Nice Guys Who Win-Is Being a Nice Guy Underrated Here?

[Micheal Moon]

I just wanted to get an idea about this. I say this mainly because over the last year I've seen 3 relativley attractive girls hookup with guys you would not consider "alpha".

In the first case, my coworker, who I used to have a thing with hooked up with a guy she met through a friend on facebook. Within the first month he buys her a $500 dollar digital camera for Christmas (last year) and a hand held video game player. I joked about how she was using him for gifts and she laughed. Also, she didn't take him seriously at first. They have now been dating for a about a year now and he's moved in with her.

Now you might say this girl is still with this guy for gifts but the guy has lost his job and she is still with him.

Just recently a couple just hooked up at my work, and it all started when he brought medicine for when she was sick. Now they are dating, and at first she was unsure like,"Well he a nice guy but....." but again they have hooked up.


Also the last case, is a good looking girl, in my work, who has hooked up with a guy who many would describe as below average in looks and quite "nice" guy who many would describe as quite nerdy.

So what is actually happening here? These guys are breaking some cardinal rules of buying gifts, not really creating attraction and making the girl work for it.

Is being "nice" a great quality for some girls? Because I've tried that in the past and it hasnt worked. Its actually backfired.

Could it be that these girls just find these guys appealing for other reasons? Or is it that these find their niceness engaging, different, and cute compared to other guys out there?

Or are these cases just anomalies?

 

[squirrels]

Your typical nice-guy will end up in a typical nice-guy relationship, eventually.

Is that what YOU'RE after?

Average "chumps" have been dating women and getting married long before SoSuave.

Stop worrying about proving that the "alpha-male" way is better and just live it.

 

[edger]

I just wanted to get an idea about this. I say this mainly because over the last year I've seen 3 relativley attractive girls hookup with guys you would not consider "alpha".

In the first case, my coworker, who I used to have a thing with hooked up with a guy she met through a friend on facebook. Within the first month he buys her a $500 dollar digital camera for Christmas (last year) and a hand held video game player. I joked about how she was using him for gifts and she laughed. Also, she didn't take him seriously at first. They have now been dating for a about a year now and he's moved in with her.

Now you might say this girl is still with this guy for gifts but the guy has lost his job and she is still with him.

Just recently a couple just hooked up at my work, and it all started when he brought medicine for when she was sick. Now they are dating, and at first she was unsure like,"Well he a nice guy but....." but again they have hooked up.


Also the last case, is a good looking girl, in my work, who has hooked up with a guy who many would describe as below average in looks and quite "nice" guy who many would describe as quite nerdy.

So what is actually happening here? These guys are breaking some cardinal rules of buying gifts, not really creating attraction and making the girl work for it.

Is being "nice" a great quality for some girls? Because I've tried that in the past and it hasnt worked. Its actually backfired.

Could it be that these girls just find these guys appealing for other reasons? Or is it that these find their niceness engaging, different, and cute compared to other guys out there?

Or are these cases just anomalies?

Welcome to the real world. I witness what you witness, constantly. Hot, attractive women hooking up with guys who don't have much game(if any) and below avg. looks. I used to think what I read here was the absolute truth, until I began seeing the incongruiencies out there. That's why I say, you're going to hear this, that, and that on SoSuave, but at the end, LET YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE BE YOUR GUIDE with women. I've learned that, your own experiences is all you can rely on.

And like Jophil even say's, and I love to quote him on this: "Sometimes it's all just a random f*ckin' experiment."

 

[STR8UP]

What women "want" and what they will "accept" are often two different things.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

What women "want" and what they will "accept" are often two different things.

And how exactly are men any different?

 

[jophil28]

What women "want" and what they will "accept" are often two different things.

VERY TRUE and I have know countless examples of women who do this. You might sneer at them and call this "settling", as if they could do better but are just too needy or too lazy to aim higher, however women frequently marry men who are "good enough" for their specifications....and that is why those beloved theories, posing as fact, about women being driven by a bio imperative to always seek "the best genes" in a mate are speculative, unsupportable nonsense promoted by pseudo scientists..Women appear ( to me )
to balance and weigh up a CLUSTER of a man's qualities. THeir stupid "laundry lists" are a crude attempt to formalise these as requirements. His "genes" are but one factor in her selection process, and this factor never appears on their 'list' except in indirect ways " He must be tall... "
What about those women who are career gals who marry, and never even consider having children? There also woman who are financially successful in their own right, and do not need, or seek, "provisioning" in a material sense. These women have no use for a man's " good genes" except in very indirect and obscure ways.

