Nice Guys Exposed

[Cleric]

Almost all of these "nice" guys come from families with very strict, controlling parents. The case is most brutal when the controlling force is the mother. The man in this case is reduced to a weak, feminized creature robbed of his self esteem, confidence and masculinity. A perfect example of which would be Raymon, from 'Everybody Loves Raymon'. And by the way the sad thing about that show is that he's not acting!

Also an important note here is that these guys are not really "nice". They are merely weak. They are not nice because they are incapable of not being nice. All things in the world are defined and are given meaning by their opposite. Where an opposite lacks, the subject loses all context and can no longer be defined. Nice is therefore not the appropriate word here since the opposite tendancy does not exist in these people.

Now here is an interesting fact. If you have a "nice" friend and you observe him around women you'll actually notice that he's attracted to women who usually treat him very badly. The ****ier and b*chier the woman the greater the attraction. This is not the case with all but certainly with the most. And the reason is that these pethatic creatures are still seeking in these women the affection they never really got from their own mothers. And here's another interesting psychological fact. We humans ar extremely social creatures. one of the most social creatures on earth. Our need for intimacy is so great that when we have trouble getting it we will settle for negative contact. Being put down and treated badly by women is really a sort of a masochistic home-comming for these men. Their social needs are somewhat met and a sense of satisfaction is created in them that has roots in their psychological past.

F*cked up huh?

 

[Cleric]

But I didn't write the above post in order to put people down. No matter how "nice" and weak a guy, there is still hope. Our reality is a reflection of our thoughts and our thoughts are the only things we have complete control over. Even the most pethatic guys can become the most confident and masculine heros all women crave.

How do I know all this? Well it's because I used to be one of these "nice" guys. And if one guy can turn his life around 180 degrees so can another. It's a fact that our dominating thoughts gel in our minds and eventually become our reality. So as I start to realise that this thread now really belongs in the tips forum I'm going to suggest to you that by simply changing your thoughts around and seeing yourself as whatever the hell it is you want to be you can slowly BUT SURELY change your very reality and step into the new you that will be every bit as real as reality itself.

LIFE IS A SELF FULFILLING PROPHECY.

Once you realize the full meaning of the above statement then the very laws of the universe seem to bow down before you because THEN, your possibilities with women will be reduced only by the limits of your imagination.

Good luck
Cleric

 

[Desdinova]

Excellent post, Cleric!

Almost all of these "nice" guys come from families with very strict, controlling parents. The case is most brutal when the controlling force is the mother. The man in this case is reduced to a weak, feminized creature robbed of his self esteem, confidence and masculinity.

This was me. Looking back on my childhood, I behaved very much like a little girl. I would cry whenever a voice was raised, I'd cry if I was in trouble for anything. What also didn't help me was that my mother was backed by a religious cult who encouraged members to beat their children. This combined with being beat up in school, I developed PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder).

PTSD isn't fun to have. I would flinch or duck whenever anyone near me raised their hand. Normally they'd raised their hand to scratch the back of their head or something, and then I'd flinch or duck. Then the person would ask me, "What? Did you think I was going to hit you?" How the fvck are you supposed to answer something like that (especially if you didn't know what your problem was)?

I must say that I've come a long way since those days. I've dealt with most of my inner demons, the issues with being physically abused as a child, as well as the issues of being raised in a cult.

I no longer see myself as my parents' child. I see myself as an independant human being who happens to be related to my parents. I have almost nothing in common with them. The only traits I really posess of theirs are my looks. If my parents weren't related to me, I would cut them out of my life. I dislike their personalities, and they're not very nice people.

I wasn't happy with myself as a person when I was younger. I must say I'm happy with who I am now. I've had to completely re-design my personality, my values, my habits, and my attitude. It was a lot of hard work, but it was all worth it. Self-improvement cannot have a value put on it. It's invaluable, and it's very rewarding.

 

[Cleric]

I'm glad you've managed to turn it all around. Rebelling against parents and authority in general seems to be a phase most teenagers go through. Which is an excellent thing but some of us never seem to find the courage at first and seem to struggle with it sometimes well into adulthood. And even then it can come out in destructive ways.

