Not eating starch bad?

[uzio]

Meats don't contain good fats - they are mostly saturated fats, altho in this amount they are actually needed.

Good fats are unsaturated ones - best mix is in olive oil and rapeseed/canola oil - just make sure those are not refined ones (ferinstance the only good olive oil is of the First Virgin type).

Just throw a few tablespoons here and there

Fish oil is a great source of omega-3 fats and vitamins A and D.

Nuts are good, but note, that they also contain carbs and cannot be really considered good protein. Which nuts we are talking about. A few of them is ok, but don't rely on them as a source of anything but maybe omega-3 fats.

Good carbs really don't mean only veggies (and really - don't rely too much on fruit). Parboiled/Brown Rice, Brown Pasta and Oatmeal are also very good - esp in the morning.

In moderation you can eat corn flakes and potatoes.

You may be surprised, but dark chocolate (with 70%+ cocoa content) and real peanut butter (both sugar free that is) are also good (in moderation).

BTW - if you want to fry (and you really should not) then use... lard. Plant oils or butter are big _no_ here.

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by uzio
Bullcrap. Dextrose = Glucose. Or more specifically. Dextrose is one of the isomers of glucose.

A carb that is made of two particles of glucose is maltose.

And besides - there are foods that have _higher_ GI then glucose (go figure)



I did. First you go for ketosis, and then load up carbs (1-2 days before the event) to get maximum possible amount of glycogen in the muscles (supercompensation may increase your glycogen storage by 50%). In that stage it does not really matter if it is a mono or poli carb.



Fyi - you eat pasta 2-3 hours before the event, and rely on simple carbs during the event. That is why I said that it has some meaning.



Can you back it up? Besides - I didn't say its healthy, I said it is to avoid insulin spikes.

you post 2 much ****, the fact is glucose IS NOT found outside the body, dextrose IS the highest gi.

and anything to do with keto is ****ed, its called YOUR BRAIN, among other tissues.

ps. our evolution, thats why you avoid processed foods to be healthy.

were here for health, so think again there.

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by NewDude001
Wow, thanks for all that guys This doesn't really prove or disprove a meat/fish, nuts, veggies, and fruits diet being good or bad for an active, growing teenager. Eating Fruits and Veggies (even though veggies are VERY low in carbs) seems to be a much healthier alternative to the typical American's carbs from grains. Not only is it healthier, it also prevents insuline spikes.

you are seriously misguided if you think your face will become like the way models faces look on the covers of magazines. Even they have imperfect skin, its all fixed up for magazine.

your diet there is basically a low carb diet, cause i dont see you eating enough fruit.veggies.

 

[uzio]

you post 2 much ****, the fact is glucose IS NOT found outside the body, dextrose IS the highest gi.

No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose

"The natural form (D-glucose) is also referred to as dextrose, especially in the food industry"

ANyhoo - research for GI of dried dates - ye'll see it is ~103 which is higher then glucose.

But that is not all - pure maltose has GI of 110.

and anything to do with keto is ****ed, its called YOUR BRAIN, among other tissues.

Yea - what about it?

ps. our evolution, thats why you avoid processed foods to be healthy.

Yes

were here for health, so think again there.

Apparently.

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by uzio
No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose

"The natural form (D-glucose) is also referred to as dextrose, especially in the food industry"

ANyhoo - research for GI of dried dates - ye'll see it is ~103 which is higher then glucose.

But that is not all - pure maltose has GI of 110.

Dextrose, wich is 2 glucose put together, i dunno what you are trying to argue.
Dextrose is the best, i dont want fructose (part of maltose), i dont care about some bull**** when I know the truth.

 

[uzio]

Originally posted by RaWBLooD
Dextrose, wich is 2 glucose put together, i dunno what you are trying to argue.
Dextrose is the best, i dont want fructose (part of maltose), i dont care about some bull**** when I know the truth.

http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/546maltose.html

Maltose or malt sugar is the least common disaccharide in nature. It is present in germinating grain, in a small proportion in corn syrup, and forms on the partial hydrolysis of starch. It is a reducing sugar.

The two glucose units are joined by an acetal oxygen bridge in the alpha orientation.

Sir, does it really hurt so bad to be so damn wrong?

Dextrose = Glucose
Maltose = 2 units of Glucose.

In science it is usual to back your claims with evidence. Could you post a link to evidence that Dextrose is really 2-unit glucose? Because every search I do seems to point into the fact to the contarary.

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by uzio
http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/546maltose.html



Sir, does it really hurt so bad to be so damn wrong?

Dextrose = Glucose
Maltose = 2 units of Glucose.