Ultimately we are talking about the intricacies and ambiguity of INDIVIDUAL human behavior which cannot be formularised or formalised in the way that physical science treats energy and matter .

 

[slaog]

(Lets simplify)
There are mainly 2 types of nice guys. Type 1 is AFC nice. Type 2 is DJ nice.


AFC nice usually involves AFC's trying to make women like them by buying them things. Basically they try bribe the women into liking them. The harder they try to make women like them in this way the more turned off the women become.


DJ nice involves doing nice things for the women and not worrying about getting anything back. DJ's don't try and buy things to be liked because they like themselves. DJ's are nice because thats their personality. They really are nice.

 

[SXS]

If a woman ****s the bad boy, she is a slut who likes to be mistreated...
If she stay with the nice guy, they are lazy to look for better guys, and are merely accepting "what they can have"...
If she stays with the guy who buys her gifts, she is a gold digger(and you are sure she is ****ing someone aside, right ?)

Maybe women should start coming here and learn from you guys what kind of man they should want to ****.

 

[amoka]

The misconception here is that being an "alpha" makes you insensitive and uncaring. What is wrong with a man bringing medicine to a woman?... does that make you a chump? Like someone said, you can learn all the "DJ materials" here as much as you want but in the very end, you're on your own. Do what is right.... and you're not robots.

 

[Ol'BlueEyes]

Welcome to the real world. I witness what you witness, constantly. Hot, attractive women hooking up with guys who don't have much game(if any) and below avg. looks. I used to think what I read here was the absolute truth, until I began seeing the incongruiencies out there. That's why I say, you're going to hear this, that, and that on SoSuave, but at the end, LET YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE BE YOUR GUIDE with women. I've learned that, your own experiences is all you can rely on.

In a lot of cases the only advantage these guys have are the cojones (and good timing) to ask out the hotties.

 

[SAYNO]

I just wanted to get an idea about this. I say this mainly because over the last year I've seen 3 relativley attractive girls hookup with guys you would not consider "alpha".

In the first case, my coworker, who I used to have a thing with hooked up with a guy she met through a friend on facebook. Within the first month he buys her a $500 dollar digital camera for Christmas (last year) and a hand held video game player. I joked about how she was using him for gifts and she laughed. Also, she didn't take him seriously at first. They have now been dating for a about a year now and he's moved in with her.

Now you might say this girl is still with this guy for gifts but the guy has lost his job and she is still with him.

Just recently a couple just hooked up at my work, and it all started when he brought medicine for when she was sick. Now they are dating, and at first she was unsure like,"Well he a nice guy but....." but again they have hooked up.


Also the last case, is a good looking girl, in my work, who has hooked up with a guy who many would describe as below average in looks and quite "nice" guy who many would describe as quite nerdy.

So what is actually happening here? These guys are breaking some cardinal rules of buying gifts, not really creating attraction and making the girl work for it.

Is being "nice" a great quality for some girls? Because I've tried that in the past and it hasnt worked. Its actually backfired.

Could it be that these girls just find these guys appealing for other reasons? Or is it that these find their niceness engaging, different, and cute compared to other guys out there?

Or are these cases just anomalies?

Hmm..

What ages are we talking about here? If she's older she may be tired of ****ing badboys (thugs) etc

Also, I have a co-worker who is ugly, deformed-even (he's blind in one eye)

But his wife is about a 9 on the scale, I was really surprized, when I saw her also they just had a baby.

So, you know it happens, but persoanlly I have never seen an exceptionally beautiful women "stay" with an average guy.

It almost always ends up bad for the guy (esp married ones) with divorce and child support etc.

 

[jophil28]

So, you know it happens, but persoanlly I have never seen an exceptionally beautiful women "stay" with an average guy.