Just imagine though. You've managed to deal with an obsticle in life most guys would break under. How much stronger than the rest do you feel now? Sometimes dealing with big trouble in life leaves you so powerful and so much wiser it's almost a blessing in disguise.

All the best

 

[Desdinova]

Rebelling against parents and authority in general seems to be a phase most teenagers go through. Which is an excellent thing but some of us never seem to find the courage at first and seem to struggle with it sometimes well into adulthood.

I hardly rebelled against my parents when I was a teenager. I was too damn afraid of them. My mother gives credit to her cult for the good job she did raising me. I find that really funny because damn near everything she taught me has been replaced with my own values, morals, habit, etc, etc. I molded myself into the person I am today.

I didn't rebel until I was 19 years old and had my first LTR. My father was trying to control where and when I went out even though I was paying rent. I wanted to get the hell out and I didn't care if life ended up kicking me in the face. It had to be better than living under someone else's control. I moved out when I was 20 and didn't speak to my father for 2 years. That had to be the best thing I ever did for myself.

Sometimes dealing with big trouble in life leaves you so powerful and so much wiser it's almost a blessing in disguise.

I've had people who were in similar situations as myself say that they wouldn't have it any other way or they wouldn't have become the person that they are now. Honestly, even though I'm very happy with myself now, I envy those who had a more normal childhood than I did.

Much of my childhood was wasted. Christmas, birthdays, and every other fun holiday under the sun was taken away from me when I was very young. I was recognized as the religious kid in school because I couldn't partake in anything to do with the holidays. I was to abandon my classmates whenever anything patriotic was going on in the classroom. Hell, I even got pulled out of Sex Ed classes. I couldn't phone any girlfriend I tried to have because I'd be grounded. The end resuld of all this? I was depressed and suicidal.

It was a 5hitty route to take to learn how to value life. I had to re-learn everything, and I still struggle with some things such as celebrating Christmas and my social skills. However, things continue to get better, and I'm learning all the things I should've learned when I was a child.

 

[comic_relief]

Excellent post

I actually read a post that was in discussion Wierd *shivers*

 

[frivolousz21]

yea.

I had an abusive father..

and not a good mom for most of my life.

I was raised by my grandma and grandpa

and my grandpa was a ****ing **** too.

but my grandma was special..one of those people.

I had pretty much all freedoms by age 16.

and I was irresponsible, I had to pay for my own college, because my mom married weathly ****ing piece of **** guy, and I had to fall on my face many times because I had no father figure.

but I have to say...Id still rather have my life..than soemone with strick ass parents who make there children suffer from neglect while they are there for every move.

pretty ****ing sad

 

[LikerOfWomen]

Your post is definitely totally wrong about some nice guys.

I grew up in a very functional family with parents who were both very nice and attentive.

I'm trying to get over a very serious case of nice guy syndrome, but you don't have the cause right at all. I think mine (and I'm sure this is the case for many other guys) is caused by our culture, which conditioned me to think that being nice is the way to impress girls. That's all over the television, it's all female relatives say, and then women are publicly complaining about men it's usually about how they're not nice. There's so much crap out there about virtuous formal fifties-sitcom courtship, and it leaves a lot of guys with the impression that being nice to women will attract them. It's so ingrained that when they see that it's failing again and again, they often don't even question the method, and just assume something's wrong with them.

I had this problem a lot until recently. I used to actually try to be nice to girls. I'm intelligent and can be very ****y/funny, but I wasn't even trying to--I was trying to be nice, because I didn't know any better. I was actually less c&f with girls I was interested in than with the rest! It was all about my lack of education about what causes attraction in women. It was like our culture had pulled a screen over my eyes and I just couldn't see it, until I found this site and a few others and started studying it.

And "nice guys" aren't losers. They can be successful in all other sorts of ways... they just haven't had the blinders taken off yet when it comes to women. It's amazing... I kick myself for not realizing all this sooner. I can't believe I went so long believing something so false.

 

[ScrewIt]

great point cleric, although not all nice guys can be attributed to this.

This may explain why i was a nice guy before i found this board.

