Noticing a Paradigm Shift here on SoSuave

sstype

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It is interesting that this site originally started out in a more PUA oriented setting. Now the forum has become more of a self-improvement support group for guys. The general theme of the advice given now is...

1. Look your best
2. Strive to be excellent in school, work, life in general
3. Be masculine
4. Don't take disrespect from anyone
5. Don't give up your balls for any girl
6. Control your emotions

I like it. I feel now that we have been duped by these PUA's and their silly tactics. It is not that people havent tried to apply them. Its that deep down inside, every guy knows that the PUA philosphy does not work and is not natural. Do celebrities, politicians, CEO's, athletes rely on PUA tactics to attract the droves of women they date?

Don't get me wrong, some of the PUA's did have success, but they were few and far between. Their targets were rarely above a 7 (according to their field reports, though they might have been lower) and rarely did they develop any kind of meaningful relationship with the girls they met.

Eventually us SoSuave members began understanding this. We began to understand that obsessing over women, either as nice guy or PUA, was what was making us so socially inept around them. Instead of focusing on how to control things around us, we began to shift towards how we can control whats in us. Internal locus of control vs. external locus of control.

I think the breakthrough came for me when I read Jariel's post, Stop Intellectualizing and Obsessing. Your Only Chance of Success! Every one on here should read that post. I saw myself described perfectly in his post.

Let's face it. A lot of us guys here are social f*ck ups. Acting "alpha" is not going to suddenly make us respected and wanted by everyone. We have to totally overhaul ourselves, physically, mentally, and socially. Its a gradual process that takes lots of time.

I am glad that everyone else is starting to notice that
 

Big Eee Zee

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i agree, focusing on the root of the problem (being a man) is a better way to get women, and be happier in life.

dont treat the symptoms, treat the disease.
 

Bvbidd

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It's so simple.

Just grab your balls and go for it.

Tactics and **** just work as a placebo effect to give you the balls.

Not to say girls don't get jealous when you have other girls interested in you or wonder why your so "****y", or think your funny to be around. That is what the tactics are supposed to make girls think/feel. When really, if your confident and have balls and go for it regardless it'll work.

A lot of times the real diffrence between a "ladies man" or "DJ" and a normal guy, is the normal guy does not make any moves. He goes for the whole one love relationship thing. He gets what he asks for, one girl who is bored.

That PUA tactic DHV **** is bull**** all bull****.

Even if you don't have other girls interested in you or your not ****y, she'll probally still do you regardless if you actually ACT and make the attempt.
 

DJ_in_making

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Bvbidd said:
That PUA tactic DHV **** is bull**** all bull****.
Okay, what are you basing that statement on? this DHV B.S. is actually field tested, trial-and-error advice. You NEED to have a game plan. Walking in situational or simply saying "Hi, how are you" will get you BLOWN OUT by a HB. She heard it from every guy that approached her that night, what would make your "Hi, how are you" different then everyone else's?

Many guys on this site think "just be confident" all your problems are solved. Inner game is only half of it.
 

Never try to read a woman's mind. It is a scary place. Ignore her confusing signals and mixed messages. Assume she is interested in you and act accordingly.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

SELF-MASTERY

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I have always looked down on PUA tactics...
 

Call_Me_Daddy

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SELF-MASTERY said:
I have always looked down on PUA tactics...
Everything has its place. Just remember: It's better than nothing. Would you rather have AFC advice like: "give her flowers" and "treat her nice" and..... other cliched garbage?
 

OfficeSpace

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I owe this site a lot. Before I came here, I let girls be in control of me in relationships, and I wasn't as much of a man as I am now. Not only has this place helped me improve with girls, but also my whole life!

Of course I still was able to get with women, but I wasn't in control of my relationships. Basically if you have looks, and dare to approach, then you'll find some girl that'll be attracted to you. Just remember that you are a man and you must be the dominant one.
 

DJ_in_making

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KillaPetehog said:
I agree…..I’ve said it a million times and I’ll say it again…

Tactics, tips, methods, tricks and pickup lines are cheap.

The problem is...you are NOT Mystery Method, David Deangelo, Gunswitch...or any other fuking bullshyt PUA who tries to convince you to buy thier book. You are a fuking sheep when you hand them your money!

It's a fuking joke when YOU PAY for their seminars, books, and videos.

THEY ARE NOT YOU...AND YOU ARE NOT THEM.

YOU ARE YOU.

And because YOU ARE YOU....whatever bullshyt they try to convince you with WON'T necessarily work for you. BUT what will WORK for you...is to improve yourself....

People have STRAYED from what REALLY matters!!!

