Not getting IOIs

[#41]

I know it varies from person to person, but how many IOIs (making and holding eye contact, smiling, etc.) do you usually get on a typical "night out" at a larger bar / club?

I ask, because it seems like for the last few months I've been getting absolutely nothing while out and about. When I see women I'm interested in approaching, I usually try to make eye contact to see if there's any interest and I have been getting absolutely nothing. Smiles don't get returned, eye contact is broken almost immediately. As a result, I've been approaching less and less due to never getting that initial buying sign.

I'm not terribly unattractive, I dress nicely, I'm not out of shape (though, admittedly, I don't have the physical definition to join the tight t-shirt fad), etc. I am quite tall (over 6'8"), but other than that there isn't anything strange or odd about me that I'm aware of. I try to keep my body language open, I laugh and joke around with friends a lot when I'm out, so I don't think I'm putting off a bad vibe?

Do I just chalk this up as a rough patch and approach anyway even without any buying signs, or is there something else I should be looking at about myself or how I act at the bar? I wouldn't ask, except it seems like it's been months since I had anything go my way.

 

[DMSR76]

Significantly tall guys usually never have a problem standing out. Assuming that you haven't noticed any changes in your own behavior, I'd probably chalk this up to a bit of a dry spell. It happens at times.

Humans a creatures of habit. One thing I (erroneously) do at times is get into the habit of hanging out at the same spots and mingling with the same 'types' of people. When I begin to see familiar faces, I know that it's time to change my venue routine. There's an advantage to being a fresh face at a particular night venue.

 

[edger]

I know it varies from person to person, but how many IOIs (making and holding eye contact, smiling, etc.) do you usually get on a typical "night out" at a larger bar / club?

I ask, because it seems like for the last few months I've been getting absolutely nothing while out and about. When I see women I'm interested in approaching, I usually try to make eye contact to see if there's any interest and I have been getting absolutely nothing. Smiles don't get returned, eye contact is broken almost immediately. As a result, I've been approaching less and less due to never getting that initial buying sign.

I'm not terribly unattractive, I dress nicely, I'm not out of shape (though, admittedly, I don't have the physical definition to join the tight t-shirt fad), etc. I am quite tall (over 6'8"), but other than that there isn't anything strange or odd about me that I'm aware of. I try to keep my body language open, I laugh and joke around with friends a lot when I'm out, so I don't think I'm putting off a bad vibe?

Do I just chalk this up as a rough patch and approach anyway even without any buying signs, or is there something else I should be looking at about myself or how I act at the bar? I wouldn't ask, except it seems like it's been months since I had anything go my way.

What else is new? This is how it is MOST of the time I go out, although lately, for God knows what reason, I've been getting more vibes(buying signals) from hotties. And I'm not doing anything differently AT ALL as compared to 8 months ago. Life is very strange, that's all I can say.

Now, you claim you're "not terribly" unattractive. Well, I can say without a doubt, I'm above avg.-looking. It's been said to me many times from men and women(attractive women that is) alike. Not that I really need their confirmation, but when I look at pictures or look at myself in the mirror, I see it myself. So, yeah, I'm a good-looking guy, yet still, most of the time don't get vibes(buying signals). Women simply don't give a sh*t that I'm good-looking. That's the truth of it. Most women are not phased by good-looking men.

 

[grinder]

Without saying a word you are communicating in literally hundreds of non verbal ways.

This can’t be taught and it can’t be faked. And, for the most part, you are unaware of the vibe you are giving off. It’s very subtle.

Women react to in without knowing how they react to it.

As DonS says, confidence is the key. This is a way of being.

 

[countermart]

One thing I’m qualified to talk about is IOIs, hence my earlier post question on AWs and IOI and sifting, that seemed to get some people steamed up.

IOIs are all about the vibe you are giving off. I’ve actually experimented with this. Real world tested. There is nothing verbal here.

If you have a negative attitude, low confidence, are defeatist, stressed, look down or are asexual you will get no IOIs.

There are three mindsets that work:

1. I am in a hurry, I know what I want, I go after it, I’ll f*** you to the bed post.
2. Playboy. Lighter fun sexual. Girls are cute lets play.
3. I’m Countermart and girls love to f*** me.