My dad is an idiot. He works 12 hrs a day and when he's home all he does is watch tv, or hiding in his room recording ****. I respect that he works, but he's just a horrible role model. He doesnt recognize street names when he's out, only stores, doctors appointments and stuff mom does for him! he's super blind from watching tv he wont admit it. Even a simple application about basic info, i had to fill out for him.
i write all the bills.
Him being stuck at work 12 hours a day could explain why he isnt capable of doing anything else, but its just a plausible excuse. He relies on us too much. even shopping for clothes, he needs my mom to go w/him.
parents were immigrants, so idont blame em for not knowing english.
VCR, DVD player, TV, music player, if it breaks down, it's priority before anything else. Even if he's hungry it wouldnt be as important as his electronics. honestly he doesnt care about anything.

my "mom" is practically man of the house, as she does everything. cooking, cleaning, work, laundry, bank accnts, grocery, everything..u name it. she *****es at him at least 1x every 2 days for something idiotic he did.

With him like this and my mom like that, i think it had a bad effect on me and my bro, and probably now my little sister.
I didnt have a proper role model of how to behave like a man and how to treat a woman. as my dad is very shy and introverted in public, with much low self esteem.

My bro turned out alright as he's the first child, he had all the upper hand experiences. although sometimes, i do find him to be somewhat a nice guy. My younger sister is doing badly in school and spoiled by my mom (unfortunately), cause there's no father figure to be strict with what she can or cant do. I try to be strict with her, but she ignores me.

Cleric has made a good point. children that grow up with lousy parents (or single father) who always fight or project their anger towards their children such as swearing usually, they grow up with an "opposite effect". they are more rebellious, and emotionally immature. they cant show compassion for others as they never experienced it.

 

[Matt Rogers]

I am slowly emerging from my nice guy phase. I could not have asked for nicer parents. I have just always been sensitive with my head in the clouds and at school I used to get picked on and bullied so I learnt to stay in the background, be shy and not cause any trouble or assert myself.

I think very few people have had ideal childhoods, but you have to remember that your past does not equal your future and no matter how much bad programming you have you can change although it is incredibly hard. You just have to try and absorb a new attitude and thought pattern and believe that despite all that has happened to you, you can achieve success in any area of life you want.

 

[PimpNHard]

So true

Cleric I agree with everything you said. But it applies to more than just nice guys. Jerks are the way they are for the same reason. I firmly believe that most people in relationships are still re-living their interaction and results from the relationships with their parents. Nice guys (I was once one too) are ones whos masculinity is inhibited by the way they were raised by their parents. Men who grow up in oppressive situations tend to develop some sort of inferiority complex on some level due to the conditioning by their parents upon the way they express themselves. Jerks are on the opposite end of the scale and were the ones who were spoiled and got their way all the time. They were raised to believe it was their way or no way. That is the whole attitude of a Jerk. That is what gives him the "I don't give a f*ck!" attitude. Jerks develop a superiority complex. We very seldom find the ideal situtation that is actually somewhere in the middle. In the ideal scenario a child would be reared in an environment that produces a well-balanced individual; not too passive, not too aggressive - the perfect DJ!

 

[hsm978]

I had really crappy parents too. They were strict and abusive. My dad especially, he would hit me occasionally, the worst was his verbal abuses. I think he was one of the reason that lead me into a mild depression this year that I have just gotten over. Depression is no joke it can messed up your life. I'm trying to repair the damages I made to my life over the last couple of months.

My parents were very controlling of my life. I think when I moved away to college and try to establish my independent they, especially my mom, would do strange stuff to establish some control over me. For example my parent would call me to tell me to go straight home from school (about a 25 miles ride I know its not that far but still wasted some of my time) for some kind of emergency and when I get there they would tell me that I can go home when it wasn't really that important. I think that was the equivalent of an AFC doing stupid stuff for a girl. God I was pathetic.

I'm acting more assertive and confident now but every once in a while I still feel the depression trying to creep it way back into my head. Sometime I would act like a DJ but everyonce in a while I go back to acting like an AFC. That sucks but at least I'm acting more DJ than I did before.