.

In a competitive market, the mid-size firm that blows $20 million loses market share and likely out of business.

--

What do you do on a day to day basis as a VP?

 

[Burroughs]

What do you do on a day to day basis as a VP?

R & D primarily. I am responsible for the output of nearly 50 scientists. It can get very rigorous at times. At the same time its like the United Nations. I get to meet so many people from diverse backgrounds.

 

[Vice]

Man. This whole topic is over my head. Mostly because I haven't been paying too much attention to the whole thing. Here's why:

I'm working for my degree, with the full understanding that it's more than likely not going to land me a job. I don't care.

I've started my own business. I haven't made much money, but I'm learning quite alot about dealing with people, negotiating, psychology, and the business (real estate) in general just by going out there in the field. The only "classroom" aspect is the programs that I listen to in my own free time. I understand that success does not come easily.

The classes I'm taking at college are useful to me since I'm getting a degree in business. The difference between me and the next student is that I can go out and implement what I learn immediately, possibly even while I'm still in class (thanks to the iPhone I'm getting soon). Eben Pagan says in Get Altitude that the most successful people out there have a high speed of implementation, and had a contest to see who could make the most money before the program ended. People who ran for the contest made between $5,000-$40,000 before the end of the program, which they paid $10,000 to go to.

I don't have a smartphone- yet. I don't fall into the trap of keeping up with the latest technology; I don't know what the difference is between 3G and 4G. The only reason I'm getting an iPhone is because I can use it as leverage for my business; I'll know when a lead calls in, and I'll be ready to call them right away, instead of waiting until I get to a computer.

I wrote an eBook on helping guys to get rid of porn addiction. I sell it for about $20. The goal here is not to make money, but to help myself apply what I'm learning from Eben Pagan and Frank Kern's programs, at the cost of the monthly fees required to maintain a website. So after working my (sometimes more than) eight hour shift I will come home at midnight to learn website programming, put out bandit signs for my business, or go out to sharpen my social skills.

I drive an econobox. Not the manliest car, but it's great on gas, and almost paid off, since I bought it from an insurance auction, slightly damaged, for a third of the retail value.

So tell me, are these people that are protesting protesting because they made poor choices in life, and didn't get what they expected? Because I think it's all mindset. When they say "we are the 99%", I think, "We are the ones who feel entitled".

F*ck. What's stopping someone from hustling? You know, selling water bottles at the beach for a buck a pop, mowing lawns, painting, delivering flowers? You know, adding value to society instead of leeching from it? It's like pickup: if you don't offer value to a girl and just try to take hers, you'll end up frustrated.