OK sounds stupid right. But before you criticise it field test this. Walk into a crowded bar or through a shopping mall, or down the street and say one of the above over and over in your head, act it in your attitude, and body language, believe it.

If you do it right you will swim in a misty sea of girls eyes, the licking of lips, and the occasional wave.

I am told I’m good looking, but I think that is a very subjective thing, especially for girls. In a way I think you become good looking by changing your attitude...yes very zen.

I regularly get IOIs as long as I am holding one of the three attitudes firmly in mind. For instance last night I was at a play with a new girl and another girl in the row in front and four seats down pointedly turned right around and gazed into my eyes twice. I was almost like stop doing that, I like the girl I’m with and you are going to stuff it up.

When I am not with a girl I will get about say on average two or three IOIs a night at a busy bar, or say in a 15 minute walk through a busy mall.

But remember this NONE at all if I am not holding one of the three attitudes firmly in mind. I’ve tried it, tested it, and it works for me and I have come to the conclusion that girls have a 6th sense to pick up on it.

Countermart

 

[insidious]

Good subject.
For better or for worse, many of us use IOI's as a yardstick by which to measure our own physical self-worth. Bullshyt, I know, and a terrible way to interact with the world. But it is what it is.

I've noticed that those periods in which I'm able to distance myself from this thought pattern, the IOI's improve. When I'm self-conscious about the dynamic then it seems women disregard me entirely.

The vibe you portray is key.
Right now I'm in a down cycle and I'm trying hard to stir things up.

#41, you are very, very tall...tall enough that many shorter or average-sized girls might be a bit intimidated. I bet you can pull the 5'10" and above chicks though...these women are not used to being dwarfed

 

[acw]

Gospel....If you waite for chicks to give you IOI, YOU will be doing quite a bit of masturbating.

And....as far as being good looking....Here's how you know; When you are a Male that chicks want to jump (have sex with)...they will phone call YOU!...When you give out your phone number to HB's and they call you....That's how you tell if you are a GREAT LOOKER!

Ask me how i know this....;-)

BTW....If you are a STUD MUFFIN, don't depend on your Looks to get you very much PvSSY. Looks can open the door for you...but Personality and Charm go much further than having a Great Bod and Chiseled Features....

Ask me how i know this....;-)

If you are waiting for eye-contact from Chicks...you'll be waiting a long time.

If a chick gives you swarthy eye contact..it usually means...she wants your !~ck!

Forget about waiting for eye contact. Just go up and get your game on...

Its a numbers game...and if you have a GREAT or good personality and can make Girls Laugh....you will do much better then waiting for eye contact.

 

[MisterMcGee]

I don't go out often but where I work (movie theatre) I get checked out often. I'm skinny, 5'11"-6', curly hair and such. I do fine, but I don't pull

 

[Jitterbug]

I ask, because it seems like for the last few months I've been getting absolutely nothing while out and about. When I see women I'm interested in approaching, I usually try to make eye contact to see if there's any interest and I have been getting absolutely nothing. Smiles don't get returned, eye contact is broken almost immediately. As a result, I've been approaching less and less due to never getting that initial buying sign.

I think for a big tall guy like you, you gotta be more subtle & indirect, because if you try to make direct eye contact and approach like that, chicks are intimidated so they won't return your smile or eye contact. A direct approach is generally better for less intimidating guys.

Instead of making eye contact & smiling from afar prior to the approach, subtly position yourself in proximity of those girls (like going to get a drink, on the way back from the toilet, going over to greet a friend etc.) and make a passing comment while you walk by, or turn around.

If you stand there waiting for IOIs, you'll be waiting for a LONG time. I only know ONE guy who gets girls throwing IOIs at him and approaching him wanting to take you home, and it's because he's a 10 in look and has the exotic factor ("hot" accent - he's French). Still, it's a problem for him as he's "prettier" than most girls that approach him so he has to get off his arse and approach the "10" girls.

 

[edger]

If you are waiting for eye-contact from Chicks...you'll be waiting a long time.

Yeah, it's so true..I've always said this. That's why if you're a guy who's into cold-approaching, you have to take advantage of it. Because like it's being said in this thread, if you wait for vibes(buying signs), you'll pretty much be waiting your life away. You have to play the numbers game and gamble. Most hot women aren't phased by good-looking men and will not give you any buying signs whatsoever.