Why in the FUK do you have to resort to memorizing lines? That's just the work of a fuking chump....I can understand that you can do that in the beginning, but you just look that much more pathetic when you try to come up with canned lines…It’s FAR MORE effective..when you are natural about it…

If you want to develop yourself socially..this isn't the way to go. You need to go out there and start talking to ALL people. The fuking problem with the mentality of most people here...is that they have focused thier lives on women....and ONLY WOMEN!!! but the truth is that when you have a balanced life....the women will come. Don't just ONLY speak to women..speak to EVERYONE.. Try to have a 10 minute conversation with one NEW person everyday...and I GUARANTEE YOU that will improve your conversation and social skills FAR MORE than trying to say a cheap line to a woman. Hang out with social people.
Look…I’m not here to talk shyt about anyone or anyone’s methods. But I think people are making it more complicated than it really is…

The key is NOT tactics.
The key is NOT tricks.
The key is NOT pickuplines.
The Key is NOT how many approaches you do a day.
The Key is NOT fuking as many stupid women as you can.
The Key is NOT fuking stupid azz girls in clubs.

THE KEY IS YOU.

You have to LIVE YOUR LIFE knowing that you did your best..that you are the best that you can ever be.

A woman has to SEE that YOU are GOING somewhere in life!
And THAT will work FAR BETTER than ANY TACTIC IN ANY FUKING BOOK THAT YOU READ!


If a woman sees that you are ambitious, courageous, determined, powerful, unwavering….a MAN….that will be far more effective than any stupid line you can read in the Mystery Method.

BECAUSE A WOMAN WANTS A MAN WHO WILL GO SOMEWHERE IN LIFE…

A MAN OF PURPOSE.


NOT A MAN WHO READS A BOOKLET OF TRICKS.

How do you become a man of purpose?
How do you become a man of action?

You ALREADY KNOW the attitude of a player…it’s in the DJ Bible..but the DJ bible by itself will do NOTHING for you without action!

And so the first step is ACTION.

The SECOND step is PHYSICAL IMPROVEMENT. You have to seek to become stronger than you were a month ago. Seek for a constant improvement. Get yourself to a gym and learn about the things you eat…and become stronger….Document the reps and sets and weights you do everyday..and SEE your progression. Take a picture of yourself NOW and take a picture of YOU later….and SEE your progression. Because a man who develops his body is a man who will strengthen his confidence and view on life….People who exercise here… know what I’m talking about. When you are physically weak….you let others push you around. You let others have their way with you…But when you develop that strength…and people SEE that you have become STRONGER than you were BEFORE….they don’t EVER FUK with you again….A woman is IN LOVE with a JERK….but she can’t EVER teach a MAN to become a jerk…She can TEACH a man to become a “nice guy”…but she can’t EVER teach a man to become that “jerk”…There is something that she cannot teach a man to become THAT “jerk”…and the “jerk” emanates power, danger, confidence, courage, dominance,…..characteristics that THRIVE when your body becomes stronger.

THINK ABOUT IT. IF THERE ARE two men…who have the SAME ATTITUDE. Two men who think alike. TWO men who “Think” and “act” like men….who would you take seriously? The man with the body of iron…or the boy who “ACTS” like a man and “reads tactics”. In ORDER to become the man..it is MORE than thought…you must become him…and this is FIRST through physical improvement. You must LOOK and ACT the part…

The SECOND Step is MENTAL improvement.
Too many fukers on this website are so devoted to women…that they lose grasp of what’s really important in life. One of the most fascinating books I read was “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” and “Think and Grow Rich”. Rich Dad, Poor Dad talked about how SCHOOL teaches people how to read and write, and about history, science, math, psychology, art, ethics…etc…etc. etc…blah blah blah…BUT!!! You don’t learn MONEY from school… You learn MONEY from your parents. THINK About it! There are fukers out there with a 4.0 with HONORS who DO NOT KNOW how to use their credit card! There are a LOT of smart people out there who aren’t rich…because they haven’t DEVOTED their mind to “FINANCIAL LITERACY” People who are RICH either learned it from their parents or they TOOK the time to read books on finance, real estate, investment…etc. I also learned that it’s not about HOW MUCH money you EARN but how much money you SPEND. A rich man invests his time….and a poor man wastes his time. A poor man looks at something he can’t have and thinks to himself, “I can’t ever get that.” The man with RICH thoughts looks at something he can’t have and thinks to himself, “HOW CAN I GET THAT?! What must I do to GET it!”

