Nobody gets rich working 9-5 for someone else

[Zimbabwe]

There are definitely jobs where doing any more than what it takes to not get fired won't earn you any direct benefits in terms of pay or control. Also you run the risk of encountering 'the curse of competence' where a reputation for good performance earns you the honour of doing your work, and someone else's work too (The reward for hard work is more work).

You usually only get promoted if a manager-type quits, and they tend to stick around for years at a time. There is also the problem of effective work ending up reducing your pay. If you always do the work quickly, they may reduce your hours, effectively penalizing you for doing a good job. That may also upset coworkers who are sandbagging to milk the organization for pay (a common problem in manufacturing environments where piecework quotas are adjusted by average work rates). How you deal with that is up to you and your sense of ethics, but one option is to do the work to your personal high standard, and then do something that benefits you in the slack time. That way you get the benefit of the 'workout', the supplemental work, and also the pay and coworker approval.

Humans are lazy because billions of years of natural selection rewarded animals that would conserve energy rather than waste it, and so lazyness, up to a point, was an advantage instead of a disadvantage. (The point at which it stops being an advantage is the point where it interferes with eating, mating, or escaping danger.)

@BackInTheGame78
@MatureDJ
@richcohen
@Plinco
@SW15
@mrgoodstuff

 

[Bingo-Player]

There are definitely jobs where doing any more than what it takes to not get fired won't earn you any direct benefits in terms of pay or control. Also you run the risk of encountering 'the curse of competence' where a reputation for good performance earns you the honour of doing your work, and someone else's work too (The reward for hard work is more work).

I have worked for several organisations in the past and can wholeheartedly agree , in the UK theres no real incentive to perform in a 9-5 anymore without getting into "senior management" or the upper echelons of the business your earning power will usually be capped at an absolute max of 40K (GBP)

( this is excluding niche professions like banking and trading )

Of course a lot of companies use the commission model to try and incentivise the workforce but when you boil it down there's no difference to working on a commission model and working for yourself

Next comes the joy of taxation , when you have no control over your income you pay what the government demands you pay , when you generate your own there is ways and means to shield a lot of it from prying eyes

I would never go back to working as a drone now

 

[Plinco]

Unless you are in a STEM profession, a lawyer, or happen to be a really good salesman, you're not going to get rich by working for someone else. With that said, most of those individuals are not going to get rich until they set up their own practices. If you want financial freedom then my advice is to own income producing assets.

 

[MatureDJ]

This is what Marx called the Alienation of the Working Class - i.e., the level/quality of production of the worker being disconnected to his pay. The way this is countered is by giving the worker a quota, which is an objective quantitative measure that the worker must meet to avoid getting fired, or being paid on commission, the latter being of course being the most direct way to avoid this alienation. Professional pride is also a motivation, but this is only applies to workers who are highly skilled or educated.

 

[member160292]

That's why I think everyone should try sales once in their career to see if they can do it. I can't imagine doing a 9-5, you're not going to be busy the whole time and just pretending like you are.

The reason sales is a good start is once you get into higher sales, you will understand how a company is ran so you can solve their business challenges. This knowledge can be use cases if you decide to venture out on your own.

 

[RickTheToad]

There are definitely jobs where doing any more than what it takes to not get fired won't earn you any direct benefits in terms of pay or control. Also you run the risk of encountering 'the curse of competence' where a reputation for good performance earns you the honour of doing your work, and someone else's work too (The reward for hard work is more work).

You usually only get promoted if a manager-type quits, and they tend to stick around for years at a time. There is also the problem of effective work ending up reducing your pay. If you always do the work quickly, they may reduce your hours, effectively penalizing you for doing a good job. That may also upset coworkers who are sandbagging to milk the organization for pay (a common problem in manufacturing environments where piecework quotas are adjusted by average work rates). How you deal with that is up to you and your sense of ethics, but one option is to do the work to your personal high standard, and then do something that benefits you in the slack time. That way you get the benefit of the 'workout', the supplemental work, and also the pay and coworker approval.

Humans are lazy because billions of years of natural selection rewarded animals that would conserve energy rather than waste it, and so lazyness, up to a point, was an advantage instead of a disadvantage. (The point at which it stops being an advantage is the point where it interferes with eating, mating, or escaping danger.)