It would be interesting to find out why she fell for him in the first place,and why she eventually ejected. I guess that we will never know. I have tried asking a few women these questions in regard to their failed relationships with "average" guys. The answers that I got were vague gibberish. Those women essentially had no clue why they left the guy. They said shyte like, " He was abusive" (and other standard femaile victim statements)

WE frequently say here that women do not know what they want. It seems that they also do not know why they do NOT want it when they do not want it anymore.

 

[Jitterbug]

I've seen guys whom people here would definitely call AFCs with very hot GFs. I've pointed this out to a friend of mine who's a PUA community guy to prove to him that the "AFCs don't get laid" myth is false.

However, I also tell my PUA friend this: "Yes I do want to **** his {the AFC's} girl, but I don't want to be him". Important difference. I do not envy those guys at all.

Just because someone else has something I want, it doesn't mean that I must thrive to be like him. There are many ways to skin a pvssy.

Oh btw, I don't think that just because some guy has a hot GF, it means that he "wins". We know nothing behind the scene. What if she's cheating on him? What if she's a BPD who's sucking his soul away? What if she's making him wait? What exactly is the Nice Guy winning at?

 

[Tazman]

I've seen pictures of women on this site who guys claimed were "hot", which I didn't agree with. I bet if I saw these people they'd appear closer in attractiveness than you'd think, it's all a matter of opinion.

Most times I see a couple who aren't equally attractive it appears to be a trade off for something else that one finds valuable. I tend to think as heterosexual guys we overrate the women we see with other guys because we simply aren't as interested in the way other guys look.

Being AFC doesn't mean you won't get women, hell I think a lot of us on this site are a testament to that.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Pulled from The Self-Righteous AFC

You see, when an AFC clings to the mental schemas that make up an AFC mindset it requires a constant need for affirmation and reinforcement, particularly in light of their glaring lack of verifiable success with women while clinging to, and behaving in accordance with the mindset. I forget who's signature it was, but to put it best, AFCs are a bunch of crabs in a barrel - once one get to the top to climb out another drags him back in. The AFC needs other AFCs to affirm his blatantly obvious lack of success. He needs other AFCs to tell him, "don't worry just be yourself" or "she's just not a quality woman because she can't see how great a guy you are."

So when an AFC finally does get a second date and then finally does get laid it becomes the ultimate validation for his mindset. "See, you just have to be a nice guy and the right ONE really does come along." This is when the self-righteous phase begins and he can begin telling his DJ/PUA friends that he's "getting some" now without all the Positive Masculinity claptrap. In actuality he rationalizes away all of the conditions that lead up to him getting the girlfriend and the fundamental flaw that he's settling for a woman "who'd fukk him", but this doesn't stop him from claiming a moral highground. His long wait is over and he's finally hit paydirt.

AFC's get laid, get married, have kids, get divorced, cheat, get cheated on, etc. they're still AFCs.

 

[Mr. Me]

at first she was unsure...

Love starts with some infatuation. When the fire of infatuation isn't there or isn't all that hot to start with, the best it gets is a little heat.

What you're describing are women who are with a guy in whom they have some interest, some affection, some feeling of love perhaps, but it's not their dream heart throb. These women aren't exhibiting any crazy in love behaviors for their men, am I right? He's draped all over her instead of her draping herself over him. He caters to her, but she doesn't cater much to him. She's not always checking her texts to see if he's messaged her. She orders him around, maybe? That sort of thing.

In that case, it's the guys that are settling. They're settling for women who have a moderate love for them. One day, she'll cheat or leave him or sex will become infrequent or she'll become a nagger or something... something's got to give. It's that or she wants someone she can control.

Like sampspade pointed out, there are unknown factors. My cousin is married to the most AFC guy you'd ever meet. The guy asked her for permission to go to the car to retrieve a photo album to show during a visit to a relative. He sits in the corner, quietly, just smiling while the women are talking. He was sweeping the floor once when his toddler daughter said to him, "You missed a spot!" - wonder where the daughter learned to speak to him like that. Why is my cousin married to him? Her dad cheated on her mom and she vowed that she would marry a guy that wouldn't hurt her like her dad hurt her mom. Someone she can control.

I dated a woman once who was previously married for one year and got herself divorced. She said that the day she got married she knew he wasn't the right one. Women will marry guys they don't really love. Why? She said it was because she was afraid nothing better was going to come her way.