If I learned this much from reading a book…..I realized I could learn anything as long as I read the right books..Think about it! Almost EVERYONE you know in your life…goes to their job…works their ass off….and goes home and wastes their time. YOUR MIND is like YOUR body. You feed it shyt…and you will be DUMB as shyt. You feed it well…and you will be more enlightened….When you read books, you become smarter than any cat out there…and that is the SECOND STEP of self-improvement.. THE MAN WHO DOES NOT READ IS NO BETTER OFF THAN THE MAN WHO CAN'T READ!!!!!!!!Learn to VALUE your time….You only have a certain amount of time per day….Don’t spend those hours watching TV..or worrying about shyt…DO SOMETHING that will either HELP YOU …SOCIALLY, MENTALLY, SPIRITUALLY, PHYSICALLY or SEXUALLY….

The THIRD Step of SELF IMPROVEMENT is developing yourself SOCIALLY. Too many fukers want a formula on how to speak to people. There is no formula. The formula is to DO IT..and LEARN from your mistakes. Don’t be so FOCUSED on talking to JUST women…Speak to ALL KINDS of people. I would STRONGLY ENCOURAGE you to take a sales job. Why? Because you deal with new people everyday. Part of the problem in conversation is fear of awkwardness. I PROMISE YOU…that if you SEEK to speak to a NEW person everyday for at least 10 MINUTES a day…you will REMOVE a LOT of your conversational problems….The DJ Bible is a TOOL..but it is USELESS IF YOU CANNOT SPEAK. YOU DO NOT LEARN HOW TO SPEAK FROM READING FORUMS!!!!!. YOU DO NOT LEARN HOW TO SPEAK FROM READING ****Y AND FUNNY LINES AND READING “WEAPONS OF MASS SEDUCTION”

YOU LEARN HOW TO SPEAK TO A WOMAN BY DOING IT! If you CONSTANTLY speak to new people everyday..you WILL develop your social skills and it will come second nature to you….Pretty soon, it comes so natural to you…that you don’t even think of pickup lines because YOU WILL know the RIGHT words to say.

As I mentioned before…the DJ BIBLE is a tool….but it will get you NOWHERE unless you DEVELOP yourself to match the words in that book.


EVERYONE knows the rules of basketball…but few people have game.

You need to LEARN as they did. You need to FIGHT as they did. You need to have the BODY as they did. You need to have the same MENTALITY as they did. You need to have same DRIVE as they did.

Reading Pook’s “BE a man” post will get you nowhere if you are exactly the same person you were yesterday.

Reading “Weapons of Mass Seduction” by Senor Fingers will do you NOTHING if you don’t make an effort to GO OUT THERE and speak to beautiful stranger EVERY DAY..from here on out. These books and tips are tools…but it’s YOU who has to go out there and do it…

All of you already know the rules already….
Now it’s time to change.

A woman has to SEE that YOU are GOING somewhere in life!
And THAT will work FAR BETTER than ANY TACTIC IN ANY FUKING BOOK THAT YOU READ!

If a woman sees that you are ambitious, courageous, determined, powerful, unwavering….a MAN….that will be far more effective than any stupid line you can read in the Mystery Method.

BECAUSE A WOMAN WANTS A MAN WHO WILL GO SOMEWHERE IN LIFE…

A MAN OF PURPOSE.

NOT A MAN WHO READS A BOOKLET OF TRICKS.
:rolleyes: Oh, really? So why is it that so many successful guys that are going places in life are still having a lot of problems dealing w/ women? Being a "confident" and "great" guy isn't enough to get her interested in you. If you're a confident and great guy and can't demonstrate that to her what's the point?
 

Visceral

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Why is it that only a handful of those who come here ever actually do anything with what they learn?

What's wrong with the rest and how can it be fixed?
 

SELF-MASTERY

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Visceral said:
Why is it that only a handful of those who come here ever actually do anything with what they learn?

What's wrong with the rest and how can it be fixed?

They don't want to change and they allow fear to ruin their lives. There is nothing we can do, but what we already do. Maybe we should have like a cold approach challenge every week, challenging guys to make X amount of CA's by the end of the week?

I'm thinking about starting my own forum this place grows suckier by the month.
 

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sstype

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DJ_in_making said:
:rolleyes: Oh, really? So why is it that so many successful guys that are going places in life are still having a lot of problems dealing w/ women? Being a "confident" and "great" guy isn't enough to get her interested in you. If you're a confident and great guy and can't demonstrate that to her what's the point?
Oh please, thats the same arguement as "I know this hunk that never gets laid"
That is few and far between. For every successful man that is having problems with women, there are 1000 unsuccessful men with the same problem.