In science it is usual to back your claims with evidence. Could you post a link to evidence that Dextrose is really 2-unit glucose? Because every search I do seems to point into the fact to the contarary.

well sir, im glad you just did all the argument for my side! showing how dextrose is better than maltose.

THANK U FOR PLAYING,
does everyone have a fun time manipulating you?

 

[uzio]

Originally posted by RaWBLooD
well sir, im glad you just did all the argument for my side! showing how dextrose is better than maltose.

Psst - just to point you to the fact, that we were not discussing what is better - maltose or dextrose/glucose.

We were pointing you to the fact that glucose and dextrose is the same thing, and that maltose has higher GI then dextrose/glucose.

We were discussing your ignorance in the matter of terminology - shall I say - noob And I can say we beautifully showed that?

Unless sir, you can point to my posts to say where I said that glucose is better/worse then maltose - ah heck - where I even tried to compare the two (apart from showing that maltose has GI of 110).

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by uzio
Psst - just to point you to the fact, that we were not discussing what is better - maltose or dextrose/glucose.

We were pointing you to the fact that glucose and dextrose is the same thing, and that maltose has higher GI then dextrose/glucose.

We were discussing your ignorance in the matter of terminology - shall I say - noob And I can say we beautifully showed that?

Unless sir, you can point to my posts to say where I said that glucose is better/worse then maltose - ah heck - where I even tried to compare the two (apart from showing that maltose has GI of 110).

you just showed how dextrose has a the highest gi.
DOES EVERYONE HAVE A FUN TIME CONFUSING YOU?:crackup:

 

[uzio]

Originally posted by RaWBLooD
you just showed how dextrose has a the highest gi.
DOES EVERYONE HAVE A FUN TIME CONFUSING YOU?:crackup:

I don't think this actually deserves the dignity of response. So whateva...

I'm not gonna waste any more of my time on you.

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by uzio
I don't think this actually deserves the dignity of response. So whateva...

I'm not gonna waste any more of my time on you.

thanks for playing, you get sidetracked easily.

 

[NewDude001]

you are seriously misguided if you think your face will become like the way models faces look on the covers of magazines. Even they have imperfect skin, its all fixed up for magazine.

your diet there is basically a low carb diet, cause i dont see you eating enough fruit.veggies.



----Wow, where did that come from? I never said you'd have the skin of a model, nor did I ever mention models having perfect skin. I simply connected a low GI diet to better skin and body. Second, the diet is a low GI diet with dairy being cut out. Third, it is easy to get enough carbs if you eat beans, oatmeal, nuts, and lots of fruits daily.

 

[uzio]

Originally posted by NewDude001 I simply connected a low GI diet to better skin and body.

This actually might be connected with better quality fats you eat - because from your initial post it seems that your diet is rather low on carbs.

Second, the diet is a low GI diet with dairy being cut out.

Another possible cause. Milk contains lactose - which quite a few people is allergic to, and alot more don't even digest (lack of required enzymes). You may have been allergic to lactose - thus your skin problems might have been linked with it.

Third, it is easy to get enough carbs if you eat beans, oatmeal, nuts, and lots of fruits daily.

Actually human needs for dietary carbs = 0 It just happened that they are so damn convinient as an energy source.

Beans are soso - better rely on green veggies, rice and oatmeal. But - I already told you so didn't I

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by uzio
This actually might be connected with better quality fats you eat - because from your initial post it seems that your diet is rather low on carbs.



Another possible cause. Milk contains lactose - which quite a few people is allergic to, and alot more don't even digest (lack of required enzymes). You may have been allergic to lactose - thus your skin problems might have been linked with it.



Actually human needs for dietary carbs = 0 It just happened that they are so damn convinient as an energy source.

Beans are soso - better rely on green veggies, rice and oatmeal. But - I already told you so didn't I

so you are saying getting all your carbs through protein is the best way to do it? cause ketones cant feed your brain, and if you eat all that the human body needs ( = 0 ) then protein will be what feeds your glucose needs, that doesnt sound efficient.

 

[uzio]

Originally posted by RaWBLooD
so you are saying getting all your carbs through protein is the best way to do it? cause ketones cant feed your brain, and if you eat all that the human body needs ( = 0 ) then protein will be what feeds your glucose needs, that doesnt sound efficient.

To survive the body does need carbs (there are no 'essential carbs'). If you don't believe me go see eskimos - they are 'by default' on no carb diet - and yet they live.

All glucose needed to feed the brain can be obtained from braking up fats (glycerol part) and dietary proteins.

And since you already showed in this thread that the sources of your "knowledge" are a bit "rusty", then I shall abstain from elaborating.

And I still don't know where did you get that I am for using proteins as a source of carbs... really. You want carbs - eat carbs simple ey?