@BackInTheGame78
@MatureDJ
@richcohen
@Plinco
@SW15
@mrgoodstuff

I earn around $125k a year as a PA, and another 200k year as a landlord. I live off the PA salary and put the rest away for more investments. I do fine and there's nothing special that I am doing. I also live a minimalist lifestyle. However, both are equally stressful, but for different reasons.

 

[Zimbabwe]

This is what Marx called the Alienation of the Working Class - i.e., the level/quality of production of the worker being disconnected to his pay. The way this is countered is by giving the worker a quota, which is an objective quantitative measure that the worker must meet to avoid getting fired, or being paid on commission, the latter being of course being the most direct way to avoid this alienation. Professional pride is also a motivation, but this is only applies to workers who are highly skilled or educated.

There's nothing I hate more than Micromanagers who force their employees to document every piece of work just to fulfil their moronic KPIs. I purposely did nothing at all for months until my manager finally ended my contract at my last job just to spite that smooth brain filipina micromanager.

She would always try to call me on Microsoft teams but I forced her to email everything so I can get it in writing.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

My job is soul crushing and I could write an essay of how full of **** the company is, literally gaslighting their employees etc.

My solution was to just check out mentally. Not only do I do the bare minimum, but I actively do less than is required of me and do all sorts of "time theft" things to see what I can get away with, the answer is: a lot. Companies generally won't fire "bottom performers" because they are desperate to increase retention no matter what. So, fvck 'em.

I have side projects I'm working on that I hope will take off. Trying desperately to get a new job in the same field with better pay and working conditions, with the intent to still develop my side projects more.

 

[jaygreenb]

There are definitely jobs where doing any more than what it takes to not get fired won't earn you any direct benefits in terms of pay or control. Also you run the risk of encountering 'the curse of competence' where a reputation for good performance earns you the honour of doing your work, and someone else's work too (The reward for hard work is more work).

You usually only get promoted if a manager-type quits, and they tend to stick around for years at a time. There is also the problem of effective work ending up reducing your pay. If you always do the work quickly, they may reduce your hours, effectively penalizing you for doing a good job. That may also upset coworkers who are sandbagging to milk the organization for pay (a common problem in manufacturing environments where piecework quotas are adjusted by average work rates). How you deal with that is up to you and your sense of ethics, but one option is to do the work to your personal high standard, and then do something that benefits you in the slack time. That way you get the benefit of the 'workout', the supplemental work, and also the pay and coworker approval.

Humans are lazy because billions of years of natural selection rewarded animals that would conserve energy rather than waste it, and so lazyness, up to a point, was an advantage instead of a disadvantage. (The point at which it stops being an advantage is the point where it interferes with eating, mating, or escaping danger.)

@BackInTheGame78
@MatureDJ
@richcohen
@Plinco
@SW15
@mrgoodstuff

Just an observation from what I have seen. You can get rich from employment if you have discipline, consistency and aggressively invest. The biggest problem I see is as income increase lifestyle costs do as well and it is gradual. People are more likely to take on debt when they know they have a reliable high paying income coming in to service it. They want to portray an image above what their earnings are. Especially in "prestige" positions like Doctor and lawyer. That is how you get people still living check to check making 200k plus

On the business owner side, your income is far more volatile and there a lot more variables and risks that can carry major expense with them. If you are a good operator, you know you have to live well below your means to make sure you have the capital to weather any storm. It also puts you in a different mindset of owning assets that produce cashflow.

 

[Veréngárda]

If laziness is a genetic advantage then paint me brown and call me Khan Noonian Singh because it's time for me to inherit the world..
.. tomorrow..

 

[EyeBRollin]

I earn around $125k a year as a PA, and another 200k year as a landlord. I live off the PA salary and put the rest away for more investments. I do fine and there's nothing special that I am doing. I also live a minimalist lifestyle. However, both are equally stressful, but for different reasons.

Nice work! When and how did you buy your first few properties?

 

[Bingo-Player]

On the business owner side, your income is far more volatile and there a lot more variables and risks that can carry major expense with them. If you are a good operator, you know you have to live well below your means to make sure you have the capital to weather any storm. It also puts you in a different mindset of owning assets that produce cashflow.

Not if you know what you are doing

The same can be said for the 9-5 at any stage the company can turn around and say " thanks , but were done"

You are persistently at the mercy of some retarded line manager and corporate HR structure

When your running your own hustle or business you don't tend to waste so much money on consumer cr@p because you can actually see it for what it is

 

[Stoic]

I think the attitudes regarding work are all wrong here.

