Objective: SoSuave Pentagon Hearing: Dealing with ALTERNATIVE VIEWPOINTS!

[dannyegg4575]

You're right again Inceptor, you don't have to follow in blind faith anything anyone say. But you can listen to what they have to say, offering your own opinions to what is said.

Right or wrong refers to opinions. And you're right Inceptor, we do need morals and standards. We do need guidance. Except, we don't have one. We're left on this lonely planet without a rulebook. All we have are experiences with what works and what doesn't work. And then we have the Bible that tells you what you should and shouldn't do. That's all.

There are always both sides to any coin in everything. However, all I'm asking is what is right and what is wrong? Nobody can tell us that. For all we know, we should be killing each other. Is that right or wrong? It's only wrong because we knowing to doesn't work. Killing is bad. but what if you're killing a psychotic killer? What if that psychotic killer is your own child? Would you turn him in? Will killing the killer be right or wrong? Is vengeance the answer? how would killing someone bring back a loved one? Vengeance doesn't do anything. Say you do get your revenge, your heart might feel calm for a little while, you might feel justified but they you'll feel like sh>t all over again. How about the love ones of the killer you just killed? how are they going to feel?

If you have a dying child suffering in his death bed, would you pull the cord? Or would you rather he suffer? Lets go a little further, it might be easy to answer if it's not your child but what if it was your very own child?

You ask, lying, cheating, steal etc... is that wrong? of course its wrong. but we only don't do it because we know it doesn't work in a bigger context. Who here have never lied? who among us have never in God's term, "sin"? Come on. Be honest. Everybody's done it. If you're starving and on the street, with no "hope" and your children need to be fed, you're pushed to the edge... would you hold on to morals to stay alive?

So does that make you a bad person?

It's up to you if you want to believe what's being said is true or not. Life is about experiences and experiments. Try it out, use your own judgement, and implement if you deem them right. If you fail, so what? try something else.

There is no real answer. If you placed too much emphasis on right and wrong instead of what works and what doesn't work, you'll always be from the inside looking out instead of being outside looking in.

It's following in blind faith. Like some of the religious followers I know. These followers follow the Bible is equivalent to a child being told by his parents that Santa Claus exists. They never questioned the story. God who created men or men who created God?

You can't close your minds to new ideas, new concepts, new things. You have to see things from every angle objectively. Heck, you don't even have to believe a thing I'm saying. All that is written is for your own analysis. This is what Dr. Paul mentioned about boundaries. This is awareness.

 

[Interceptor]

Danny, IMO I think it's more important to look at what's RIGHT, and GOOD, rather than just what'works'.

I may need money.

What is Good, and RIGHT in this instance?


To be responsible, and find way of earning money, perhaps get a job, or sell a possesion. Will that work? Sure. Jobs are supposed to PAY You MONEY.
Sell a possession? Sure. People will pay you MONEY to BUY something from you.

Is it a guarantee?


NO.



Well, OK...say, I still need money.

But fvck working.

Fvck selling something.


Im going to rob somebody.
I'll just TAKE it.


Is this RIGHT?

most people would say, HELL NO.

Is it wrong?

Of course it is. Who are we fooling?


Will it WORK?


Maybe.

What if your victim has a weapon? And he pulls it out and shoots you in your face?

So , now you did something wrong anyway, and you're about to die for it.
1) Right? 2) Wrong? 3 ) Didnt get results, but try again??


Ok, but it's still an OPTION.

Well, yes . for people who dont want to do the RIGHT thing.

Do you respect and honor humanity?


If so, you will do the RIGHT thing.

Do you NOT respect and honor humanity?

If not, you will end up dead, and/or hated, and/or in prison EVENTUALLY.


IS that a a Guaranteed future?

Well, thats why we have criminal justice systems.
Eventually, as long as there ARE good, caring people, whom we can trust, and honor and respect Humanity, they will continue to STOP people from doing these things.

(if one was a known criminal, and one was being attacked by someone with a knife in one's own home....who you gonna call for help?? Who can YOU trust??? Hmmm? Do Burglars call the cops when they're the victims of a Home Invasion?)



Will doing the RIGHT thing give me results?

In the long term , YES. Always.

In the short term, sometimes.

Will doing the RIGHT thing be the BEST thing?

Yes. Always.


If you realize that doing the WRONG thing STILL has NO GUARANTEES for success, and results, why DO the WRONG thing???


WHAT is the REASONING?


Doing the RIGHT thing is about maintaining integrity of one's Values for oneself and Humanity.
It may not work out, because you can go out looking for a job, for instance, and NOT get hired.


But you still have respect, compassion, and honor yourself,and humanity.
If that is Value enough, then the question is answered. If not, then you may be severely disconnected from your Humanity. And thats never a good thing.


Is it rewarding?
It can be, for those with high character.

What if I pretend to do the RIGHT thing, so that people will think Im a Good Person?
Then you are a BAD person who wants to fool others in order to get something. You are not earning it. You are trying to covertly TAKE things from people.
This is Bad.