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by uzio
To survive the body does need carbs (there are no 'essential carbs'). If you don't believe me go see eskimos - they are 'by default' on no carb diet - and yet they live.

All glucose needed to feed the brain can be obtained from braking up fats (glycerol part) and dietary proteins.

And since you already showed in this thread that the sources of your "knowledge" are a bit "rusty", then I shall abstain from elaborating.

And I still don't know where did you get that I am for using proteins as a source of carbs... really. You want carbs - eat carbs simple ey?

you just explained in your own post at the beginning how proteins will be your source of glucose, then you ask me at the bottom how is that possible, are you forgetful ?

Anyways, using protein for your glucose needs is inefficient.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Not sure how this got so far off track, but let's right it, right now.

Firstly, to clear your face, dicard all UNNATURAL food products. Anything man-made, complex or otherwise. Sugary cereals, sweets, soda, fast food, processed, preservatives, etc. DUMP IT.

The outer look the skin is part due to stress/feeling and part due to diet. Your outer skin manifests what is in fact UNDER you. What you're eating and feeling brings to the surface what you feel. Ditch stress and feeling bad, and eat clean. Food is meant to be in and out, pushed along every 3 or so hours by more food. Get it? If you're not shytting once a day, you're backed up, get more fiber/bran.

Fact is the American diet is what has done it, coupled with stress and smoking, etc. Facial cleaners are good to rub up dirt/oil, but that's going after the symptom, not the source/problem. It's like wanting to eat crap all day, so you do loads of cardio or jerky diets.

---------------------------

As far as carbs, protein, and fats go...using Eskimos is a bad example.

Carbs ARE necessary. Where is it stated they are not? Just because protein converts by way of what I'd call EMERGENCY avenues or Gluconeogenesis, doesn't mean it should be used like that ALL the time. It's only in the event we go that route b/c we are carb deficient, and the sugar is required by the brain FIRST, then muscles.

Secondly, the sources of carbs are FAR better than for the body than protein, AND provide many more nutrients.

Protein sources...eggs, dairy, meats, poultry, fish, nuts.

Carbs sources...fruit, wheat (whole), veggies, some dairy sources, berries, sprouts, beans, etc.

NOW, by saying carbs aren't needed, but protein is, we assume that life hinges on protein. If you consumed a diet solely of protein, how good or bad would your health be? Well, let's look at they physical state of Atkin's dieters? Not too good. They look gross. Their muscles lack water (no carbs). No much energy, and can't hack it when and if they eat carbs.

On another point if carbs are so not necessary, why does breast milk (you know, that milk that helps you double in size at birth and beyond) only have 5-10% protein?

You may argue that hormone, age, or genetics play a role, but for a baby, what else is there??? Can't chew food. They're not giving him protein shakes from EAS.

----------------------------

I know some guys want to believe that protein is needed, but carbs aren't, but it's not true, as described in my other posts, and by other members here.

Protein can be extracted from foods and it is ok to go after some sources, but our bodies in effect weren't made for that consumption. Compare us to animals. Do we look prepared (other than with tools or weapons) to maime, maul, or kill an animal we'd with our bare hands??

100g is sufficient.

Healthy fats help regulate hormones, cell walls and metabolism.

Our basic function to our bodies is to function to survive, everything else is extraneous. More muscular growth must be begun through first obligating the muscle to grow, THEN over feeding it. Well, if you're working your body at a higher than normal level, it's not muscle building stuff, but energy that must be injected to keep.

But then again, if you enjoy protein, eat all you want, it's your want, just point out that it's not factually sound to assume:

*carbs are not necessary.
*that protein is more important.
*that you can eat exclusively protein and just convert to carbs.



A-Unit

 

[genoa]

As far as carbs, protein, and fats go...using Eskimos is a bad example

Why? they survived for 10,000 years in one of the worlds harshest enviroments. By the way they prefer to be called Inuit.

Carbs ARE necessary. Where is it stated they are not?

The Inuit proved that they aren't required. They've been proving that for the last 10,000 years but all the 'experts' like you have been ignoring them and calling them a bad example.

Well, let's look at they physical state of Atkin's dieters? Not too good. They look gross. Their muscles lack water (no carbs). No much energy, and can't hack it when and if they eat carbs.

Atkins dieters eat carbs. They get all of their carbs from vegetables, nuts berries, fruits etc. I guess you haven't read the Atkins diet book.

Inuit are the ones with no carbs. Did you know that the Inuit hunted whales in their kayaks. They also killed polar bears. Pretty darn good for a race of people who according to your logic "No much energy, and can't hack it". If you were dropped north of the treeline would you be able to "hack it"?

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

I say they're a bad example because eating protein and subsiting on fish is OK. What most push is eating poultry like crazy or eggs or beef.