You're right, dont even bother trying to be the best, what's the point? :rolleyes:
 

DJ_in_making

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sstype said:
You're right, dont even bother trying to be the best, what's the point? :rolleyes:
You really had to go as far as to mis-quote me just to prove your point? If you have either one w/o the other ur screwed. Like Javelin44 said

inner=you convinced yourself
outer=you convinced everyone else

If you're a guy that looks and feels great but don't know how the right way to approach you're like a skilled hunter w/o a gun that's the best I can do. I can't change anyone's understanding I can only show you the way I see it. If you don't get it there's nothing more I can say.
 

SELF-MASTERY

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The most important thing is not to get so caught in all this self-help shyt to the point that you don't work on your 'game.' I'm all for people working on their insecurities and trouble area in their life, but don't forget that you become good at this game through experience. You have to cover all bases; not just inner game.

CONFIDENCE THROUGH ACTION


--- MIND WORK WITHOUT FIELD WORK IS BULL----!
 

Visceral

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SELF-MASTERY said:
They don't want to change and they allow fear to ruin their lives. There is nothing we can do, but what we already do. Maybe we should have like a cold approach challenge every week, challenging guys to make X amount of CA's by the end of the week?

I'm thinking about starting my own forum this place grows suckier by the month.
I disagree. The way I see it, it's not that they're not interested in what we're selling - or else they wouldn't even be here - it's that they're really, really cheap. In my mind, if they're scared of anything, they're scared of the high price of greatness. How do you sell something to a cheap customer? More importantly, how do you sell something to a poor customer ... since these guys probably can't put as much into self-improvement and seduction (at least not right off the bat) as a more skilled and motivated man could?

I can't accept that. For one, if the problem is on the AFC loser's end, then I tend to think that he's the last one who would come up with a solution. He's certainly the weak link in the chain, and any solution that treats him like a normal man wth plenty of ambition, mental toughness, and self-love is guaranteed to fail. We have to build them up enough to at least get them going; they can't be driven by their accomplishments or sense of confidence if they don't have any.

Cold approaches would not be a successful challenge because it's too big of a leap for a beginner to make. If simply socializing with people they already know is so difficult and scary, then their heads would explode at the prospect of cold approaching a woman. Making the first lesson the hardest would only be good for weeding weaker guys out, but maybe that's your goal.
 

SELF-MASTERY

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Making the first lesson the hardest would only be good for weeding weaker guys out, but maybe that's your goal.
Some of these guys are beyond help and there isn't much we can do over the internet to teach a guy how to be social. The motivation to improve has to be intrinsic. I think that there goals should be lower, as in finding their female equivalent and working from there. As PS said: "some of you guys need a starter HO." I guess it is like buying a desert eagle as your first gun...

BTW- The DJ bootcamp is a joke. "Say HI to 20 -people- by the end of the week. Come on... Get Real...
 

Jariel

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I agree with the original post because I've noticed this change occurred within myself. I started out looking to the PUAs and seduction gurus for quick tips and manipulation advice, but after seeing no success and getting myself into a worse state than when I started, I was left with a lot of doubts.

At some point I started to identify my flaws and personal issues and look at why I was failing with women in the first place. Next, I worked on fixing them. Then I looked towards improving on what I already have and finally I started getting the results with women and the confidence I was striving for.

I will always promote self improvement because that's what got me results when all else failed.
 

RedPill

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Jariel said:
I will always promote self improvement because that's what got me results when all else failed.
Good call.

Pick-up Artistry = faking it

Self-Improvement = making it

Fake it 'til you make it... but only if you're actually making it.
 

Visceral

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SELF-MASTERY said:
Some of these guys are beyond help and there isn't much we can do over the internet to teach a guy how to be social. The motivation to improve has to be intrinsic. I think that there goals should be lower, as in finding their female equivalent and working from there. As PS said: "some of you guys need a starter HO." I guess it is like buying a desert eagle as your first gun...

BTW- The DJ bootcamp is a joke. "Say HI to 20 -people- by the end of the week. Come on... Get Real...
Teaching guys how to be social is easy: general guidelines of what to do and what not to do, illustrated by real-world examples. True, you can't get experience from reading posts, but who is expecting this?

What is hard, and IMO what both the newbies and the veterans keep stumbling over, is actually getting these guys out there and trying out what they've learned. There is only one obstacle: the obstacle of effort. There is only one fear: the fear of pain.

Seriously, the comfort zone is the only problem guys here have as far as I'm concerned. Every other failing can be fixed with information and sh!tloads of practice.
 

Peace and Quiet

If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.

Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

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