 

[Jeffst1980]

There are a plethora of reasons why you may not be getting IOI's, none of which have to do with your looks.

Going out to larger clubs is a big part of it--there's simply too much stimulus for meaningful eye contact to occur much of the time. If you went out to smaller pub-type places, you'll likely get approached based on your height alone. 6'8"??? Damn.

It's hard to approach without invitation--I don't blame you for not following through on a lot of those approaches. You don't want a pickup to feel forced and uncomfortable, and furthermore it's a waste of time to game disinterested girls. So, let's figure out how to get you some buying signals.

The smiling and relaxed body language is good--you should be smiling ALL THE TIME, at everyone. Having fun is good, too--the worst thing to do is stand around and look at girls without approaching.

When you enter the place, you want to get into a large set IMMEDIATELY, just to get in a social state, and hopefully set up a home base. Don't worry about buying signals for this one; pick a large, fun, mixed set, and ask someone in it to give you the scoop on the group: Who's birthday it is, what school/company they're all from, etc. Qualify them by telling them they look like the most fun group there, so you had to say what's up. Then, get your new friend to introduce you to the rest of the group. Do this with confidence and without hesitation, and you will build massive value for yourself. From there, other sets should open easily; at the very least, this will give you a safe place to return to if business is slow.

My other suggestion is to capitalize on your natural peacocking trait--your height. Being that tall pretty much gives you license to be as over-the-top as you wish, so have some fun with it. The rule with peacocking is that you MUST NOT feel self-conscious; otherwise, you are not congruent. Instead, you must EMBRACE and REVEL in your alpha-ness. You are, for all intensive purposes, ALWAYS peacocking--everyone notices you. Accept this and allow it to grant you the freedom to be more alpha and less approval-seeking. The more comfortable you are with yourself, the more girls will be comfortable with you. You have the potential to do some serious damage in the field!

Best of luck, hope this helps.

 

[countermart]

“Yeah, it's so true..I've always said this. That's why if you're a guy who's into cold-approaching, you have to take advantage of it. Because like it's being said in this thread, if you wait for vibes(buying signs), you'll pretty much be waiting your life away. You have to play the numbers game and gamble. Most hot women aren't phased by good-looking men and will not give you any buying signs whatsoever.”

Edger I like you buddy but this is just plain wrong. Hot girls 8 -10 will often give IOIs in my experience. It is the lower down the chain girls 6 and below that never give IOIs. I think because they lack the confidence to give them. I have also read elsewhere in this forum that hot girls do not give any signs of attraction, this has not been my experience at all. Also they are often phased by good looking men.

I also totally disagree with the common view on SS that all the hot girls are taken. My experience is that good looking/beautiful, smart women with degree qualifications are very often not taken. Firstly, their intelligence scares some guys off, and their looks scares some more off, and commonly they are looking for LTRs and that scares some more off, and then they are left having to give IOIs because they are alone.

I’m 44 yet I am going out with girls that are early 30s and fit this description and I know others that would like to go out with me but when I meet them I pass because I can’t’ find anything to talk to them about. In fact I have no luck with lower down the chain girls, they just straight up say no when I ask them out, and they NEVER give me IOIs, so now I do not even bother. The only reason I ever bothered was because I believed the IOI and availability myths at first. Having got into this forum after a very LTR that ended.

My biggest problem is in fact that when I get IOIs from beautiful women I am the one still often intimidated, even though I’m getting the IOI. I’m still working on this, we’re all working on something!

I am not talking about the hot outgoing party, night club style girls with the vibe, they are usually gone and that is certainly not my stamping ground. Frankly I think these girls have too many options anyway, because they are theoretically “attainable” from most guys perspective.

I think approaching without an IOI would be very daunting unless you do comment openers just to test buying temperature, and in any case this is so not necessary. Try and do what I suggested in my above post, just try it buddy, and believe it, and if you look half decent I bet you will get some IOIs, like looking into your eyes, or licking of lips or the hair flick or just walk up to you and introduce themselves. It works, I don’t know why it does and sometimes I am shocked by the results but it does. You just have to try it and believe it.