As far as Atkin's goes, dieters are expected to keep carbs low, and yes, though they eat salad, they eat loaded with dressing, because their main focus is protein/fat, i.e. ketosis.

The debate goes round and round and crops back up. Sugar is up significantly from 50, 100 years, etc, but it's all refined crap.

And to the contrary we subsisted for eons on nuts, berries, veggies, breads, etc, take a look at Meditteranean diets or Asian diets. Oil, wheats, rice, fish, veggies, etc.

Again, your body eat what you want for your goals, but peddling bodybuilding glip left over from earlier decades is poor practice.

Affluent societies, i.e. US, and in previous centuries Europe, noticed that excessive protein consumption led to 33% less kidney function do to overconsumption of protein sources.

Indirectly, the body CAN do what it needs to survive. This isn't optimal for the goal, though, performance, endurance, and size, which is why super high protein intake does not suffice.

I'm not sure, but Jack Lalane has lived as long as he has one a diet of most natural foods and some proteins. What is he 70? 80? Can't say the same about ALOT of bodybuilders, that encounter many problems with their body physically and physiologically.

--------------------------

And apparently, much of what I stated on the body being ABLE to convert protein to enery was lost, since I did make mention it will and does survive, not because it wants to, but because it must. When it's not forced, it operates one way. When it's forced to, it can operate to survive, that's essentially what Atkin's is. They've tested the subjects and found internally, it's much the same as incidents found in patients who are starved.

Of course we all have diff. needs and desires from lifting, so what I might say contradict what others say. That's ok.

If you're defending 'Inuit' as you put it, I cannot claim intimate knowledge of them. So consider me whipped there. However, what is to be questioned is the merit of the information, not whether we can build our egos by putting holes in other's posts.

That aside, the 'Inuit' (is that right? thanks) aren't the main point here, leave that to one of the other posters. The main deals with macro nutrients and the apparent confusion and misunderstanding of nutrition. As far as this 'expert' goes, I claim no such title, but offer my aggressive opinion, the fact I am minoring in nutrition and exercise physiology for personal gains, and have enough performance athletes and friends to validate the information I know of.




A-Unit

 

[uzio]

RawBlood:

you just explained in your own post at the beginning how proteins will be your source of glucose, then you ask me at the bottom how is that possible, are you forgetful ?

You aren't the brightest bulb in refigerator, are you? I said that all your carb needs (assuming absolute no carb intake at all) will be covered by dietary proteins - that is whopping 30 grams. Which works out to ~60 grams of protein per day. That is no different from usual bodybuilder diet. Hardly a 'source' of carbs.

While you were implying (alas that is what I understood) that you need to eat enough protein to make up for lost carbs - that is ludicrus...

A-unit:

It's not a place to explain the whole mechanism of a ketogenic diet (in all of its mutations). If you want to get a hold of this book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0967145600/002-6392476-5738441?v=glance

it expains the mechanisms in detail.

Basicly - absolute minimum for carb intake is 0. Whatever minimum amount of glucose the body needs it will obtain from braking down fats (glycerol part of trigicerides) and protein. That is about 30 grams/day of carbs. Practitioners of keto dieting will tell you that after establishing ketosis just 100 grams of protein/day will suffice to be healthy (rest of calories from fats). However the character of the diet will ensure that you will eat more protein then that.

Two macronutriets that are required in a diet is protein (8 of 20 amino acids that the body cannot produce ittself) and EFAs (omega-3 and omega-6).

Now - hardcore keto dieting will rape you of water-soluble vitamins and of some microelemets (like potassium) - that is why you need to eat some veggies and/or supplements.

Now - If your diet contains required amount of protein and efas, then it does not matter (incertain limits - the quality of those calories also matters) where the rest of your calories come from. Some people will prefer isoclaoric diets, some will go keto or low-carb, some will prefer high carb. That is a matter of preference, not religious zeal. The key is not to fall to the keto/lowfat/vegan/whatever hype and find a diet that works for you.

I personally was on a keto diet for 2 months. I wasn't dizzy, didn't get bad breath or nausea. My brain was sharp as ever. I lost 10 pounds, reached my fat loss goals for this year (about 12% bf) and now I take a break from cutting for 5-6 months. Actually I just might bulk a bit.

ATM I eat 150-200 grams of carbs per day - that is just to maintain athletic performance, because keto _will_ hinder it. In my case about by 20-25%. Unfortunetly the high end of performace brackets (80%+ HR or heavy lifting) is thightly wound around carbs.

And I dare ya to find a study that makes carbs _required_ for survival. The whole Pub-Med is yours.

BTW - ketogenic dieting is used in treatment of epilepsy in children. Kids were kept in ketosis up to three years without any adverse health problems. Go figure.