Another one is tired of living with her folks and hasn't any options and sees the guy as her ticket out. Another one feels she wants to settle down and needs to find someone who offers stability and predictability. And so on.

This is the kind of stuff that happens when the chemistry just really isn't there.

 

[Warrior74]

Could it be that these girls just find these guys appealing for other reasons? Or is it that these find their niceness engaging, different, and cute compared to other guys out there?

Or are these cases just anomalies?

This is the norm man. two people who fully respect and love each other and stay that way for 30+ years is the fairytale. That's the dream man. The truth is way harsher. These women are taking what they can get while they can get it. They tried to lock down players, and hustlers and bikers rich guys and whatever alpha males they could and they found a nice guy beta who isn't too bad that they could stand looking at and ****ing for the rest of their lives because of the benifits. That's the norm. That's why its called settling down, not settling up! They settle for a situation they can control.

 

[SXS]

So, you know it happens, but persoanlly I have never seen an exceptionally beautiful women "stay" with an average guy.

Honestly they dont have a choice. 90% of the guys are average.

 

[ketostix]

Honestly they dont have a choice. 90% of the guys are average.

That's probably true, probably at least 75% of guys are average or below and less than 25% are above average. However, I would say probably even more women are below average, what with their feminist attitudes and high percentage of them overweight still getting pursued. So I wouldn't say an attractive girl would have less choice.

 

[wait_out]

I think you guys care too much about categorizing other people.

The mechanism of attraction is extremely, extremely shallow. It's only the level of competition that exists -- naturally -- that's driven such complex analyses out of communities like these.

The entire world does not exist on a linear continuum of your conception of AFC --> PUA. A 'seduction community' is not the key to understanding the universe and every relation between males and females since the Big Bang. Yeah, Alpha males, blah blah blah, but at the end of the day humans are still not dogs are they? FFS.

Maybe some girls are perceptive and intelligent enough to understand that some guys are terrible at courtship but good at relationships. Yes there still has to be attraction even if he is a dating klutz. Here is an interesting article: http://www.spectacle.org/995/love.html

Tolstoy pointed out in "Family Happiness" and many others have also perceived that there is a serious distinction between being in love and loving. Being in love is the first rush of strong emotion when the game is about to begun. At this point the only cooperation desired from the other is to be there. Being in love is effectively a relationship you have with yourself that is catalyzed by the presence, frequently dimly perceived, of another. It is possible, even quite likely, that you will fall in love with little or no knowledge of the other. When the smoke clears, and the issues become living together, finding a middle ground, mediating career interests and geographical issues, marriage, and children, the game has begun. At this point you begin to discover if the other is a cooperator or a defector. Love is the stage that can only be based on a series of cooperations significant enough to inspire trust.

Kind of a different view of what the game is, right? If these "AFC" guys are hooking up with hot women who are 'cooperators' (good, loyal women) and not 'defectors' (manipulators, users, and unfaithful), they're really not that AFC, are they? I know lots of guys who want to build families and careers, not chase pvssy.

Why do the guys lead women on and subsequently abandon them? Why do girls trap guys into relationships that become unlivable situations? Because there are lots of selfish, unethical people who don't really care about what they do to other people out there. And lots of stupid people fall into that, men and women. Is it surprising so many relationships fail?

Obviously not putting yourself in a position of vulnerability is the easiest way to protect yourself. I got burned badly despite the fact that my girl was a cooperator -- good intentions, even, are no guarantee.

I do agree that there's probably a lot of dysfunctional dynamics in some of these relationships, but why categorize all of them? Go out and have fun instead of hating on your AFC friends.

And seriously, a lot of those women who come off as "exceptionally beautiful" and later leave the guy -- it's because they are still in the courtship and "in love with herself" phase and primping to attract guys. Those hot chicks in relationships, in phase 2, turn into the MILFs you see down at the supermarket running late for some stupid activity for their kids dressed in sweatpants with a Toyota Civic out front. They don't care so much about their appearance because their priorities have changed.

Life is full of anomalies. I say wish them luck and concentrate on enjoying yourself instead. Their choices are not supposed to influence your own.