Countermart

 

[DMSR76]

There are a plethora of reasons why you may not be getting IOI's, none of which have to do with your looks.

Going out to larger clubs is a big part of it--there's simply too much stimulus for meaningful eye contact to occur much of the time. If you went out to smaller pub-type places, you'll likely get approached based on your height alone. 6'8"??? Damn.

It's hard to approach without invitation--I don't blame you for not following through on a lot of those approaches. You don't want a pickup to feel forced and uncomfortable, and furthermore it's a waste of time to game disinterested girls. So, let's figure out how to get you some buying signals.

The smiling and relaxed body language is good--you should be smiling ALL THE TIME, at everyone. Having fun is good, too--the worst thing to do is stand around and look at girls without approaching.

When you enter the place, you want to get into a large set IMMEDIATELY, just to get in a social state, and hopefully set up a home base. Don't worry about buying signals for this one; pick a large, fun, mixed set, and ask someone in it to give you the scoop on the group: Who's birthday it is, what school/company they're all from, etc. Qualify them by telling them they look like the most fun group there, so you had to say what's up. Then, get your new friend to introduce you to the rest of the group. Do this with confidence and without hesitation, and you will build massive value for yourself. From there, other sets should open easily; at the very least, this will give you a safe place to return to if business is slow.

My other suggestion is to capitalize on your natural peacocking trait--your height. Being that tall pretty much gives you license to be as over-the-top as you wish, so have some fun with it. The rule with peacocking is that you MUST NOT feel self-conscious; otherwise, you are not congruent. Instead, you must EMBRACE and REVEL in your alpha-ness. You are, for all intensive purposes, ALWAYS peacocking--everyone notices you. Accept this and allow it to grant you the freedom to be more alpha and less approval-seeking. The more comfortable you are with yourself, the more girls will be comfortable with you. You have the potential to do some serious damage in the field!

Best of luck, hope this helps.

Nice tips.

 

[Micheal Moon]

In my opinion if you are walking around "looking for girls", it becomes obvious and on a subconcious level girls pick up on it. Futhermore it gives off a vibe of insecurity and low confidence.

I honestly find you get more IOI's when you are just in the moment and not thinking about "it". I know its hard, but its something I have gradually trained myself to do.

Also sometimes us guys miss a lot of IOI's that we don't notice. Girls are very subtle. Does she ask for your'e name? Ask you for directions somewhere? Is she looking your direction and looking away when you look back? (some girls are shy). Sometimes,,these do fall under IOI's and I've missed out on several lookers because I was too dumb to notice (several times).

I don't think your'e the only guy this happens to though. I was talking about this very same subject with a friend a while back (who does very well with women) and he says he gets the same thing. Sometimes there are times where it seems like every girl looks at you and theres a periods where its like you don't even exist. It happens.

At the same time IOI's are good but I don't think its something you should completely rely on. I like them to, and use them but if you are not getting anything just go for the direct approach (when you have the opportunity) and go talk to them. It sucks but sometimes you can't afford to wait.

 

[edger]

At the same time IOI's are good but I don't think its something you should completely rely on. I like them to, and use them but if you are not getting anything just go for the direct approach (when you have the opportunity) and go talk to them. It sucks but sometimes you can't afford to wait.

Yeah, you truly can't rely on vibes. You really have no choice but to cold-approach..cause if not, you'll be waiting a long time before you get vibes from another woman, no matter how good-looking you are. It's essential you get into the habit to literally keep telling yourself silently that if you get stung during a cold approach, that "the problem is not you, it's them". Guys it's so true, the problem is not you, it's them. You're a true prize, they would be grateful if they could get a piece of you...f*ckin' grateful. All these ugly dudes they're with, you are 10x hotter...you're a cool, fun guy, who likes to have a good time and doesn't take life too seriously. She wishes she could be with you. Too bad she doesn't realize that. Yeah, I know, easier said than done, especially when you are telling yourself this and still nothing's working in your favor, but once again, it's not working in your favor because the problem is them, not you. You're doing everything a man can possibly do to be a ladies man. My 42 yr old buddy in the club scene who regularly cold-approaches hotties in their early to mid-20's with good success, reinforced this truth this past weekend. I was speaking to him about how I don't care for cold-approaching, and he was like, "the problem isn't you, it's THEM. I've always known that, but it just reinforced that truth.