Hard working, competent people are almost universally rewarded in the market place.

It's simple economics. I previously worked for a company and now have my own business.

I pay top dollar for hard working, competent people. I'd be a fool not to. I know if I don't they will get poached by other other companies. Hard working, competent employees increase my bottom line and in turn are worth being paid more.

And I know what its like to be an employee too. Yes, there are politics and games in play. I'm not naive. But, I also know that working a little harder than those around you and putting out good work products/services gets you noticed by others.

Interesting stat I read awhile back in a book called Why Men Earn More. Those employees that work 10% more hours- (say 44 hour week versus someone who works 40 hours a week) does not make 10% more than their co-workers, they make nearly 50% more in compensation. Why is that? Its because these employees over the course of a year have worked over 200 hours more than their peers. They have 200 hours of additional experience and knowledge that their peer does not have. They have produced more than their co-workers and are also more accessible for additional assignments and visibility then their co-workers who are nowhere to be found.

Best of luck.

 

[jaygreenb]

Not if you know what you are doing

The same can be said for the 9-5 at any stage the company can turn around and say " thanks , but were done"

You are persistently at the mercy of some retarded line manager and corporate HR structure

When your running your own hustle or business you don't tend to waste so much money on consumer cr@p because you can actually see it for what it is

Yeah, I don't think you really know what you are talking about. You can be a great owner/operator and that will make you more likely do well over the long term. There are just a number of variables/risks you do not have control over when you are dealing with a lot of employees, products and clients. If you are running a legit business doing a million+ revenue a year, major issues will happen at some point, just the cost of doing business. You will get sued at some point, have workplace injuries, supply issues, regulatory changes etc that you will never be able to completely mitigate or be prepared for. The best way to be able to handle these is typically have the capital to weather the storm.

That being said, I am very pro owning a business over being an employee. There are just a lot of additional risks and variables, Income often widely varies year to year for a number reasons. If you have a lot of debt obligations, a bad year in net income can put you out of business.

 

[MatureDJ]

My solution was to just check out mentally. Not only do I do the bare minimum, but I actively do less than is required of me and do all sorts of "time theft" things to see what I can get away with, the answer is: a lot. Companies generally won't fire "bottom performers" because they are desperate to increase retention no matter what. So, fvck 'em.

Quiet quitting: why doing the bare minimum at work has gone global

The meaninglessness of modern work – and the pandemic – has led many to question their approach to their jobs

www.theguardian.com

 

[MatureDJ]

Those employees that work 10% more hours- (say 44 hour week versus someone who works 40 hours a week) does not make 10% more than their co-workers, they make nearly 50% more in compensation. Why is that? Its because these employees over the course of a year have worked over 200 hours more than their peers. They have 200 hours of additional experience and knowledge that their peer does not have. They have produced more than their co-workers and are also more accessible for additional assignments and visibility then their co-workers who are nowhere to be found.

Best of luck.

You sound like an IBM suit trying to gauge the value of software by the K-LOCs.

Source lines of code - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[RickTheToad]

Nice work! When and how did you buy your first few properties?

FHA and VALoans. I also started in not so great areas. Fixed them up, flipped them until I got enough funds to buy in better areas. In Bridgeport and Stamford, it's block by block. Well, mostly Bridgeport now, not Stamford. Nearly anything in Stamford is pricey and hard to make the numbers work..

 

[Stoic]

You sound like an IBM suit trying to gauge the value of software by the K-LOCs.

Source lines of code - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It doesn’t matter what I sound like. What matters what I’m saying is either true or it’s not true. I’m not going too far out on a limb to say if you put in just slightly more effort than your peers, you will usually come out way ahead.

 

[SargeMaximus]

Live way below your means and invest wisely and you absolutely can become wealthy on a regular job

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Live way below your means and invest wisely and you absolutely can become wealthy on a regular job

This assumes you are still making a decent wage/salary and is never really accounted for in financial advice in general. The bottom line is that wages are the common denominator, assuming you're even halfway smart with your spending/lifestyle.

If you make <$20 an hour, you're pretty much fvcked even if you split the rent with 4 other people and sell your car. Even $20/hr+ isn't shvt in 2022, you need to be making at least $50-60k /yr to be able to save any substantial amount of money and build wealth (assuming you are living below your means).