But will it get me results?
Sometimes yes, sometimes NO.

Why do something that only has a 50/50 chance of getting you results at the best, and will not serve you in the long run???



Danny, you have a job dont you?
You have a home. A car.
Nice things in your apartment.


Thats cool.
One day, say you invite me to your house.
Since you believe Im someone to be trusted.
And ....lets say, you leave for a moment.

And on your table you have a nice gold Rolex watch. Nice watch , Danny.

I like that watch. I want to have a watch like that.
But I dont have the money. And I dont have a job. Nor do I really want one.

Whats the RIGHT thing to do here?


Well, Danny, I've fooled you into thinking I am trustworthy, so the RIGHT thing for ME to do is to fvcking steal your watch, b*tch. Fvck you. It's mine now.


So I take your watch, and help myself to some cash lying around.


You see me as I walk out.

Danny: "Hey, WTF???! what are you doing??!!"

Interceptor: "Huh? what do you mean?"

Danny: " Youre taking my watch!!"

Interceptor: (looks at watch and smiles) "Yeah, b*tch. So what? Why are you angry? Whatever.." (as he walks out the door...)



Danny, am I a good guy?

I did the RIGHT thing, didnt I?

I GOT a great new watch, and money!


I got RESULTS, man!!!!

I fooled you, and took your sh*t. And even better....I DONT GIVE a FVCK!
About you, or how I hurt you.

IS this what you want in your life? Is it good? Does it get results?
Does it matter, or is it trivial to you?



Danny, after you start thinking about this, I want to ask you another question.



What IS STOPPING ME, or any OTHER GOOD PERSON from doing what I described above??


Just WHAT is that magic power, that stops me every day from stealing your sh*t, and walking away with everything you own and telling you "Fvck you, Danny!" to your face?

What is stopping me from just taking your car? Your home? Your GF? Your mother's 'virtue'?????!


Think about this, Danny.

And let me know if you're still sure about your current view on these matters.
I am curious to know.

Thanks.

 

[dannyegg4575]

Inceptor, what you saying is true and right. There has to be standards. Stardards are set by experiences.

I guess all I’m saying is, not everything needs to be black and white. Rules in life are meant to be broken. Every situation is different and they are base on the environment, the resources, and the choices we make. And all this is based on the power of choice.

Nothing can stop the people you mentioned from doing the things they do. Nothing. Setting rules will not prevent them from breaking them. It can create a standard for people to follow. Making drugs illegal will not prevent people from doing drugs.

I did have a so-called friend you mentioned that ripped me off $200000. What would make him stop from doing what he did? It’s all base on a choice he made. He saw money on the table, he grabbed it. Was I mad at him? I was… But what would getting mad at him do? It is simply that our friendship didn’t work and I trusted the wrong person. And I made a choice not to easily trust him ever again. If a person needs to stoop as low as him to get what he wants, congratulations to him. He’s managed to make a lot of money out of me but he didn’t take my state of mind. I refuse to let him take that away too. I chose not to let him get to me.

Inceptor, holding on to beliefs is great but sometimes, you need to let go of beliefs for the situation. Don’t let the situation dominate you. And as our idol Bruce mentioned, “be like water my friend, be like water.”
And Einstein states, "Insanity is in doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results."

Well, I’m going to go for a scooter ride with my gf. Hope my little ranting didn’t bother anyone. 

 

[Al Moh.]

Alternative viewpoints... Here is a question for you:

Let's say someone posts a new Idea in the Tips section. What is the first thing you do?

The right thing to do would be to read the post and think about it, don't you think?
But I've got the impression, most of the people here start playing detective:
Before reading the post, they go: Oh, who is the poster? It's pook? Must be a good idea. It's Mr. *MostOfThePeopleBashHim*? Not worth it... I don't know this person? Uhm... AFC oder DJ? Let's read the first sentence... OH, he writes about XYZ... That's unDJlike. Let's bash him that might change his point of view and "save" him...

It's not about the person, it's about the idea. Even a blind chicken sometimes finds a grain And even the most respected poster can be wrong.

Of course, everyone is influenced by his impression on a poster. I always try to just see the idea, then think about it, then read the responses, then think about it some more and either dismiss it or integrate it into my mindset.





One more thought on what is right or wrong. Our morals stem from our conscience. Our morals are usually build trough experiences that trigger a strong emotion. Every believe is connected with an emotion.

You shall not kill.

This believe/moral can come from different experiences connected with different emotions. Here are a few examples for the "You shall not kill" moral.

Faith: God says: You shall not kill. He is the lord and thus he knows what is right and wrong.
Love: Love and repect for humanity. It's not right to take someones life.
Fear: You killed someone or tried to and were punished. No more!
Hate: Someone killed a friend of yours. Now you hate murderers and thus would never become one.


There are different reasons for our believes connected with different emotions. I think what we should try to do is to build our morals by using good emotions. Every believe that stems from real love and respect for yourself and others is usually healthy. Most believes that come from hate or anger aren't.

Thoughts?