Nice

[zekko]

And how would a random girl you don't know

If you read the original post, I noted that I did know the girl.

You chose a very poor example to talk about Being Nice in the context of dating.

I deliberately chose an extreme example. As I stated, I wanted to see how far some guys will take some of this stuff. I probably should have posted this in the General Discussion area, there are some more extreme views over there.

Just so that we're all on the same page, this is concept of "Nice Guy" we're referring to. What you want to be is a Good Guy (or Good Man.)

This is the real point of my post. I have read a number of guys (mainly on the general forum) who seem to think that if you are not walking around acting like an @sshole 24 hours a day, then you will not get any women. Clearly they are interpreting "nice guy" as "good man" - and those are pretty close to the actual meaning of those terms in the real world. I think it is a big problem for the pickup community to use the term "nice" when they really mean "supplicating".

So I was wondering just how many guys here truly believe that you cannot be positive contributers to society if you want to attract women (because that is not being a "bad boy").

By the way, vato, I had never seen the "Good Man" article that you linked to (which is a SoSuave article by the way). It is a very rare article in that it states that there are cases where "Nice guys finish first", depending on what kind of nice guy you're talking about. Most of what you read here on the forum is that any sniff of "niceness" kills attraction. The problem is there is the pickup definition of "nice", and there is the real world definition.

 

[The_411]

Zekko,

Nice is a bad word to describe a man and guys souldn't use it. Nice implies softness, sensitivity, fragility.

You don't have to be a douchebag 24/7 or even at all to get women. You just need to be anything but nice.

A woman describing a man as nice is like her describing her comforter, or her shoes. She needs them for comfort but she's not gonna do her comforter or her shoes.

A woman wants a man to show he's a man. She's attracted to men not nice guys. Attraction is developed by men who create tension and nice guys don't create tension.

The key is being humorous and calling a woman on her crap. That's not being a douchebag it's jsut being entertaining. You don't have to rip a girl to shreds, you just let her know hey I'm funny and I'm not a supplicant like most guys, I'm treating you like anyone else.

Too many guys supplicate (myself included) becuase we get caught up in some contrivied concept that we need to treat everyone equally. Equal means balance and balance is boring. I'm not suggesting you treat women badly, but rather you don't give them attention unless they merit attention.

Things are off kilter because women are treated to well without even having to behave well. Guys buy them drinks and the girl hasn't even done anything to earn a drink. If you make a girl work for your attention, money, etc she will respect you, if you don't she'll take advantage.

 

[vatoloco]

Just so that we're all on the same page, this is concept of "Nice Guy" we're referring to. What you want to be is a Good Guy (or Good Man.)

This is the real point of my post. I have read a number of guys (mainly on the general forum) who seem to think that if you are not walking around acting like an @sshole 24 hours a day, then you will not get any women.

It's a natural reaction, albeit not very smart one. "Hmm, I'm not getting good results with women by being a Nice Guy. Let's be an Asshole and see how that works!"

Clearly they are interpreting "nice guy" as "good man" - and those are pretty close to the actual meaning of those terms in the real world. I think it is a big problem for the pickup community to use the term "nice" when they really mean "supplicating".

The word has been already attained such a connotation so you just gotta roll with the punches.

So I was wondering just how many guys here truly believe that you cannot be positive contributers to society if you want to attract women (because that is not being a "bad boy").

Well, I can tell you that that in my case, being a Good Man has actually helped me in the search for a Good Woman. Poisonous Women (especially the ones with low self-esteem) are particularly drawn towards Bad Boys so it weeds them out.

By the way, vato, I had never seen the "Good Man" article that you linked to (which is a SoSuave article by the way). It is a very rare article in that it states that there are cases where "Nice guys finish first", depending on what kind of nice guy you're talking about. Most of what you read here on the forum is that any sniff of "niceness" kills attraction. The problem is there is the pickup definition of "nice", and there is the real world definition.

It is kind of confusing. But like I said, the word "Nice" has already been corrupted.

 

[zekko]

Nice is a bad word to describe a man and guys souldn't use it. Nice implies softness, sensitivity, fragility.

You don't have to be a douchebag 24/7 or even at all to get women. You just need to be anything but nice.

I actually disagree that nice means "softness, sensitivity, fragility", except perhaps in pickup circles. I've heard a lot of women describe guys that they were clearly into as nice - "What's he like?" "Oh, he's so nice". I don't think they have the same hangups with the word as some guys do.

But like vatoloco said, the work is already "corrupted", so it doesn't really matter.

 

[Jitterbug]

I've heard a lot of women describe guys that they were clearly into as nice - "What's he like?" "Oh, he's so nice". I don't think they have the same hangups with the word as some guys do.

Who are they, older women?

Young women use "nice" to refer to the guys they'd like to hang out with but don't want to fvck. They have no conscious contempt for those guys, but nookie is never an option.

 

[zekko]

Who are they, older women?

No, women around your age. Some younger, some a little older.

Young women use "nice" to refer to the guys they'd like to hang out with but don't want to fvck.

They were definitely fvcking them, and highly interested.

I've seen this repeatedly. Maybe the women in Australia talk differently than the women in the Midwest US. Maybe it's an urban vs. rural thing. But the women I encounter do not view the word "nice" in any negative way that I've ever seen. When a girl finds a new guy she's hot for, she usually tells everyone that she's met a nice guy.

I remember reading a theory here that if a girl describes a man as a "nice guy", that's a good thing. But if she says to you "You're a nice guy", that's a bad thing. Maybe because it's a setup for rejection, I suppose.

 

[FairShake]

Every girl I've ever had sex with has, at some point, said I'm sweet/nice/a gentleman. Every single one, even the one nighters. And we're talking in the low dozens so it's not one or two.

But I usually date girls who want that kind of guy.

 

[FairShake]

Double post. I will make the most of this opportunity.

As someone with more than a couple female friends I can say from experience most of them think their boyfriends or fvckbuddys are nice in the BEGINNING. Most relationships I've personally witnessed included an attentive guy in the beginning and an azzhole in the end. And I think that's where those of us who are a bit on the needy side fail to understand. We see an azzhole with a girl head over heels with him but we haven't seen the whole story. Once a girl falls in love so many of them really DO lose logic. They remember the old guy and think he may come back or enjoy the moments when the come.

And in that the azzhole game has it's place. Sometimes you need it to keep a girl on her toes. But rarely.

 

[guru1000]

Remember, the labels "nice guy" and "bad boy" have little to do with ostensible acts of "niceness." Rather the underlying motivation, which is present within the individual at the moment in question, is what defines the act. Is the act committed acquiescently from a compromised frame or out of supplication -- or is the committal based solely from a psychological position of strength?

Donald Trump donated 5 million to a local charity. That was a hell of a nice act, but did his "niceness" prompt that act, or was there a greater motivation, such as the wealth he can thereafter accumulate from the "honorable" element conveniently added into people's perception of his reputation: "Gamble with Trump, he is a fair guy." Which motivation does Trump act from?

To solely identity an act as anti-DJ, the motivations that prompt the act MUST derive from a position of need, not calculation. This is the trick in the DJ's arsenal: Commit nice acts, not out of need, but though calculated and purposeful motivations based on and categorically directed by a confident frame, or needless self-gain.

 

[st_99]

Is the act committed acquiescently from a compromised frame or out of supplication -- or is the committal based solely from a psychological position of strength?

You're right. The proverbial "frame" really is everything. As long as you are in command of it, niceness and meanness take on new meanings.