 

[Mr. Me]

>> You're doing everything a man can possibly do to be a ladies man.>>

Let me give you some truisms here. These hold true for anything in life:

This "I'm doing everything I possibly can" is always never true. You hear women say this all the time, The truth is, there's always still one thing more you haven't tried.

If what you have tried just doesn't work, don't "try, try again". Try something different instead or get the same results.

When something doesn't work, then it's probably that the world doesn't work the way you think it should or does. Rather then waiting on the world to work according to they way you think it should be or protesting that it should, realize that your thinking is what's wrong and acclimate yourself to spin the way the world does.

Insofar as IOIs, you know, sometimes, most times, it's not much more then a mere fraction of a millisecond of a prolonged look. See if you can start to notice that. But yeah, even if you don't get that from someone, who's to say she didn't already check you out and is just playing it cool? You know, women have better peripheral vision then guys, they can check you out even when you're sideways to them without you aware of it.

 

[GQ_Confidence_1]

I know it varies from person to person, but how many IOIs (making and holding eye contact, smiling, etc.) do you usually get on a typical "night out" at a larger bar / club?

I ask, because it seems like for the last few months I've been getting absolutely nothing while out and about. When I see women I'm interested in approaching, I usually try to make eye contact to see if there's any interest and I have been getting absolutely nothing. Smiles don't get returned, eye contact is broken almost immediately. As a result, I've been approaching less and less due to never getting that initial buying sign.

I'm not terribly unattractive, I dress nicely, I'm not out of shape (though, admittedly, I don't have the physical definition to join the tight t-shirt fad), etc. I am quite tall (over 6'8"), but other than that there isn't anything strange or odd about me that I'm aware of. I try to keep my body language open, I laugh and joke around with friends a lot when I'm out, so I don't think I'm putting off a bad vibe?

Do I just chalk this up as a rough patch and approach anyway even without any buying signs, or is there something else I should be looking at about myself or how I act at the bar? I wouldn't ask, except it seems like it's been months since I had anything go my way.

IOI's are all about your mental state.

The ideal state to be in IMO is that of the natural man. There's a thread here about, "obey your d*ck", that's 100% the truth.

In your natural state, obeying your d*ck, you don't care. You have tons of other women running through your mind. Women pick up on this subconsciously.

Why would you care about her, your d*ck is in dozens of other p*ssies in your natural state.

The rules are basically immutable. When you go out "looking for girls", girls can smell it a mile away, and of course no IOI's. Do the exact opposite, you dont care, and their IOI's shoot up.

The irony is that most girls aren't use to guys in their natural states. So once you break past that barrier, you can have her in 30 minutes or something.

A good prep before you go out, might be to look at guys and girls in their natural state, like on flickr (which has tons of pictures). They arent trying so hard. They arent moving so fast. Theres a zen like calm to it. But the biggest reason for no IOI's is trying too hard.

 

[kody_starr]

If she's breathing, it's an IOI. If she's talking to you, HEAVY IOI. If you're reading this site, it's an IOI.

 

[Micheal Moon]

I agree with GQ confidence, its just about being in a natural state. I had a really good cold approach yesterday and number closed a cute Middle Eastern girl. I was actually not even paying attention when she sat down beside me (on the bus which I take occassionally).

It was only when I got the IOI's that I noticed her. Trying to get eye contact, playing with her hair which I notice girls do subconsciously and they don't even notice it I think. I just escalated it and started the convo from there.

I was just relaxing (and actually felt a little drowsy from some allergy meds I took).

 

[edger]

Insofar as IOIs, you know, sometimes, most times, it's not much more then a mere fraction of a millisecond of a prolonged look. See if you can start to notice that. But yeah, even if you don't get that from someone, who's to say she didn't already check you out and is just playing it cool? You know, women have better peripheral vision then guys, they can check you out even when you're sideways to them without you aware of it.

I don't know, it doesn't make sense that if a woman's interested in you, why she'd make it appear as if she's NOT interested in you. You ask yourself, why would she do that? She'd only be making things difficult for herself, and the guy will never know she's interested. In order for a guy to pick up on it, she has to make it AT LEAST a little obvious that she's interested. No?